MarkS

Jeffrey H "...keep in mind that the BSAs policy against avowed homosexual leaders and members is not an arbitrary position, but grounded in the Judeo-Christian beliefs held by many of its members..." Different Christian churches don't even agree on this. The Roman Catholic and Lutheran churches ban gays from membership, the United Church of Christ accepts gays, and while the Southern Baptists don't accept gay membership, the official position of their church is that they can live moral lives if they remain celibate. I see inconsistancies in BSA policies accepting diverse religious beliefs while banning gays. I concur with scoutldr, this policy will change over time. Only I believe change will happen in the near term.

I've read that the council spent $2.6 million on renovations to the building in the mid-'90s and $60,000 a year for maintenance and upkeep of the property. I wonder if the dispute would be resolved if they stayed in the building and paid fair market rent while the city paid $60,000 a year for maintenance and upkeep of the property. What is fair market rent? Could they move and pay less than $60,000 a year elsewhere? Point is, the "free rent" doesn't really sound like a bargain, but I'm missing info on what the city wants to charge for rent of the building.

I wonder what, "Scout officials plan to meet with city solicitor Romulo Diaz Jr. in the near future to 'hopefully' adopt a policy 'not to discriminate.'" means? I don't think a council can go against national policy.

fgoodwin wrote... "The problem with your "if-then" is that no court has ever ruled that it is unconstitutional for schools to charter scout units." You're right but what do you think the chances of the BSA winning the issue in court? Where do you want the BSA to spend its money in this case. On litigation or on the boys? I'd rather spend it on the program.

I'm going to have to agree with Merlyn that the issue of scout units being chartered by public schools is more than a nitpick. It is a big deal. If the courts have decided that it is unconstitional for a public school to be the chartered organization of a scout unit, then as scouts and scouters we have a duty to our country to obey that law. However, we need to think terms of the path forward and not dwell on the past. Because units only update their charters once a year, the scout units tend to be run by parent volunteers with a high turnover rate, and public schools and their officials tend to not be actively involved in the operation of the scout unit, some units will likely have missed the need to update their charters the first time after the policy change. It's going to take some time to update all of the affected charters. Since the BSA started taking action to have units pull charters from public schools around March of 2005 when the ACLU vowed to take legal action against public schools and other taxpayer-funded governmental agencies that chartered scout units, it make take until next March before this is all straightened out. Whether the school or PTA is the chartered organization doesn't matter as much as whether scout units have the same access to public school facilities as any other student or community groups that are permitted to have access. BSA members still pay taxes to support those facilities. I didn't even know my unit was not chartered by the school until I completed the recharter paperwork for the unit.(This message has been edited by MarkS)

For the most part in our troop, the only equipment that goes home with the boys after a campout will be a wet tent. All tents are numbered and we have a white board mounted inside the door of our trailer with a list of the tent numbers and how has them. A clipboard with lists on a chain attached inside the trailer will work too.

In its original forms, Buddhism did not teach of the existence of transcendent, immanent, or any other type of God, Gods, Goddess, and/or Goddesses. However, many Buddhists -- particularly in Japan or those of Japanese descent -- do believe in a pantheon of deities. As far as the issue with the "Do you believe in God?" question is concerned. I don't think it should necessarily be considered an adversarial question. Especially if you already know you will receive an open and honest answer in the positive. However, given that one of the guidelines for properly administering a BOR is to make every effort to put the Scout at ease while ensuring that he has completed the requirements for rank and encourage continued advancement, to determine the quality of his troop experience, and discuss how the Scout sees himself living up to the Scout Oath and Law, I think there are much better ways of phrasing this question that are more compliant with this guideline and intent of the BOR when the answer is not already known. I prefer asking, what does "duty to God" mean to you?

