MattR

Touched a nerve I see. Is "you have no integrity to accuse him the way you have, Mr Boy Scout Skeptic" supposed to be an insult? Either way, if you want to defend Mr Kosnoff and explain why he doesn't want to burn the BSA to the ground then enlighten us, but insulting forum members isn't helping.

Welcome to the forum, @Needhelp434. I can think of much worse mistakes to have made. I'd suggest talking to the person that was supposed to sign it. You may be at their mercy but assuming there was nothing unusual about your fundraising they may give you a pass. As usual, prepare for the worst but stay optimistic.

Maybe gear is like computer storage. The more you have the more you need. As a scout, we didn't have patrol boxes or trailers. We divided up what we needed for a campout, everyone took their share. We could carry our gear, even though it often wasn't far. I tried going back to that model when I was SM but it was a battle. "We have a big trailer and lots of Suburbans, why make the scouts work hard? Bring everything!"

I like the poster. Rude and mean are great opportunities for growth, so don't throw the baby out with the bath water. My experience with scouts is that rude and mean are often in context where there's conflict between scouts. Showing them how to deal with the conflict has been more productive than focusing on rude and mean. I talked to a scout once about standing up to bullies and his response was enlightening. He said that there was very little to no bullying at his school and there was a lot more fuss about it by the adults than warranted. This was a fairly shy scout in a large public high school. I'm not saying it's not worse elsewhere. I'm not even saying that students don't have their share of problems. But maybe it's not bullying. Maybe it's dysfunctional families and too little social development. Maybe youth need more opportunities to fail and learn how to interact with others and not less. Maybe they need something like scouting more than playing video games. I look at the growth and maturity of both scouts and others and one common situation is some people that spent a lot of time playing video games have really poor social skills, so bad that they're struggling with careers and relationships. I'm thankful there were no video games when I grew up. We sat around and had to figure it out. And more than one friend told me I was a dumb ass when I was. And it hurt, but I learned something.

This is one of the best observations I've seen. As there isn't enough money to cover typical payouts, all of the discussion about how to compute a final amount is only good for showing that there isn't enough money to go around. Past that, the only measure is "pain" to the debtors. I suspect it's the unwritten rule in the room, at least for the judge, and all the details are just a way to talk about what they can in a bankruptcy case - money - while the underlying discussion is about pain. I'm not sure why the claimants don't just bring it up directly. As for the renewed pain of the victims, I'm sorry to hear that.

The Moderators work in mysterious ways.

I think there are some good ideas. Games that need some of those skills, rather than artificially wedged in are better. I would encourage the scouts have time to both practice those skills and working with younger scouts to ensure they know the skills. You might call it teaching the skills but they'll call it a competitive advantage. Finally, please call the youth "scouts" and not kids. I don't know of any 15 to 17 year old scouts that will take kindly to being called a kid.

Sounds the same as our situation. We asked for the ein number and was told we can't use it because we're not part of the church. We were always told that we were lucky because we are the first outside group to get the service we have. I want to push for them to use the facility use charter. My guess is the committee will squash that idea.

Or, it looks like buying a car. Maybe they're just haggling over a price. It looks to me both sides have threatened to walk away, and everyone knows that's bad for their side.

Okay everyone, I asked nicely before. If this thread continues to be bankruptcy part 5b - the OA, then maybe it's time to lock it as it's nothing that hasn't been hashed out elsewhere. If you want to talk about CSA in the OA, then go ahead. If it's not specific to the OA and why you won't participate in the OA, then please take the conversation to one of the hundreds of pages that have already covered it.

Getting back to the OP, my experience with the OA has been fairly neutral. It has helped a few scouts but most don't get much out of it. Unfortunately, it has become nothing but cheap labor for the camps and AOL ceremonies. That said, I like the idea of a place for scouts to up their game and, more importantly, bring that back to their troops. Done right that might really help smaller units and complement nylt.

