MarkS

I think John-in-KC touched on a great idea to make the "invite-your-frind recruiting lock-in" a success. If your OA chapter is capable, get them involved and let them put together the plan. You can be their advisor.

My main issue in this discussion is we're using the Post Register as a reference and the article makes a specific claim that the Council should have known Stowell was a molester prior to hiring him when their own research clearly shows the Council could not have known. When someone so obviously misinterprets the data they've collected, it makes me question what else they got wrong. Yet we're quoting them as an authority on all of the facts of the case. Not to mention the fact that the Stowell case if off-topic from the Evans case.(This message has been edited by MarkS)

That Nieman Report article by Dean Miller doesn't even accurately report what was stated in the Post Register. It over simplifies the details leaving out the important timeline of events. The statement, "Turns out that as early as 1991 scout leaders had been warned about Stowell; they hired him again anyway." is very misleading bordering on a lie. No one doing the hiring was notified. National was notified by a "Blackfoot man" who heard something from a paster about a juvenile three years prior. Furthermore, given that the junvenile was now an adult and had no record, there's nothing they could have done with the information. Complaints were made to the church that the council was hiring Stowell but as far as the church was concerned, Stowell successfully completed their counseling program. The Post Register's assertion that Stowall was a "known child molester" is a false statement. How the Register came up with that conclusion given that their own story indicates the local council wasn't informed until 1995, that the council checked Stowall's background through the church, and the church indicated that it wasn't an issue (all apparently before summer camp started) defies logic. The right people didn't know and had no means of finding out.(This message has been edited by MarkS)

Merlyn must know something that's not been reported because I don't see where the stakeholders and decision makers had the right information at the right time to to avoid hiring the guy in the first place (for any of the times they hired the guy). All that's there is some "Blackfoot man" and his wife spreading rumors and innuendo (albiet, rummors and innuendo that turned out to be true) to the wrong people. If you follow the the timeline and who was notified and when, you'll see it was not timely and not the decision makers who hired the guy. The final straw is when the information finally gets to the right person, he follows up, and the originator of the rumors and innuendo says it's no longer a problem. It's right there on page three of the Post Register web site under the heading Multiple Warnings (which given the timeline of events and those involved is really a misleading title). No one received multiple warnings and those that needed to know, received none.

I read where Les Stroud uses a Leatherman Wave multi-tool. I guess my search is over.

It's not a matter of fitness, it's a matter of attentiveness. The kids won't continuously walk. They'll stop and smell the roses, look at the grass, chase the frog, whatever distraction there will is, they'll stop for it. Not that it's a bad thing, they should explore their surroundings on the hike. The callenge will be keeping them going for the full five miles. Heck, there are some first year scouts in my son's troop that struggle to reach a 2 mph pace... and I'm talking a day hike with only daypacks and water bottles. It's not a matter of fitness with them either. Oh look at that stick! Hey SPL, will you get Johnny back on the trail please.(This message has been edited by MarkS)

I'm thinking that 2 miles per hour is too optimistic for Wolf scouts. I think 1 mile per hour is probably more accurate for what they're capable of.(This message has been edited by MarkS)

Yep... I had a youth working staff at a camporee challenge me that the blade of my pocketknife was too long because it was longer than my palm is wide. All of the Totin Chip requirements can be found in the Scout Handbook (ref: http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/resources/32215/s/totin.html) and there's nothing in there that says a pocketknife has to lock or be limited in length (as in my case). Others here have pointed out there could be local council, district, or unit rules that place restrictions on pocketknives or state laws that define when a pocketknife is considered an illegal weapon. As others have suggested, I'd politely ask the ASM where he heard about the "extra rules" to see if they can be substantiated. If they can, make sure they're understood and followed. If they can't, I suppose you can choose to either ignore them or decide that they're a good idea for your unit and adopt them. BTW... I did verify that my knife was perfectly legel. :-)(This message has been edited by MarkS)

I would think that the behavior mentioned could diminish the den method of Cub Scouting (i.e., belonging, sportsmanship and good citizenship, getting along, and to how to do their best, not just for themselves but also for the den). It could also adversely affect the ability of the cubmaster and affected den leaders to provide the boys with a quality program filled with fun and activities, prevent the dens from functioning well, and interfere with the shared leadership plans of the dens. This is because the den leaders rely on the Tiger Cubs' adult partners to help plan their den meetings and activities and the cubmaster relies on the den leaders to coordinate their den's participation at pack meetings. On the plus side, the behavior can also contribute to more regular attendance and regular attendance is important if the boys are going to get the most benefit from the program. I suggest you talk to the cubmaster and affected den leaders about your concerns, find out what they think of the situation, and give them a chance to handle it. If it is causing them problems or they decide to permit it and it adversely affects the success of the pack, then you should work with the cubmaster to educate the parents of the importance of the den method of Cub Scouting and allow them to voluntarily make the decision to discontinue the behavior. Try not to involve the den leaders in this education process. If there is pushback from the parents, it will reduce the risk of tarnishing the ability of the den leaders to maintain a friendly relationship with the Tiger Cubs' adult partners.