stlscouter, That's similar to what we do. Personally, like AvidSM, I would prefer that councils provide the necessary storage and staff to administer medications at long-term camps on their properties, but in lieu of that, I think its best for units to establish safeguards and procedures for ensuring medications are properly administered under adult supervision rather than leaving that responsibility to each individual boy. Safety dictates that access to such medications be restricted until they are needed. Mark

With all due respect to AvidSM, I don't see how he can assure the safety of the boys in his troop if he's letting the Johnny's and Billy's carry their meds around in a Ziploc bags labeled by their parents. What if Billy gets his hands on Johnny's meds either by intent or mistake and ends up comatose under the troop fly? How do you know what's wrong with him? Better hope Johnny's mom and dad labeled that bag correctly. Otherwise, he could end up with the wrong treatment for Billy. That's why we insist all medications be stored in their original containers with the dosage instructions. We make the parents provide just enough for the outting. They keep the extras in the Ziploc bags at home. Yes we want to teach the boys responsibility, but safety comes first. Medications should be kept in a secure container until needed, not in every boys' unlocked duffle or backpack. How is that safer? An OD is a hard lesson to learn. The GSS has this to say about prescriptions... "The taking of prescription medication is the responsibility of the individual taking the medication and/or that individual's parent or guardian. A Scout leader, after obtaining all the necessary information, can agree to accept the responsibility of making sure a Scout takes the necessary medication at the appropriate time, but BSA policy does not mandate nor necessarily encourage the Scout leader to do so. Also, if your state laws are more limiting, they must be followed." We have to decide what is safest for our units. The age, maturity, and reliability of the boys in the unit affect what is best for the unit. What's right for one unit may not be right for another.(This message has been edited by MarkS)

All medications must be provided by parents in the original RX container. They are kept locked up (we use a large tackle box) and dispensed by the unit leader. We create a schedule for when each boy is to receive their medications based on the directions printed on the RX container and conduct med calls using the schedule. The schedule shows every dose of every medication throughout the outting. The boys initial the schedule each time they receive their meds. The only time the camp medical staff stores medications for us is if it requires refridgeration. Our council doesn't permit boys to retain their medications while in camp (might be a state law--I don't know) except for inhalers or medications for allergic reactions (e.g., bee stings).(This message has been edited by MarkS)

"Solar collectors and windmills will be standard outfit on most houses." No way! Not unless we get rid of the deed restrictions or Conditions, Covenants and Restrictions (CC& R) that those subdivision Nazis are enforcing nowadays. The real solution is to replace coal fired power plants with plants that utilitize alternative sources such as solar and wind to produce electricity.

It's only a forum... Don't put too much into the way people state things. Sometimes we forget to be as polite as we would if the real person we are talking to was actually present. Sometimes it's more difficult to articulate something in the written form than to just say it. For example, who among us have not once spent 30 minutes composing an email that could be handled with a 5 minute phone call? Just turn on the final forum filter between your ears and remember to "shovel it, pile it, and pick out the good stuff." ;-)(This message has been edited by MarkS)

I'm not sure how turning in a permission slip two weeks in advance of an outting affects the cook's menu plans. Turning in a permission slip does not mean no one will drop out of the activity. Besides the patrol should be planning the meals, not just the cook. Our Patrol Leaders are taught to find out who is going to participate in an outting and plan accordingly. Paperwork does not interfere with our planning process. We meet someplace and travel as a unit to our outtings. Parents transporting boys to an outting is okay as the need arises but it is perferred that we travel as a unit. We ask for permission slips in advance of an outting, but as long as our boys bring their permission slips when we meet to travel as a unit or the parent provides the permission slip whe he or she drops off their boy, the boy can participate. If they forget the permission slip, we are prepared with blank permission slips that parents can fill out upon arrive either at the meeting location or outting site. In short, we handle this in a flexible manner that meets the needs of our parents and complies with Youth Protection guidelines. We don't have rigid rules that might deny six scouts from participating in an activity because they have another committment at the time of some arbitrary deadline for the submittal of paperwork. Our council doesn't require tour permits unless we leave the council boundries. In those cases were the information is needed to complete the permit, we plan accordingly.(This message has been edited by MarkS)

