MattR

@welcome to the forum, @Prime00. My suggestion is ask your scouts what they want to do and give them some options to get away from this troop. Find another troop, start a troop so they can get eagle, ... This situation is toxic.

Wow, the scouts run afoul of a bird sanctuary. So much irony to choose from.

Looking at it from the other side I'm not surprised. They don't have the numbers so, rather than adjust their budget they charge CITs. Summer camp itself is already North of $450. This is why we put on our own summer camp. And the price was very close to $100 per scout and adults paid nothing. That has its own cost, in time, but it was fun.

We rarely have cell service in the mountains. If you have service you're either on a peak or, possibly, at a trailhead. I'm glad they figured it out. Also glad the other hikers came by. A GPS that can mark a point seems like a useful idea. Does all trails allow you to mark a point? Also there are GPSes with emergency satellite communications. We rent them when we go rafting because the canyons are not only far from signals but far from people.

Every. Single. House. Project.

Yes, it's miserable but they got to go home. Nobody got caught in the hurricane. All I found was that 23 people across all of S Korea died due to heat. The scouts did okay. Going to the hospital for dehydration or eating bad food is not fun and a lot of scouts are angry at someone, but that's not the same as trauma. Money can be replaced. I'm not saying all was fun and good. Certainly there are 40000 upset people. I feel sorry for them but this won't get fixed until a lot more is understood. There are a lot of events that led to this mess. The S Korea scouting organization is only one part of it. Something tells me that a month ago a lot of other people knew there was a problem and nothing was done about it. Were there any sort of intermediate check points that had to be met? They said they'd put in trees. That idea could have been checked 6 months ago. The food and toilets could also have been checked. Was there ever a plan B? Was there ever any sort of check that this was a good site to have that many people in August? Apparently not. In other words, the proposal was nothing more than a sales brochure - promise whatever is needed to win the event. Who's fault is that? Certainly S Korea is partly to blame but they were just playing by the rules. What about WOSM? It might be that WOSM doesn't have the budget to oversee such a big project. That's fine. Just make it smaller, or smaller and more often, or just pick one or two sites on each continent and rotate through them, or whatever. But unless people dig into what went wrong this will happen again, and next time it might be something faster moving than a hurricane.

Does anyone know the actual cost of a scout going to the jamboree? I did see that there are 4 different levels - the US and Europe pay the most, poorer countries pay less. I know US scouts paid $6100 but that includes taxes to national, the council and travel. I suspect that much like the Olympics, the WSJ is put on at a loss. I'm honestly not surprised with all the problems. This is a huge undertaking and when the BSA is looked up to as being able, of course the S Korea scout association is in over their heads. It takes time to grow trees! I suspect WOSM is just as guilty (who signed off on the we will grow trees idea?) They asked for inexpensive and they got it. And the prices went up in the meantime. Also, nobody wants to pay for a sewer system for 40000 people that will only be used for 2 weeks. Or a hospital system, or dining, or .... And S Korea couldn't say no. Bottom line, nobody got hurt.

We had a DE, who still works for the council, that is the exception. He could have been a great SM. Very optimistic in spite of serious problems with the CE, put the units first and figured everything else would take care of itself. He's the exception because all the rest were either incompetent, quit in frustration or were pushed out. But back to the board. A board that doesn't fulfill its job combined with a hiring model that filters out the best and then only hires from within is why I will never expect the kind of leadership that could turn this program around.

Didn't you quit?

Welcome to the forum, @Charlie49 . I think you have the record for reviving an old thread. Well done. Anyway, what's the range of dates of the magazines?

I thought there were 40000 participants? All of these numbers are insane. I went to a mini jamboree when I was a scout. There were scouts from all over Europe (where it was located) and bits and pieces of Asia. I don't think there was more than a thousand scouts, but it was really fun. Maybe one jamboree every 6 months and limit it to 5000? Wasn't there a post about all the menus everyone could choose from? 600 calories a day? Maybe I eat too much. Oh, and did anyone notice that the UK scouts paid 2/3 of the US scouts. Ain't nobody getting a refund. I do feel sorry for all of the scouts.

We do a police line to pick up trash but we never threaten anyone. We've never needed to. The worst threat is that the spl walks behind the line and if any garbage is missed then they start over, up to a few times (and that number is unknown to the scouts.) As for punishment on campouts it goes as follows: the scouts try to deal with the problem scout (that takes care of most of it). Next, the spl will tell the SM that a scout is not following the scout law and a discussion ensues about what to do. If the spl says take the trouble maker home then that's what we do. The funny thing is the scouts see this and they all decide to figure out how to solve the problem. We've never actually driven anyone home. Well, except for the scout smoking weed on a campout but that's another story. As for the safety of the scouts, don't be a martyr. What you can do is tell the other parents what you saw and that you're leaving the troop. Let them decide what's right for their kids. Some of them may want to join you in whatever activity you find. Who knows, they may want to start a troop. Best of luck. I really hope you can find a better activity for your son. Whether it's scouts or something else, it doesn't matter.