MarkS said, "After the SM/SAs scratch off skydiving and the demolition derby (they put them up every year, the rascals)" Beavah said, "Why scratch 'em out, eh?" They know that BSA policy prohibits these activities. They put them up mostly as an annual joke. Do like the idea about camping at the airstrip to see a skydiving demo. Although I suspect the boys would rather have a campout with an activity the can do, rather than watch.

Its Me asked, "I am running a leadership program this weekend for First Class scouts and above. The focus will be the Patrol Leaders Handbook. I need two 30-45 minutes games. Ideally one should be a team building game and the other a leadership game. What have you seen work well and Why?" Not what I've seen, just a couple ideas... You could check out the Troop Program Resources CD but have you thought about doing your leadership training on a low ropes course? Assuming your council has one, mix in your training with some of the team building obstacles on the course. Get whatever trained leadership your council requires for the course and make a day of it.(This message has been edited by MarkS)

Also... BTW... At our annual planning conference, rather than providing the boys with a of ideas on a board we let them put the list together. Starting with a list of "wants" from their patrols, the boys brainstorm and come up with a list of ideas... anything goes, no comments, just get it on the board. After the SM/SAs scratch off skydiving and the demolition derby (they put them up every year, the rascals) and other things that violate BSA guidelines, the boys prioritize them. From the prioritized list they prepare a program calendar coordinating troop activities with those of the council, district, and OA (that we know about). Finally, after the calendar is set, we estimate out how much each activity will cost. From there we figure out what is needed to raise funds to pay for the activity. If it's more than they want to do, we iteratively go back and forth between estimating cost and planning fundraising until we have a final program plan and a budget plan to pay for it.(This message has been edited by MarkS)

It sounds to me that the process is working just fine. If it were me, as long as we discuss the advantages and disadvantages of the activities they're deciding on and there are no violations of scouting policy with either activity, I'd let the boys lead and choose the activity. However, it's important for SMs to make sure that the members of PLC, especially PLs, understand thay are making decisions based on the desires of and/or the benefit of their patrol members and troop and not personal agendas. I think if you do that, you've done your job. Perhaps a course of action would be to ask your SPL to have the PLs talk about the activity choices with their patrols and find out what the patrol members want to do before the PLC makes a decision. I also think that the goal should be to come to a consensus, not vote. Voting should be a last resort when a consensus can not be achieved in a timely manner.(This message has been edited by MarkS)

http://www.longspeakbsa.org/resources/thornsroses.shtml

Seems to me that a leadership evaluation form wouldn't provide you with any additional information of value than can be obtained through observation and from your SMCs and BORs of the boys. I ask the boys questions like, "what would you like to see the troop start doing, continue doing, and stop doing?" Or perhaps, "if you were the PL of your patrol (SPL of the troop), what would you do differently? The same?"

Our District OA Chapter has organized our camporees for years. It's been very succesful for us. It's a perfect fit for their mission of promoting camping, spreads the work around to numerous different troops, and allows organizer turnover so there's no burnout.

HiLo asked, "if there are ways of changing parts of BSA policies if enough members disagree?" In the US, scout units are pretty much sponsored by two types of chartered organizations. Involved ones and uninvolved ones. The involved COs are typically churches, private schools, VFW posts, et al) who support the current policies. The uninvolved COs are typically PTAs and PTOs of public schools. Since those organizations are uninvolved, it does not matter if they support the policies or not. I think the COs are going to have to drive change and scouting volunteers would have to work thru the COs to make this happen. I do not currently agree with all of the BSA policies. Put me in the group that thinks the positives outweigh the negatives.(This message has been edited by MarkS)

When our troop takes trips that require overnight travel other than camping, we try to find a National Guard Armory to stay at. There are lots of ways to search for this on the Internet but if a state guard does not publish armory info on their web site, I have found that searching for "National Guard Armory, City, State" (e.g., National Guarnd Armory, Irving, TX) on maps.google.com is pretty successful. If it finds one, it will give you its phone number.(This message has been edited by MarkS)

All Starbucks coffee tastes burnt to me. Can't really stand it unless sufficiently camoflauged in something like a Caramel Macchiato. I think Panera's, McDonald's, and Dunkin' Donuts are all better than Starbucks.

pargolf44067 asked, "...does anyone have any ideas how to get the second and third year boys, many of whom have heard the same training over and over again, but are not leaders that will show younger kids what to do, to be interested in listening to the training?" Have ***them*** lead the training. Make sure the training is hands on with packs, clothes, and examples. Make a model snow shelter out of cardboard boxes... Less talk, more doing during training. Gold Winger said, "At some point in our lives we learn to listen to those with experience at least most of the time. It takes experience to learn to listen." Yep, there's a saying I've heard used more than once in adult leader training classes, "Good Judgement comes from experience and experience comes from bad judgement."