Its Me, You did solicit the advice of the forum on "Why stay when there appears to be so little return on the investment?" I'm not sure what kind of answers you were expecting to get in this forum other than differing opinions on the value of the investment in scouting. My only advice is to let your boy have a say in what youth programs he participates in. If you don't have time and budget for all of the ones you approve of, let him be involved in setting priorities on which ones he prefers--perhaps he's not ready to do that yet. I just don't see return on investment as a significant requirement for extracurricular activities. I'm more interested in my boy participating in things that interest him (other than the video game club).

Its Me, You're right, there's not enough time in the day for our boys to do every activity that's available to them. I suggest setting up a time and financial budget for extra curricular activities and letting your boy pick what he wants to do within that budget. After all extra curricular activities are just that... extra, not required. They're supposed to be things he wants to do. Don't choose for him, but reserve the right to veto choices you find inappropriate for him. Mark

fgoodwin... You hit the nail on the head. That's what I meant by the WL being more forward thinking than the disappearing packet. The WL need to make sure that all opportunities to participate in outdoor activities such as the summer residents camps and campouts with the troop are taken advantage of. The packet just helps you make sure you have all your bases covered. Mark Former WL too.

GS-CS... I read the thread. You asked what the rules are for transferring to another unit and I told you. All you have to do is fill out the applications. Unless the applicants are unwilling to subscribe to the Declaration of Religious Principle and to the Bylaws of the Boy Scouts of America, the pack must accept them. Albiet, the pack may want to refer individuals with special needs to a special needs unit but that doesn't mean the unit is allowed to refuse their membership. As far as the other issues you indicated. All of them are manufactured by you and the leaders of the other Pack. The only ones putting up roadblocks to you merging are your units is you (the leaders of both units, that is). My advice is to concentrate on putting together a great program in your bigger and better unit. If you have a great program, most other problems solve themselves.

GS-CS... All you need for the boys is one of these: http://www.scouting.org/forms/28-102.pdf . Just fill it out and check the "TRANSFER FROM" box filling in the appropriate info. There is no reason any pack you want your boys to join should say no. All you need for the adults is one of these: http://www.scouting.org/forms/28-501.pdf . Just fill it out, and check the "TRANSFER FROM" box filling in the appropriate info. However, the Committee Chair of the unit you want to join has to approve new leaders and their needs may not be consistent with the job you want to do. If only all packs were so lucky to have multiple volunteers for the same jobs. Other than those signing the forms, no other scout representative need be involved. Mark(This message has been edited by MarkS)

Check out the Webelos to Scout Transition Disappearing Packet supplied by the Greater St. Louis Area Council... http://www.stlbsa.org/NR/rdonlyres/E8D2FE74-4D0D-4530-AB7E-B293C8FE0FD3/0/Resource_DisappearingPacket.pdf The packet indicates that you should begin planning the transition when the boys finish fourth grade. However, I found that a Webelos Leader needs to be a little more forward thinking than the packet shows. A Webelos Leader needs to understand the age requirements to join Boys Scouts, the inter-relationship of the requirements for the Outdoorsman Activity Badge and the Arrow of Light, and provide a couple opportunities each year to ensure his 10 year olds complete the rank in order to meet the joining requirements.(This message has been edited by MarkS)