Like eradicating smallpox? @RichardB, I appreciate that you're asking. Unfortunately, this topic has been politicized and is pretty much toxic. I like the "encourage you to talk to your physician" approach. I'd also explicitly add that units can set their own standards. As much as people are afraid of losing membership over such a mandate, my council is losing quite a bit of membership due to the virus. My district has lost at least half of its packs since covid hit. People are limiting their contact with groups and scouts isn't that high a priority. Until this virus is under control there will be membership loss in my district. Good luck. This is one decision where I'm glad I don't have to be the bad guy.

Putting on my moderator hat here. Those using scatological terms to describe plans need to stop. The lawyers are doing there job.

I appreciate your putting in all the details, but there's no mention of YP or any other non monetary changes. So why not just get everyone in a room, hammer it all out, and put up a plan that has a chance of being accepted? I appreciate that it's iterative but why not work multiple sections at the same time? This whole process has been piecemeal with lots of gnashing of teeth in between. Step 1 was just national. Teeth gnashing was TCC saying no way, councils are not independent. Step 2 was national & councils. Gnashing was throwing insurance companies and COs under the bus. Step 3 was national, councils & insurance companies. Gnashing was COs. Step 4 is national, councils, insurance companies & COs. I assume step 5 will include structural changes? The bsa is either inept or is controlling the discussion.

@Oldscout448, I'm happy for you. It sounds like you had a great experience in the OA and it must have been a well run lodge. I wish more were run like that and more people would volunteer. That just doesn't seem to be in the cards right now.

@Armymutt, we do something similar to what you want with a few exceptions. We ask that every family does something for our troop. It can be a couple of hours once a year, it can be quarterly or monthly. We make a list and have a sign up night. If we get half the families to actually help out, it's a win. Some (many?) parents are shy because they don't understand what it is they're asked to do. So we try to pair them up with someone that's done it before. I saw another pack that was one of the best run in the district. They did such a great job everyone was afraid to fill their shoes. It folded right after that group of leaders all aged out. They couldn't find anyone to step up. So, I'd suggest two things. First, think about every parent and identify those that could help, given the right circumstances, and get them together. Then, ask them what they need to be successful after you leave. Don't give them the option of bailing. The pack will continue, here are the jobs that need filling, find multiple people per job and find out what their fears are about doing them. Tell them it doesn't need to be perfect. If the scouts have fun then it's a win. If you invite everyone and only ten parents show up then you're in a better position than you're in now. Make it fun. Do your best. Nothing else matters.

Why do I have a hunch the person that wrote that list just wrote down what he had done in the past month. And the guy that wrote the paragraph about any repair had recently fixed a toilet. I'm doing window trim now so wood skills are high this month. I'd say anything that is in the G2SS is okay. Have fun and just remember, only you know where the goobers are.

Welcome, @LOI47_Sigma. It really depends on what type of Nordic rune it is. Is it right handed or left handed?

When you say you pasted the photo did you use the "Add Files" button in the forum post editor? That's what I used and it worked fine. Either way, it looks like you got it posted.

Is this a browser or OS issue?

Here's a wedding picture of my garbage cans. This is a .jpg. So, what are the file extensions of the images you want to upload? BTW, it may be case sensitive, so .jpg is okay but .JPG is not.

600 hundred = 600x100 = 60,000 months. But you're right in one way. If I have to explain the punch line then it's a lousy joke.

Are we sure about this? 600 hundred months is 5000 years.

No surprise there. I suspect you took my description a little to literally. If the words tcc, stang, kossnoff, rsa, omni, the names of the insurance companies, the judge's name, any dates the case must abide by or plans 1 through 5, put it here. I'm sure I'm missing a lot but will try and keep a list. Honestly, I suspect a lot of people are lurking here because this thread is the best analysis of this case. I suspect there are a few CEs following this as it's the best source of information around. Those not reading this are posting comments like "there's been a deal made and so ...." So, for the most part, this thread is related to the facts and expert opinions of this case. There will always be grey areas but I hope this helps.

@CynicalScouter, I keep moving your posts. Change threads