I think the real nutshell question here is, "can scouting prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law without them achieving the rank of Eagle?" Yes, certainly. The mission of scouting can be achieved if a boy does not earn Eagle rank. Conversely, earning Eagle doesn't necessarily mean that the mission of scouting has been achieved. However, from a parent's perspective, I know that college admissions officers and those that divvy out scholarship money are only really interested in whether or not a boy earned Eagle. The lessons my son can learn from the program is why I enrolled him in scouting and why I hope he continues in the program. The money that can potentially be saved is why I encourage him to earn Eagle. Hopefully, I'm smart enough to find the right balance between motivation and allowing him to make his own choices--not only for him but all the boys in the unit I support.

Our Troop was at our Disctrict Fall Encampment. I think the boys had a great time with the activities... I wouldn't know. The Scoutmaster and I stayed in camp and seam-sealed the new tents that were purchased for the troop. One patrol didn't get their act together for breakfast on Satuday and the Scoutmaster and I shocked the Webelos leader who was visiting with her den when we told her that we weren't going to give them our leftovers and they'd have to go hungry till lunch. She understood though when we told her that they were having sandwiches for lunch so there was little risk of a foul-up there and we'd make sure the SPL was engaged in their dinner prep to better their chances for success. Worked out in the end, no one starved during their morning activities they managed to eat lunch and dinner. Didn't stay for the closing ceremonies on Sunday. I had to be at another council property for challenge course instructor training. Only pulled one muscle so it turned out okay.

Don't presume that the boy is picky and can help it. There are other health issues out there that affect a child's eating habits besides allergies. For example, a Nonverbal Learning Disorder (NLD) will have a significant adverse impact on the eating habits of a child. Kids with NLD have a hypersensitivity to the taste ***AND*** texture of food. Check out http://www.nldontheweb.org/ and see if this boy exhibits any of the other traits of NLD. My son has NLD but will eat most breads and pastries (white, wheat, blueberry or cinimon bagels, plain or chocolate chip or blueberry waffles and panckaes, and the centers of Pop Tarts), Kraft American Cheese (he can tell if you didn't buy Kraft), potatos (with sufficient quantities of butter and sour cream), boneless skinless unbattered chicken (with sufficient quantities of Kraft Honey or KC Style BBQ sauce), Kraft Cheesiest Mac & Cheese (must be Kraft, must be chessiest, he can tell the difference) Del Monte peaches in heavy syrup (he can tell if it is not Del Monte), broccoli and cauliflower (with sufficient quantities of Kraft Honey or KC Style BBQ sauce) but no other vegetables (go figure), grape juice, milk, and water (he will not drink soda--doesn't like the texture of the bubbles). Fortunately, his patrol has learned to plan menus so that each meal incorporates an item he likes. It may be the only thing he eats at that meal but they all have something to eat. Now getting them to work as a team, follow their duty roster, and complete meal preparation and cleanup in a timely manner... that's another story.

Beavah said, "Yah, KC, it goes even further than that, in that the instructions from National to the councils are that the list of MBC's is a restricted document..." If true, my council isn't following the instructions. http://www.stlbsa.org/Advancement/Merit+Badge+Counselors+Directory/

In the Introduction to Merit Badges found at http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/resources/32215/mb/index.html it says that, "your Scoutmaster will give you the name of a person from a list of counselors..." It doesn't say who manages that list but the Introductory Guide for Merit Badge Counselors located at http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/resources/mbc/ says that counselors must register through, "[their] BSA local council." If someone knows of a specific policy that says a Scoutmaster must not limit the list of counselors to a subset of those registered through his local council that are in his unit, please reference the policy. I'd have to agree with earlier comments that the unit really needs to do a good job communicating that they will only accept blue cards from merit badge counselors who are ***ALSO*** registered with their unit. However, I'm not finding anything that says this is a violation of national policy--they're still applying the aims and methods. I personally can not endorse a policy like this because I do not believe a single unit can register enough individuals whose vocation/avocation qualifications and special training make them experts in all 132 topics offered by the program (my council is the GSLAC and it can't even do that) and I think it would limit the boys' access to a wealth of knowledgeable resources out there and their ability to explore those topics. I would prefer to use the list provided by my council and do the necessary research to match the right counselor to a boy in my unit interested in a merit badge.