For best results... The Cubmaster does not run the pack. The Committee Chair does with the help of the Pack Committee. With the help of the Pack Committee, it's up to the Committee Chair to recruit the other adult leaders (including the Cubmaster), ensure they are trained, and are following BSA policies and guidelines. The Cubmaster recruits boys, conducts the Pack Program, and ensures that Den Leaders are providing quality Den Programs. The Committee Chair makes sure the pack is operating properly and Cubmaster makes sure the programs are operating properly. They work together. They are ying and yang. Den Leaders help the Cubmaster put on the Pack Program, run their Den Programs, and collect dues (because they see the boys and parents the most). It doesn't always work this way, but it should. For unit survival... A pack can do a lot of things differently from the way "the book" says. Heck, the Pack Meetings don't even have to be that great. However, if the Den Leaders are not providing a quality program, your membership will suffer. There's nothing you can do in a Pack Meeting to fix that. The Den Leaders are the most important leaders of a Pack. If they are not quality leaders, then the Pack will struggle. It's easier for five strong Den Leaders to assist a Cubmaster who needs help, than for the Cubmaster to assist five Den Leaders that need help. (This message has been edited by MarkS)

Yes, we all know they make the boys more at ease with public speaking but they also make the boys more involved in your meetings. When they know they have a part in the meeting, they may pay more attention to what else is going on. Skits offer quite a lot more to the Cub Scout program. For example, If you make costumes and build props, they teach craft and tool usage skills. They provide the boys with planning and preparation skills. They have to figure out what skit they will do (never tell them they have to do a specific skit, don't give them a choice between doing one or not, give them a choice of different skits to do), who will play what part, what props and materials are needed. In addition to the public speaking aspect, it teaches them to deal with adversity because not everything goes right and that's okay. They learn from that. Finally, the boys get a taste of the fundamental skills they will need to participate in and lead a boy-led Boys Scout Troop once they get there. Just think of a skit as a mini-project that they will have to plan, develop, and execute. Remember, Cub Scouts builds a foundation of skills useful later in Boy Scouts and in life. The wider the foundation, the higher they will achieve. Also, if the boys don't do things to entertain each other in a meeting, then leaders have to do it. Finally, they're fun and the boys are supposed to be having fun.(This message has been edited by MarkS)

1. Dad & Lad campout with my son when he was a Wolf. 2. Wood Badge. 3. Making a difference in a boy's life... teaching him a new skill or having fun with a new activity, and learning something about myself in the process.

Here's a back door approach... Work with your SPL to invite the local DARE officer to a Troop meeting in the very near future as a guest speaker on drug and alcohol abuse. Don't single out the parent or anything though. It might be a step backwards towards those long gone Webelos days, but this is a safety issue and that's top priority. Maybe the DARE officer can stay until all the boys are picked up.

We ended up doing what we should have done all along. We worked together to find someone else to fill in.

Don't just recruit, have a year-round, 24/7 recruiting plan. For example... Have an adult be an ASM for Pack Liaison/New Patrols. Get a couple boys trained as Den Chiefs. The ASM should find out what Packs are near you (especially those whose CO does not charter a Troop), contact the adult leaders, and establish a working relationship with them. The ASM should ask to attend their committee meetings on a regular basis to keep the packs aware of joint activities you are planning or are available through your District and Council. Remember Packs are adult led. Let your ASM make the initial contact and introduce the boys of your Troop. Have the Den Chiefs help out at their Pack meetings and work your way into helping out their Dens. Start with the older Webelos and expand to the younger boys as possible. Offer to support their B&G banquets by helping setup, decorate, and serve food. Get involved in the COs of the Packs. Target your service projects to helping them. If the CO is a school, set up a booth at their open house (help the Pack do the same and recruit together), ask for permission to have walk-throughs in the classrooms (assuming they have grade levels that meet age requirements) and recruit. Do stuff that makes your unit visible at the CO. Just because the Pack's CO is not the same as yours doesn't mean you can't establish a relationship with the CO. Just make sure the CO doesn't already charter another Troop. You don't need territory squabbles. Do the same thing with Churches and Schools even if they don't charter any scouting unit (Pack or Troop). Going out and getting them is more effective than waiting for them to contact you. Of course, after you get them. Make sure you have a quality program to keep them but that's a topic for another thread.(This message has been edited by MarkS)