marcpaige

Thank you all for your comments and suggestions. I understand the policy breach and will no longer retest in that setting. I will, however, find a way to maintain quality checks throughout the rest of the program. As I wrote before, the scouts do teach each other scoutcraft and have many opportunities to practice or demonstrate their skills either at troop meetings or on monthly campouts. Some specific responses follow: to scoutldr: the scouts in my troop truly have fun. the knot board is an excellent example. the boys will vie for position in line to have a turn at being timed for the king knot. they cheer each other on and will most definitely point out an erroneously tied knot. since I provide scenarios rather than rot testing, they don't realize that it is skill testing. to wingnut: I have a bond with all of my scouts from the first day the visit as a Webelos scout. I have chats with the boys at any opportunity. I see it my duty to understand what is going on. For instance, one boy who many of the adults in the troop had written off as trouble, was having difficulty dealing with divorce. He talked to me in his own time and fashion because I treated him with respect and understanding. Afterward, the discipline problems disappeared. to eammon: recently, there was a headline about an eagle who have been accused of murder in a small town. The openning sentence read something akin to honor student, star athelete, etc. is accued of murder. The headline, in bold enlarged print, had another purpose; shock value. Why do you suppose that the writer chose that headline? In my opinion, he knew that the accolade "Eagle Scout" has the connotation of honor and excellence. Why is it that the US military academy applications have a single question about scouting, namely: Are you an Eagle scout? I don't demand excellence. I don't even ask for it. I trust the scouts, and anybody else for that matter, to demand excellence of themselves. to mk9750: I trust my SAs to ensure quality when signing requirements and have no need to remove them from the process. However, I do think that one of the improvements I can implement is a more rigoruous review program with them. (Thank you for observance of the 5th scout law!) to scoutingagain: your description of the BOR smacks slightly of retesting when you ask for a demonstration of skills. My understanding of the mechanics of the BOR is that the board should ask open-ended questions that give the scout an opprotunity to discuss his accomplishments that lead to this rank. also, a BOR may determine that a scout is not ready for rank. If the board is not unanimous, they must detail the issues and corrective actions in a written report. This report is then reviewed with the scout and scoutmaster. This is not a failure per se, but the scout would not advance until the next BOR. The only other condition for "failure" would be due to poor bookkeeping, especially when up for eagle. to all: I reiterate that I will no longer be re-testing the scouts in conference. I will continue to "lead by example" by requiring excellence in my actions. I will implement a program of quality checks in my SAs and scout instructors holding them to the highest standard. Again, thank you for your comments and suggestions.

I'm not saying there is no responsiblity on the scout's part. I see that I have not provided enough context for the Cochran story. It really isn't relevent to the topic. The scout's responsiblity in Cochran's book and in my troop is clear: learn the material to the satisfaction of your teacher. Unfortunately, a scout, anyone for that matter, will follow the easier path when given a choice. There are those individuals who will buck the trend, but they are few and far between. You have, to an extent, supported my views though with your medical example. Who is responsible for ensure that a cheating doctor cannot practice medicine? It would probably be impossible to prove fault with a medical board after the fact, but some of the blame lies there. As to your last statement, in your view, in what way am I not following policy? I don't think that I am breaking any rules. I am not trying to be defensive. I truly want to know.

First a little context: I am SM of a small troop. I am an eagle scout. I am trained for my position and have my beads (go bears!) I attend roundtable and actively participate in the program. I stay informed on the latest requirment changes in both rank and merit badges for which I am counselor. I ask that any scout in my troop who has been signed off for a requirement should be able to either teach that requirement to another scout or demonstrate or describe the skill with or without reference. The current SPL assigns patrols to demonstrate scoutcraft during the troop meeting at the PLC. The quality of the demos are sometimes poor, but the boys seem to regulate that by peer disapproval. I suggest areas that I see are in need of review to the SPL. I have lashing and knot tying equipment available at every meeting. The knot "board" came from roundtable and I have a temporary "king knot" for the boy who has the fastest time. Competition is fierce. ASMs have been asked to ensure that no "rubber stamping" of requirements occurs. During SM conferences, I will ask questions from any topic that they should have mastered for that rank. I do not ask technical questions, rather, I setup scenarios that will require a scout to use his skills. Here is an example situation: you and your patrol are on a hike. You have the compass and a map of the area. You destination is point Y. You are at point X. How far will you travel? What kind of terrain will you encounter? etc. I invent first aid situations. I ask for a towel rack. You get the idea. The higher the rank, I expect higher retention of scoutcraft (since they are teaching it to other scouts and have many chances to practice.) Therefore, I ask these questions of all ranks, including star, life and eagle. By the way, my SMCs are fun. If a scout is not able to demonstrate enough of the skills for his rank, he does not pass. We then make another appointment at least a week away and he comes back ready to go. I rarely have a scout need more than 2 appointments to complete the conference. I remember my scoutcraft from my youth. I used scoutcraft during military training in the air force. In fact, I knew more about outdoors survival that the instructors due to scouts. I hope to provide the boys of my troop with life long skills in the same fashion that my SM did for me. I am reading Be Prepared by Rice Cochran. I just finished the chapter taking about the trail to eagle. He tells the story of a scout who has been rubber stamped in advancement. His younger brother incurs a fatal injury that, had the scout actually learned first aid, he could have saved his brother's life. Cochran tells him he was not responsible for his brother's death, rather the adults who let him slide were. I will never be that adult. Please let me know if there are other SMs out there who share this approach. - m