MarkS

According to the Mid-America Council's newsletter, Pahuk Pride is their NYLT course.(This message has been edited by MarkS)

Our unit has about 25 boys with about 15 regularly active. Seven boys are in OA. One boy (I guess a non-boy now because he just turned 18) is Second Vice Chief of our lodge. Another boy is First Vice Chief of our chapter. One boy is the Chapter OA Rep Chair. Another boy is a Ceremonial Team Chair. Our CC is our Chapter Camp Promotion Advisor. I help out with the Ceremonial Team. All of our youth got started in OA after their Ordeal by participating in the Ceremonial Team. Our Chapter has a very good Ceremonial Team and that seems to be the hook that got the boys interested. They do Crossover, Ordeal, Brotherhood, and Four Winds ceremonies. The Crossover Ceremonial Team usually leaves a big impression with Webelos. Older boys in regalia... that's so cool as far as a Webelos is concerned. It may take a six months to a year in the Troop before they connect that ceremony with the OA but a lasting impression has been made. Another thing that really helps is that our lodge and chapters are very visible. It's customery/standard operating procedure for OA chapters to plan and staff their district camporees and klondike derby. That's three event annually and if a unit participates in all of them, about 25% of the unit's campouts each year. At our district Spring Camporee one boy in our unit was the Boy Scout Camp Master and another boy in our unit was the Webelos Camp Master. We're going to have two other boys do it again for the Fall Camporee later this year. All of the youth OA members in our unit (except my son) have completed NYLT and have staffed NYLT at least once. OA members also conduct Den Chief training for our council. The vast majority of our Summer Camp staff are OA members and we have our OA elections and callout ceremony at Summer Camp. Over 900 Ordeal candidates were elected at Summer Camp last year. So as you can see, if your council and districts give the boys in the OA opportunities to be visible and do positive things, the rest takes care of itself.(This message has been edited by MarkS)

Che Guevara wore a beret and his image wearing it became a counterculture icon worldwide after CIA operatives helped in his capture and execution in Bolivia. Not sure if it was a red beret.

I have more than enough unifrom clothing to satisfy the needs of our program. I think I'll keep wearing it until it wears out. I have a couple of the older shorts that I bought before switchbacks that I no longer need. Think I'll try to sell them on ebay. Also have a couple of the older long pants. I wear those to troop meetings during the winter so I can save my two Switchbacks for camping.

I'm an ASM in my troop. I can have lots of opinions but in a nutshell, I have absolutely no say on approving troop policies. ASMs have to learn that they can offer no more than suggestions to the TC, SM, and PLC. After that, it's a matter of convincing them that you have a good, value added idea.

Man. Who died and made Neil and FScouter God? :-)

Are you sure the problem isn't that you don't really understand Buddhism? There are a ton of tenets to figure out.

I think Avery was done a couple pages ago. Not sure if he got his answer. In one of his last posts he asked, "I would very much like to learn more about various religions, especially Christianity and other similar religions. But I am not exactly who I can get honest and unbiased answers from. Anybody got any suggestions?" Avery... my suggestion would be to take some philosophy classes or read some books on philosophy, especially world religions, and go to church (keeping an open mind but don't drink the Kool-Aid). Faith is something you experience. It's not something you learn about. The only place you'll get an unbiased answer is in yourself. You can't get any answers about God by looking at science. It's a mutually exclusive field of study.(This message has been edited by MarkS)

I think it's pretty clear that when the BSA refers to agnostic, they're referring to a person who has adopted Agnosticism and believe that the existence of God is unknown or inherently unknowable (at the expense of faith). They're using the old school definition. Polls and studies have shown that 75-85% of the US population believes in God.

Sometimes I think we use the term agnostic incorrectly. A person who says they are uncertain or do not know if God exists is not agnostic. An agnostic believes that the truth of the existance of God is unknown or unknowable.

Six to eight 12 year olds in one tent? How did it survive the first night?(This message has been edited by MarkS)

Let 'em quibble. He'll have no more weaponry than Vizzini.

Avery said, "I have made a reasoned and well thought decision on my non-theism." As a person with a professional background in engineering and science who took a boatload of classes in philosophy, all I can say is if you have faith in that, go with it. There's really no reasoned or scientific basis for the existance or lack thereof God. Theism and atheism are philosophies not subject to the same acceptance criteria as fields within the realm of empirical science. You simply can't use scientific method to observe the unobservable or prove the unprovable. To either accept any theistic or atheistic belief requires faith. It would be interesting for you to extrapolate on your reasoned approach to your decision. If you take a long hard look at it, I bet you'll find your lack of belief is based on an assumption or feeling... Which is okay because so is belief.(This message has been edited by MarkS)

They can have my beads back when they can pry them from my cold dead fingers. I don't see how they can call on everyone to REDO training when training is not required in order to be a volunteer. I'm not aware of an experiation date for the basic training I took. Nor am I sure how retaking training will provide any new information a Scoutmaster who's been active the last eight years wouldn't already know.

