MattR

When I was in high school way back when and didn't understand a word I was told to look it up in the dictionary. That was before the internet and acronyms. Now there's Google. What's great now is you get the story of where a word came from. In this case it was the response of a US pilot during the Vietnam War after he was told he was being sent in as bait to find where the SAMs were being launched from. BTW, a SAM is a surface to air missile.

A few points that are about setting expectations: Since you talked to the dad and money apparently is not an issue, I'd give him a firm date, before the awards are presented, that the money is due. If you don't get it in time then call the dad and let him know so he doesn't bring his child, and don't award the bling. Is it understood that scouts must sell popcorn? If not then you shouldn't hold it against the scout or family when they don't sell any. All I'm saying is make the expectations clear. And then follow through. I've seen adults drive themselves crazy not being clear or consistent. I'm not saying don't try to understand when a family has a problem because your rules are strict, but being clear about expectations will make it easier for you to be helpful when needed. You won't be angry.

I would not make a scene. Is it possible they don't have the money? Or maybe it's something else that's completely innocuous. I would talk to them, privately.

I went and looked and it appears there is also a way to submit what they're calling a Master Ballot, or a spread sheet with a collection of ballots. Search the pdf mentioned above. Also, ballots can be submitted by mail, overnight, and personal delivery. This is from page 2 of the pdf: It sounds like the app is just a way to fill in the spreadsheet of a master ballot. It could also be a way to control the messaging. Still, something as important as this? I'd be hesitant about an app unless it's been well tested.

Let's stand back a bit. This is to everyone and nobody in particular (as I've already talked to some of you in particular). The bankruptcy seems to be in a sit and wait for the vote phase. Only there's a lot of not sitting and waiting. Not just here. There are a lot of people trying to sway the vote and that's fine. However, this is not politics as usual as personal attacks are not allowed on this forum. While there are some things from the BSA that I don't defend, the Scout Law will be defended. Our character is all that we can control and attacking someone else's character is nothing but hubris, we all have faults. I really have no idea if attacking someone's character is allowed in court but it's not allowed here. This is also not Twitter, you can't just flame people. And yet, you can still talk about a lot of things that you disagree with. If you think this guy is lying and giving a false impression in order to sway votes then bring up what he's omitted and gotten wrong. Keep him out of it. Talk about his ideas rather than his personality. Make your case in a professional way. I realize It's difficult to write concise, to the point and without using personal attacks but you will have a better argument and that will bring your side more votes. Do your best.

Life is sweet when you let it be.

@ThenNow please stop with the scat references.

Welcome to the forum, @sheryl9407

From what I'm seeing most units have a lot of other stuff on their plates and likely don't know about the bankruptcy. Many units are doing nothing right now. Its more about covid than bankruptcy.

Take care, I can see how that might have been overwhelming to you and many others. When I was SM I found that validating a scout's struggle was usually more powerful than trying to help them solve it. You and all the other victims deserve that validation. Not at all. It's why I said it depends on one's opinion before one heard it. If the headlines last more than a few days I'll be surprised. It's not that I don't think this is important. From my point of view this illustrates what is wrong with the BSA across the board. The BSA is as nimble as a ruptured turtle. Sclerotic and inbred comes to mind. There are lots of amazing people with great ideas and passion but I suspect they get eaten alive by the turf wars. They hired a really great guy in Mr Johnson and I suspect they just let him go free in an environment where the only measure of success is how many people you have under you. It's not that nobody cares about safety, they all care about safety, but they care about their fiefdoms more. I can't prove this but I've seen it elsewhere. I used to work in the DoE and the BSA is a mom and pop shop by comparison. The common mantra is my idea is better than sliced bread and everything else sucks. Tear down everything else while promoting your own shiny object. My guess is that's what happened to Mr Johnson. This certainly doesn't absolve the BSA in my opinion, it's just what I expect happened. But to dig a bit deeper into what was on that video: It was missing numbers for one. How much abuse is currently happening is the number I'd like to see. When the BSA says YP has never been better they might be right. But Mr Johnson was saying it could be better. How much better is the question. Second, everyone in that video was defending the mission of the BSA. Everyone said it was a good program worth saving. This was not a burn it to the ground, ch 7 presentation. Honestly, if someone asked me what to do with the BSA I'd be focusing on changing the culture. YP is clearly the biggest issue but the same problems impact the program, training, retention, etc. The BSA can either grow from this or continue to rot in its rut. Who will lead that and what it will take to get them to lead is another big question, and my future involvement in the BSA depends on what I see on that.