Heat exhaustion at 93F is most likely from ignoring all the advice to drink enough fluids. It could also be from getting the wrong advice about salty foods and not getting enough electrolytes. It could also be not recognizing the symptoms. In the summer. If a scout starts complaining about having an upset stomach it's a huge red flag to get them out of the heat, sipping water and either eating salty stuff or drinking something with electrolytes. It takes a few hours before they start feeling better but the good news is they typically learn a lesson. Some kids don't like to drink water and they learn it's not a bad thing. In all honesty, 80 scouts out of many thousands is not a surprise to me. Our camp, with 250-300 scouts per week, would have one or two a day dealing with dehydration.

Welcome to the forum, @OscarS

Nobody got hurt, so this falls under the category of a good story. Not sure about the keel, though. Or the captain's pride.

Only the masochistic like conflict. Firing people sucks. Technically, the SM reports to the CC. You don't want to micromanage the SM but there's nothing wrong with finding another. Oh, so you're not alone. Tell us about these others. Can any of them be SM? Are any of them used to big changes? From work or elsewhere? Honestly, all the things you've been talking about lead to one problem - the troop culture. And that only changes with real leadership. That means very little conflict. If someone, and it doesn't have to be you, can sit down with the SM and say the troop culture has to change, this is generally what it needs to move towards, I see your strengths as ..., are you interested, do you want to talk, or, do you want to step down? People that are good managers can do this. It's not about why the SM is doing a lousy job, it's about what the troop culture is going to be. Ideally the SM can decide that he wants a change (either a change in how things are done or he steps down). You have a bunch of good ideas. What you need now are people that can help you turn those ideas into reality. If you don't want to have a tough talk with the SM but someone else says, sure I can do that, then use their strengths. If you find someone that likes your ideas, likes camping with the scouts but is unsure about being an SM, then just keep talking up your vision until they see that maybe they would do okay as SM. It's not about conflict, it's about relentless optimism. Something will work, you just keep trying until you find it.

I looked at his name tag ... I don't know what to say.

@fred8033 , maybe your wife's book group could run the troop? Just joking, but ... would they? I agree with you mostly. I encourage scouts to find the few fun requirements in any MB, that actually involve doing something, and making a meeting or campout out of those. Leave the describe, discuss, explain requirements for those scouts that want it. It doesn't always work but it gets them thinking about challenging activities. @5thGenTexan , I have to ask, why are you still in that troop? Uniforms, meetings, campouts; it seems that everything is a wreck. You have good ideas and you're ignored. It seems to me that you aren't finding any joy in this. Is your son finding any joy in the troop? That's the only thing I can think of that's keeping you there. I ask because I get frustrated as well. And then out of nowhere things come together, magic blooms, the scouts and adults do great and I decide I can keep at it.

Sure, but that has nothing to do with taking on the responsibility of owning a unit. I'm disappointed with the drop in charters as well, but I'm not surprised. Independent of monetary liability the COs are realizing they're responsible and they don't have the resources to oversee a scout program. Most churches are losing members. They don't have volunteers to run their own programs much less a scout unit. I'm hoping people quite a bit younger than I have the energy and ideas to make things whole again. Scouts is a great idea, it just needs a vision of how to work in the environment we find ourselves.

Great idea!

I'd like a backpack with wings. It sounds like a great premise for a skit, but maybe a bit esoteric and confusing for a scout camp statue. My first thought was "the girl has eagle wings?" When a plaque is needed to explain the art then maybe the art isn't working so well.

Bring a school bus with all your friends? But yes, it's unfortunate that the BSA is going through this denial phase that things have changed and they'll have to change with it.

<thread stealing> Check out Major League Baseball. Any coach or manager that steps onto the field has to wear a uniform. BTW, there's a difference between a MLB manager and coach Yes, a minor edit to your post. Just pointing out an unusual American custom. I like that one. </thread stealing>

Try divying up responsibilities. When the game is swarm ball and everyone decides and does everything together then most watch while a few actually get anything done. If there's a duty roster or multiple things to do at the same time then more scouts will be getting things done and the shy scouts will have to help out. So, split up making menus from figuring out gear, for example.

About a month ago someone left a note on my door, rang the bell and left. The dog went crazy, I found the note, read it, and immediately called the scout that left it. He was my first scout that joined, some 18 years ago. The note was a thank you for helping him through some good and bad times. He very gently asked if I'd like to have a beer with him and I said absolutely. Long story short about 30 scouts and scouters from the past 25 years got together last night at a favorite brewery. It was fun. It was also better than that. There were a few scouts I didn't recognize until a certain phrase, tone of voice or look of the eye gave them away. I gave one of them a ride home and he finally opened up and apologized for being such a pain when he was a scout. I laughed. A few thanked me for the tough love. We told lots of stories and could finally fill in some details that we couldn't mention before because the scouts didn't want the adults to know or vice-versa. The scouts all thanked me for what I'd done for them years ago but it was really I that was thankful for what they all did for me last night. I stepped down as SM about a year before Covid started. Then there was the bankruptcy. It's been lousy and I've been frustrated and disappointed. Fewer volunteers, fewer scouts, less mature scouts, no guidance from national. But ... maybe there's a way for me to accept a new normal and get back to helping youth gain some fond memories forged in the outdoors.