What Gold Winger said. I'd loan it to them because a scout is helpful (this could mean generous too but not necessarily). It's an opportunity to do a good turn daily. However, make sure they understand your expectations regarding the use and care of your equipment up front so there are no hard feelings should an issue come up later. Especially if they plan to borrow your equipment frequently (e.g., several times a year). For example, you may want to make sure that they understand that their use of the equipment will be secondary to the units you sponsor. You may consider having them provide a fair donation to your unit to cover part of the expense of wear and tear, maintenace, et al. The donation could be as simple as helping out at your next fundraiser. They should also be willing to replace anything that is inadvertently destroyed during one of their activities. Just because you're being helpful, doesn't mean you don't expect them to practice good citizenship. Whether or not loaning such equipment will build a positive relationship or cause problems depends on your ability to communicate your expectations and their ability to meet the responsibilities you lay upon them. If you're reasonable and they're responsible, it should work out great. If not, problems will be incurred.(This message has been edited by MarkS)

fgoodwin: I understand the intent and goals of the training but if you read your own quotes, none say the person in charge of planning the event must be the one who took the training. AnneinMpls said the person leading the cub overnighter must have BALOO training. Certainly the best way to do it but not a requirement. I felt it was being implied to SctDad there's a rule that says he can not be do the planning if he hadn't taken the training.

The leader/organizer/planner of a pack overnighter is not required to have completed BALOO training. The requirement is that at least one adult on a pack overnighter have completed BALOO training. However, the advantages of the leader/organizer/planner having the training is obvious. As far as how to break down campsite duties is concerned, your options are almost limitless--in both how tasks are defined and delegated. I'd need more details on what your plans were to help. However, if you send me a PM with your email address, I'll send you an example plan for an overnighter I planned a while back (it was my first and only but a couple months after I took BALOO training).

I think I'm going to patent my tent door design that uses buttons. It involves a slit that has the top of the door tucked in and the bottom of the door tucked out. ;-)

Is the problem just that the teeth aren't closing when you run the slider across the zipper? As the zipper is used and ages, the slider spreads out. Take a pair of pliers and gently squeeze both sides of the channel on the slider (assuming the slider is metal and not plastic). This should correct this common problem.

Hazing has a specific purpose. The Ordeal has a specific purpose. Those purposes as mutually exclusive and distinct entities nor are the elements of an Ordeal ceremony abusive or humiliating. If we can't agree which purpose has a malevolent intent and which purpose has a benevolent intent, then there's not much point in continuing this conversation, is there?(This message has been edited by MarkS)

Agree that a call out is a good precaution for preventing the one-in-a-million risk of a broken collar bone from a tap out but I don't see where these ceremonies or any of the other activities mentioned by GW really constitute subjecting someone to unnecessary meaningless or disagreeable tasks, abuse, harassment, humiliation, or ridicule--especially for the entertainment of others.(This message has been edited by MarkS)

SctDad asked, "Do your scouts still teach the long lost art of snipe hunting to the younger scouts on one of their fisrt campouts." No. Hazing and initiations are prohibited in our unit and may not be included as part of any Scouting activity. Hazing can result in the revocation of a Scout's membership in our unit.

nldscout... Common sense says those examples aren't applicable to the discussion. It's certainly not in the best interest of a scout to compromise his safety. Scouting is not of the same level of importance as school. No crime was commited.

John, The conversation you suggested occurred. Mom still wants dad to go camping with the boy before he's allowed to go camping. The advancement was given to the boy about a year ago. So far the 2d and 3d order consequences have not come up. Now he has just a few requirements (including camping) before he'll be ready for an SMC on First Class. Probably won't happen until the fall but I want to make sure he doesn't show up for his SMC and BOR unless he's completed all of the requirements including camping.

Well, I won't be mamby pamby either... That's the most narrow-minded/short-sighted post yet nldscout. Not at all representative of the ideals or aims of scouting. For the rest of you. Appreciate the effort to recognize the big picture and help with the best path forward since the plan to get this guy camping and on track didn't pan out--probably only delayed him losing interest and dropping out.(This message has been edited by MarkS)