Depends what people's opinions were before. For me, the conference listed changes to YP and tried to paint a picture of clumsy leadership. The changes seemed good to me and might be a bit more detailed than what the TCC wants. As for clumsy leadership, the BSA hired one great person but, due to their constant lack of focus on what's important, they dropped the ball. There were no numbers about how bad it is now, so I don't see that the sky is falling. If anything, that group of speakers believed in the mission of the BSA. Other than YP changes, the only suggestion I took was a change in leadership. But, that's my bias so maybe I'm just seeing what I want, just like everyone else.

Not too long ago our camps all made a profit. Management used that to fund other council activities and the camps fell into disrepair. I think there is a need for the camps. It's much easier for troops to put on a full program with healthy camps. Furthermore, when we have gone to public campsites we have to deal with drunks, idiots with guns and other things where the sheriff is called. Besides, the scouts can play night games and not worry about bothering neighbors. The question seems to be how many camps are needed. The qualitative arguments are worthless. Until someone can define how many acres are needed to support a scout without stressing people and property, this will just be a way for both sides to get angry.

Speaking of which, let's be courteous. It is a compensation plan. You may not like it, but that doesn't mean they don't believe it's just.

Thank you for sharing. It certainly is horrendous that multiple safeguards failed. An abuser was not removed. The council covered it up. The police gave up to quickly. I keep saying this and I'll say it again. The 82k cases contain a lot of information. It should be analyzed and understood. It would benefit the abused, the BSA, future scouts and society as a whole.

Let me see: "scouts celebrate lots of camping" leads to a fight about about over achieving youth, pushy leaders and false idols. "scouts go to town meeting" leads to a fight over culture war issues. I went to a memorial service yesterday for a scouter that spent decades volunteering. The service was the most boring service I'd ever seen and all I could think was the minister must have been a friend of the family and that the family was just being courteous. The man that died sure was. Half the people at the service were scouters. We were polite and afterwards we gathered and started telling stories about the man that recently passed. It was bittersweet. It's a good thing this story doesn't end up in the paper as I'd hate to see how this forum would turn it into an argument.

Fair enough. Given that you don't know your best bet is to first ask your patrol leader. If he can tell you then you have your answer. If he doesn't know then you could suggest he ask the senior patrol leader. If your patrol leader is lazy and won't ask your SPL then you certainly should go ask. Again, if the SPL doesn't answer your question then it's time to go for gold, ask your scout master. Just remember, since you're not sure what type of rune it is, you need to go through this process of asking your PL, SPL, and then SM. Good luck. Let us know what you find out. BTW, thanks for getting back to me.

This is not helping. Done right, this would be good. My dad was invited to a school in Germany where he grew up to talk to kids about what he lived through. In all honesty, it did him at least as much good as the students.

Until there's a discussion as to how their money is spent and how much is spent, i.e., how much they need to survive, arguing about percentages is meaningless. The BSA/councils are guilty of not describing their finances and the claimants are guilty of ignoring the fact that they can never get all the money they'd like to get. Right now there's no such thing as fair. This is mostly people just trying to skew the vote to their advantage. To what ends we'll have to wait and see.

Tetanus is also required every 10 years so you do have a record of it. Call your doctor.

I'm not talking about using quality tools. I'm talking about having a group of people whose focus is program quality and they have a respected position at the table - someone that will push patrol method and be respected, for example.

It reminds me of many other similar conflicts that organizations have. Developing software and testing software require different mindsets. One can do both but the changeover from one to the other is not easy. There needs to be respect for both sides. When one gets cheated (and it's always the one furthest from sales) it harms the product. Toyota has quality above features and they charge a premium for that. It would be great if the bsa understood this concept. It might be painful at first but they'd be in a much stronger position if quality had more people's attention. YP or program, it should all be important.

Taking over? Sounds like it already took over for you. Ask your wife. I know of many people that got in too deep, never said no, got burned out and then got angry. They left scouts, never to help out again and are bitter as well. To be honest, I've seen this often enough that I've come to the conclusion that there's something wrong with the program. It takes too many adults to make it work.

A few observations: They're now haggling. The result will be somewhere between the extremes. If @CynicalScouter is correct it will be between $0.5B and $1.5B from the councils. Next, the discussion about how much a council needs is not quantitative and I wonder if that has to do with the notorious lack of transparency. Finally, I don't see any teamwork between councils. I'm not sure if that's the plan or if it's even possible given all the complexity, but if it continues this way then the poorer councils will just get more so.

Good point. I didn't even look at whatever caused this. Either way, insulting people in this discussion is not acceptable. At the same time, calling someone a lying liar ... made me laugh (just because of the grammar). However, we'll remove that post. In the meantime, let's get back to discussing ideas and not personalities.

Welcome to the forum, @UpstateNYCC I can't answer your question. It's a sorry mess and proof to me that Eagle has been over sold. The only option I can think of is talking to the scout and asking him what he thinks the right thing to do is. He might have matured enough to realize what was wrong. If so, he's learned a lot. If not, eagle won't bring him any good.