AZMike

It's a crazy new world in which we now live. Guerlain is a poster-child for progressive spite and incoherence. He doesn't want the BSA to be able to sell water, but reacts with anger when the BSA then declines to pick up the trash left by his citizens: "They went from teaching the boys discrimination to also teaching them spite," said Guerlain, who called the decision not to volunteer at the event a "spiteful move" on the part of local Boy Scout leaders. (Translated: "You are not welcome to participate in this event, but how dare you decline to pick up our trash after the event!")

O Produce a list which claims to list the names of my Democratic opponent's communist masters in the CPUSA. O Demand to know why my opponent hates America.

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Some of the ad-libbed prayers you hear from Chaplain's Aides, while heartfelt and sincere, can be pretty interesting. "Please let us all earn our merit badges and advancements, and don't let any of us die on the canoe trip" is one I remember.

Well, Stosh, He did tell us how He wanted us to pray, and gave us a specific prayer.

Nice.

Very true. The Boy's Club in my neighborhood when I was a kid required boys to swim in the nude, no bathing suits were allowed. My friend wanted me to come with him and check it out, but when I heard that, I wanted no part of it. It still seems creepy to me, but that was a common practice in that era (and still was, until fairly recently in some places in men-only clubs - the Harvard Athletic Club had the same requirement in its (adult) pool facility, and used that as one of its arguments why women should not be allowed in when it was taken to court - leading Dick Cavett to suggest they rename it the "Harvard Athletic and Nude Male Swimming Society." The YMCA also enforced a no-bathing-suits rule for males, and an article on the subject noted that the American Public Health Association mandated the rule from 1926 until 1962, and thousands of American high schools had the same rule. At the time, it was said to be more hygienic, or something. I never understood why it would be promoted by anyone other than pederasts, but apparently it was because the old bathing suits were made with wool up until the 1920s, and wool fibers would clog up the pool filtration system, and because life guards were supposed to conduct a visual hygiene check of all swimmers, and make sure no one with open wounds or signs of an STD got into the pool. It was also suggested that swimming nude would build character, in some unexplainable way.

Worth more than that. That is a role the BSA should be assuming now, and should advocate for greater child-protection laws. There is still a lot that needs to be changed.

Not sure how accurate the valuation is on Antiques Roadshow is, but...http://www.aol.com/article/2014/06/17/antiques-roadshow-boy-scout-items-worth-small-fortune/20913962/

One other interesting thing from looking at those old reports: Those who argue for inclusion of homosexual men as Boy Scout adult leaders often claim that the real danger to boys in the Scouts is not from homosexuals, but from heterosexuals (presumably, heterosexual men who want to have sex with boys.) So the argument (which has been made repeatedly on this forum and others) is that bisexual men are the real danger to boys - superficially heterosexual men who are married and have children but secretly want to have sex with boys. (Although this tortured logic, and political correctness, means they can't use the term "bisexual," as they are the "B" in LGBT. ) Looking through those reports, there would seem to be instead a preponderance of single men without children among the ranks of molesters, as Chalmers was. Obviously, most single, childless adult leaders are clearly NOT molesters. But it would be reasonable to make the assumption that there are a larger number of homosexuals within that demographic, than there are among married (to a woman) men with children. There is actually a lot of info in the reports worth mining for lessons learned - I don't know if anyone has done that other than internally within BSA headquarters for risk factors.

Holder, a man who never himself found a need to serve in the military, may be surprised to learn that the military services of the United States do not allow the "T" in LGBT to serve in the military.

