MattR

This is kind of amusing. I see angry people turn any group toxic, but their wealth and race don't really have much to do with it. If there's one common thread to toxicity in my district it's the council exec. But I think it's less toxicity and more good old fashioned burnout. Our council and district volunteers get along with each other.

This all assumes you have more volunteers than open positions. "We haven't had that spirit here since 1969."

This just reminds me of the org charts I used to see when nobody really had any good ideas - just shuffle and hope. It's sort of vision lite: we kinda know what the problems are but we really have no ideas on how to solve them. If national really had ideas then wouldn't this be reflected in the organization? Not only that but this reeks of matrix management. Since our council's membership has been dropping will our council membership lead be replaced? If, more likely, all the council memberships have been dropping is it time to admit the territory membership lead hasn't a clue? This reminds me of the plan that said membership would drop again this year but would then start going up, for the first time in 50 some years?

Use the adults as taste testers. If they don't die then let the scouts have some. 😀

I absolutely agree. Sports can also teach fair play and how to lose well, if the adults understand that it's an important skill to teach. But in scouting there's not agreement about what the game even is. The outdoors is to scouting what the rule book is to sports. And if done right, the patrol method is to scouting what fair play and honor is to sports. Any parent understands this about sports. I'm not sure many know all this about scouting. I think burnout is an important subject that is not just about parents. Kids get tired of all these activities as well. I was thinking of cub scouts and one thing that would have kept it fun would just be to make each rank a 4 month season and give the scouts a break for the other 8 months a year. A parent that only had to plan a 3rd as much time would have a much easier time and the scouts wouldn't get bored of doing the same things over and over. Just my opinion, but the underlying issue seems to be about money. My council says it costs $600/scout/year, whether it's a 4 month year or a 12 month year. So the focus seems to be more on justifying that price than anything else. And that includes what you call the noble mission of scouts.

Pushing @Eagledad's idea, how about getting adults from different districts to work together to run events for patrols? Or organize them? Have a campfire just for adults and, again, mix up the adults from different districts and have them put on skits. That could be fun for the scouts as well.

I can see that vision. 😀 As you have described the goal, vision and mission elsewhere, I think it's great. The challenge I see is translating that into a program that is really simple for the new person, adult or youth, to understand and implement. A sport, for example, is simple. Learn the rules and skills, play the game. It might not be perfect but as a first cut it will get the youth going in the right direction. In scouting, if you ask someone what the game is the odds are they'll look at you funny. If the game is the outdoors then why do we spend so much time indoors doing schoolwork? As an example I just saw my troop spend 3 meetings doing bridges. They learned about bridges, they built bridges and there was some competition related to bridges. This did not lead to an outdoor activity but they said they had fun. However, if you watched this I'm not sure you could identify the game. I don't think it's so much that the kids can't focus as the adults can't focus - or maybe just can't see the game. I would much rather see a troop say our game is the outdoors but it's hard camping from Thanksgiving to March so during that time we will have a lighter schedule that focusses on service to our community (except for one really cold campout 😀). In other words, don't have meetings just to fill time. If you're not playing the game then don't take up people's time.

Anyone got the cliff notes version? Kind of brings back memories of Pip.

As a teenager I certainly had those tendencies as well. I don't think this is a generational thing so much as a growing up thing.

Back to the future.

This looks like 2 different subjects. One is about the desired program and the other is making changes if a unit isn't doing that program. To me, a program that's defined by how much advancement is done is the problem and not necessarily changing leadership. If the program was defined as fun in the outdoors and some unit was solely running advancement then maybe working with the leadership wouldn't be so bad. However, there really is no description of the program, so jte is all there is.

I've never even gone to the reddit website. Is the BSA forum (sub reddit, I guess) officially BSA, tightly associated, or is it more like here with a bunch of volunteer moderators?

Welcome to the forum, @100thEagleScout

Try this thread, last post: And yes, a bit hidden, so that just means lots of people get bit by this and, well, we're not angry. This was put in because sarcasm rarely moves any discussion forward.

I beat you to it. Per forum rules, posting media that has nothing to do with the topic will be removed.

Do a search on "bsa scout council Los Angeles or OC" and find their websites.. Councils are broken into districts and the council website should have calendars and contacts for the districts. Good luck. Sounds fun

I sure don't see how it helps his clients or his place "at the table. "

Maybe we can get them to come forward and introduce themselves. I agree that a YP plan could, if it's done right, help in so many ways, but the details are likely difficult. BSA's program quality has always been an afterthought and if there's one thing I've learned about quality it's that it has to be a driving factor in most decisions. Whether it's manufacturing, software, youth protection or the patrol method, quality has to be front and center. It's a mindset of constant improvement. The current YP program doesn't have this. JTE is an attempt at improving program quality but there's nothing that suggests it has helped. Understanding why could help with improving both YP and program quality. That's my 2 cents for national and the TCC. If either has received this message then please create an account with a name based on the scout song "one fat hen and a couple of ducks." Your mission, should you decide to accept it ....

Who knows, maybe they're wasting too much time glued to scouter.com to find out what's going on.

I hope that any plan includes how far scouts are from these camps and how many scouts they can hold. The furthest council camp from my house is about 7 hrs and it's mostly interstate.

How can you tell if it's restricted? I couldn't find the description of letter codes that went with each camp.

I wish I could understand how he did that. If there's anything that could help scouting it would be to replicate that here. There have been attempts in the BSA but most have failed.

I understand that part. It's the evidence I'm wondering about. What's the proof that the BSA accepted false claims, given that they did complain about the intake process.

What do you mean by "knocking"? Punishment for a crime? Are you saying there should be no punishment for the crimes? My guess is your fear is that this will destroy scouting? If so, that's a very different topic. This one sounds like a statistical argument as to why the whole thing should be dropped. Getting back to my human dignity argument so many pages ago, that's not anything I'd get behind.

Is there any explanation as to why Century made this accusation? Standalone, it sounds far fetched.