Challberg's original report in the BSA blacklist file is available for viewing here: http://documents.latimes.com/william-j-challberg/ You can pull up all the released files by area and read the original BSA reports here: http://spreadsheets.latimes.com/boyscouts-cases/ It's pretty depressing reading, but probably essential if you're a youth leader. Yeah, this shoud have been reported to the police as soon as possible. He was inviting boys to his place, showing gay porn to boys, touching them, and finally molesting them. The problem with many of the cases involving scout leaders, teachers, and clergy in that era is that deference - perhaps too much deference - was paid to the victims' family in reporting. I can easily see how the family might have talked to the boy, who would have felt embarassment and shame at what happened and would probably have said he didn't want it to be made public, and the family would decide not to file a police report if the BSA was going to expel him. As a result, the boy carries that unresolved issue for years, and even worse, other victims are created later. As disclosure was usually made after some time had elapsed, there would likely not have been medical forensic evidence, and the case could have devolved to conflicting statements. Even if the police wanted to prosecute, the local prosecutor could have declined based on lack of corpus. Prosecutors are ethically bound by their bar association rules not to charge a case if they don't have a reasonable belief they can win, and many use that as an excuse to bail. It's easier now to charge a case, as we have greater public awareness, better victim service specialists, better forensic evidence and use of the SANE medical protocol for sexual assault examinations, far better mandated interview protocols for juvenile victims, often better legal protections for victims who are minors, far heavier sentences in many jurisdictions (in Arizona, where this happened, there is a 105 year sentencing minimum for each count of sexual contact with a minor under 15, and each charge is stacked, not served concurrently) which leads to far more common acceptance of a plea and often spares the victim the need to testify, and due to the rise of the Digital Age, a more easily found electronic trail that can often be used as evidence.

More on this case came out today: The original complaint was filed with the Boy Scouts of America nearly 30 years ago, but it took a comprehensive review from national Scout leaders in October 2013 to rediscover the allegations against William Challberg, and less than a year later, the 65-year-old Phoenix man was in custody on suspicion of molesting boys decades earlier, according to court records. Phoenix investigators believe there could be more victims who have not come forward. Challberg was arrested Thursday on more than two dozen sex-crime allegations some of which took place in his Phoenix home during a 20-year period, according to police. But court documents released Friday morning detail the drug-and-alcohol fueled encounters Challberg had with his victims, and Challberg's abuse of his position as a trusted scout leader, according to court documents. The victim and his father filed a written complaint with Boy Scouts of America in 1986, according to a police statement. They did not file a separate complaint with Phoenix police. The victim, who is now 45, told police he met Challberg at a Boy Scouts conference in New Jersey in 1983. The victim told police Challberg molested him when he was 14 years old at a Boy Scouts activity in Phoenix, according to court documents. The same day, Challberg allegedly took the victim to his home and showed him pornographic movies and engaged in sexual activity in front of the teen, according to court records. The victim also told police that Challberg engaged in sexual conduct with him inside of a bus in downtown Phoenix. Challberg was a bus driver for Veolia Transportation at the time. Challberg also asked the victim to bring other boys to his house, according to court records. The victim brought one friend to Challberg's home and upon learning that the friend died of AIDS as an adult, Challberg allegedly sent the victim a letter asking him to get checked for AIDS, court documents show. The victim said the last time Challberg sexually abused him was when he was about 16, when Challberg forcefully engaged in sexual activity with him, according to police documents. Upon interviewing the victim, police identified several other victims. A second man told police that when he was between 13 and 14 years old, he was at Challberg's home drinking beer and smoking marijuana when Challberg molested him, police records show. The boy and Challberg allegedly engaged in sexual conduct on multiple occasions, including during a trip to a lake in Peoria, according to court documents. The second victim also alleged Challberg recorded him engaging in sexual activity and allowed him to watch the recording. A third boy, who was friends with the second victim, told police Challberg would offer him beer or money for beer in exchange for sexual conduct, but he would always decline, according to police records. He also told investigators Challberg would invite him and the second victim to watch pornographic material and asked to videotape them. A fourth boy told police he lived in the same neighborhood as Challberg, and that Challberg would give him and his younger brother pornographic material, according to court documents. Challberg also showed the fourth victim a home video of him engaging in sexual conduct with a young male, according to court documents. Challberg is being held without bond because of the nature of the charges. http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/...abrk/10460051/

Here's the relevant quote: http://books.google.com/books?id=DV8NvhEX2LYC&pg=PA65&lpg=PA65&dq=Am+I+a+religious+man?+I%27ll+have+to+let+someone+else+judge+that.+I%27m+a+firm+believer+in+the+Kingdom+of+God,+but+I+don%27t+know+about+the+afterlife&source=bl&ots=F9-dwalDRc&sig=_h0h5V1VwOb_V9xbPoUfvlK_wn8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=LoJUUfuRNa_a2wW344GABg&ved=0CDYQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=Am%20I%20a%20religious%20man%3F%20I'll%20have%20to%20let%20someone%20else%20judge%20that.%20I'm%20a%20firm%20believer%20in%20the%20Kingdom%20of%20God%2C%20but%20I%20don't%20know%20about%20the%20afterlife&f=false

A horrible story on many levels. http://www.azfamily.com/news/Former-...262950661.html http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/...ions/10401873/ It is good that the BSA is reviewing the old files to establish whether any allegations from the past (Challberg was one of the blacklisted former leaders) were not reported to the police at the time. It's sad that it took so long to come to light. One would hope that this would be handled differently today. It's also of concern that one of the couple continued to seek employment with access to young boys, as a school bus driver.

That would correlate with his increasing depression and despondency in his later life. However, that quote was from about 1995. One of the last quotes we have from him on religion is his statement that "I firmly believe in the Kingdom of God," so although he had been through the horrors of WWII, a stroke, a failed marriage, a medical condition that made him unable to keep drawing, colon cancer, and what sounds like clinical life-long depression, he retained a faith in God although he expressed a dislike for the evangelism that characterized his earlier denomination, The Church of God. His 2nd wife, who probably knew him better than you or I, Merlyn, described his religious views thus: I think that he was a deeply thoughtful and spiritual man. Sparky was not the sort of person who would say "oh that's God's will" or "God will take care of it." I think to him that was an easy statement, and he thought that God was much more complicated. When he came back from the army he was very lonely. His mother had died and he was invited to church by a pastor who had prepared his mother's service from the Church of God. Sparky's father was worried about him and was talking to the pastor and so the pastor invited Sparky to come to church. So Sparky went to church, joined the youth group and for a good 4-5 years he went to Bible study and went to church 3 times a week (2 Bible studies, 1 service). He said he had read the Bible through three times and taught Sunday school. He was always looking for what those passages REALLY Might have meant. Some of his discussions with priests and ministers were so interesting because he wanted to find out what these people (who he thought were more educated than he) thought. When he taught Sunday school, he would never tell people what to believe. God was very important to him, but in a very deep way, in a very mysterious way

That Merlyn! He's quite the scamp.

Did you know Charlie Schulz was one of the liberators of Dachau in WWII?

WASHINGTON  Taking aim at the Boy Scouts of America's continuing ban on gay adult leaders, Attorney General Eric Holder said Tuesday that the prohibition perpetuates "the worst kind of stereotypes.'' "It's a relic of an age of prejudice and insufficient understanding,'' the attorney general said Tuesday evening to Lambda Legal, an advocacy group for LGBT rights. Referring to the group's work a decade ago to challenge the termination of a gay assistant scoutmaster, Holder said that "too many organizations, policies and practices that discriminate against LGBT individuals remain persistent concerns.'' "Unfortunately, the continuation of a policy that discriminates against gay adult leaders – by an iconic American institution – only preserves and perpetuates the worst kind of stereotypes,'' he said. Last year, the Boy Scouts of America's national council voted to allow openly gay youths to join the organization. But the council maintained its prohibition on gay adult leaders. Former Defense secretary Robert Gates, in an interview last month with the Associated Press after taking over as BSA president, said he would have allowed gay adult leaders but accepted the vote of the council. "We recognize there are many opinions on these matters,'' the BSA said in a written statement, referring to Gates' recent remarks. "The Boy Scouts of America believes that to disagree does not mean to disrespect, we remain focused on delivering the nation's foremost youth development program.'' Yet Holder said that just as gay men and women "put their lives on the line as members of America's armed services...then then surely they are fit to mentor, to teach, and to serve as role models for the leaders of future generations.'' Earlier Tuesday, Holder marked the observance of an LGBT event at the Justice Department, by recounting a string of recent decisions, from the end of the military's 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' policy to the Supreme Court's repeal last year of the federal government's ban on recognizing gay marriage. "In recent years, and even in the last 12 months, our nation has made extraordinary strides to overcome obstacles and institutional biases that too often affect gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender individuals,'' Holder said. http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...-ban/10294827/

Yeah, I couldn't figure that out either....

Scouts lead off » A group of uniformed Boy Scouts carrying the flags of their nation and their state would be a non-event at almost any parade, but not at Pride. And that’s before adding Geoffrey McGrath, a former scoutmaster in Seattle dismissed by the Boy Scouts of America three months ago for being gay. McGrath led about 10 former and current Scout leaders and Scouts at the beginning of the Pride Parade on Sunday, carrying an American flag, an Israeli flag and rainbow flags, along with protest signs against the Boy Scout of America. Among the group was Peter Brownstein who made the same walk with Scouts in 2013, only to get reprimanded by the Great Salt Lake Council and threatened with being removed if he made a repeat appearance. The Scouting council won’t have to follow through with its threat since the United Jewish Federation in October suspended the troop Brownstein led. The Boy Scouts don’t allow its uniformed members to participate in political events and the Great Salt Lake Council considers the Pride Parade political. Brownstein argues that it is cultural. Brownstein said he felt it is important to participate in the Pride Parade, even after losing his troop, because he wants to keep the pressure on the Boy Scouts to change. "I believe the issue needs to stay at the forefront of the discussion as they remake themselves into a more inclusive organization," Brownstein said. The Scouts have allowed gay youths to join its organization this year but still have a policy against gay scout leaders. McGrath, an Eagle Scout and a software engineer, founded a troop last fall sponsored by the Rainier Beach United Methodist Church, which promotes LGBT equality. His sexuality was mentioned in a NBC News story that prompted the Boy Scouts to remove him from his post in a letter dated March 31.

Perhaps they could nationalize the Liberace Museum in Las Vegas.

Here is their official policy on referencing the BSA. Seems reasonable. GUIDELINES ON COMMUNICATIONS REFERENCING THE BSA Trail Life USA (TLUSA) is a Christian character development organization with leaders whose tone and chosen words in all communications should reflect the example and teachings of our Lord Jesus Christ and the Holy Scriptures. We also recognize that, in explaining our program, its origins, or differences between TLUSA and the Boy Scouts of America (BSA) there are times where it is both necessary and appropriate to make reference to BSA and or its policies. Accordingly, we wish to be people of the utmost good will when we make public statements or references to the BSA. The above goal can be accomplished in a number of ways, however we recommend the following guidelines: 1) We should make every effort to ensure that communications referencing the BSA be truthful, accurate, and factual. 2) When possible, communications should be charitable and done in a way that honors the memory, contribution, and legacy of the BSA. 3) When possible, generic over specific references to the BSA could be used such as, “other youth programs,†or “the program some of us came out of.†4) We should avoid judgmental or prideful comparisons with the BSA program and in our aim to “raise the standard†in the TLUSA program. 5) We should avoid comments, words, or tone which would be perceived as arrogant or disrespectful. 6) The use of humor should be lighthearted in spirit and not biting with sarcasm and/or mockery. We affirm that there are legitimate criticisms to be made of the BSA, especially regarding the membership changes made in May of 2013. However, when discussing these matters we encourage members to be serious-minded, humble, factual, and sober to the dangers and risks to youth created by those changes. Further, we believe that the men and boys left behind in the BSA are in no way our opponents or adversaries. On the contrary, many of them are our family, friends, and like brothers to us. We also recognize that the professionals and top leadership in the BSA are largely responsible for initiating and leading the changes in their membership policies and not the millions of rank and file BSA Troop Leaders, youth members, or alumni. Finally, although it is not the desire or intention of the Board of Directors of TLUSA to regulate, police, or restrict the speech of its leaders, staff, or membership, when references to the BSA are made we hope that they would reflect the spirit of the slogan in our inaugural convention: “Honoring the Legacy… Raising the Standard.†Most importantly, we wish to honor God and be Christ-like in our speech and written communications and pray these guidelines will serve this purpose. - See more at: http://www.traillifeusa.com/faqtab/g....MHnaiojc.dpuf