ManyIrons

The following is offered with tongue somewhat planted in cheek: Who is the chartered org? Where was the ceremony held? If the answer to either is the candidate's church, then I'd say you were on the minister's turf (home field advantage !). What was the "sermon" about? Was it sectarian? What was the minister asked to do as opposed to what was done? How was the rest of the ceremony? Perhaps more importantly, how did the candidate feel about it? Was the minister's actions inappropriate? I think we need the answers to the questions above before that can be answered. Without intending to sound flip: Q. How does one tactfully tell your speaker to limit his remarks to five minutes or less? A. "Mr./Mrs. Blank, here's a copy of the ceremony program, can you keep your remarks to about five minutes?" Q. How do you tell a preacher not to preach? A. I think the answer is you don't. If you've asked him/her to speak and you've left their remarks up to them what would you expect? What would you ask him to do? fgoodwin, please pardon me, I suspect I've had some fun at your expense. When the time comes for your son's Eagle CoH, use this as a lesson and don't leave anything to chance (assuming it occurred in this situation). Script the entire ceremony yourself, or use one of the many available on-line, and be up front with anyone you ask to speak. Case in point, my son and I wrote his entire CoH script and asked specific individuals to conduct portions of the ceremony. It was held in our church and the ministers were asked to deliver both the invocation and the benediction. We left the wording up to them (obviously) and both were very nice and very succinct. All in all, the entire ceremony took about 40 mins and we/he received a lot of great compliments (just ask purcelce!!).

They're known as "gateways" Go to this site: http://www.hurricanedistrict.org/pioneering.htm There's a link for an Adobe file with a bunch of pioneering plans at the bottom of the page.(This message has been edited by ManyIrons)(This message has been edited by ManyIrons)

In response to Acco's question: "Who presents the annual progam and to whom is it presented and at what venue? This summer I will particpate in my first annual planning session with the troop (I've been the SM for less than a year). When it is complete, both the SPL and I will present it to the committee at the next committee meeting. If that sounds like a contradiction from my previous post it isn't. As before, I'm just following BSA guidance.

Our committee chair kept suggesting that our SPL attend the committee meetings to brief them on the troops activities. I politely disagreed. I let them know that I was not being obstinate, but that BSA guidance clearly states that the committee interacts with the PLC through the Scoutmaster. She countered that the committee felt that it would help the Scouts to better interact with the adults. I gently pointed out that meeting with 1 Scout had no benefit for the rest of the troop and if increasing the Scout's interaction with adults was the goal, it could easily be satisfied by having the committee members work with their Scout counterparts (secretary with the scribe; equipment coordinator with the quartermaster, etc) and they could hold more boards of review (theyre not just for advancement). She never raised the issue again, and resigned a short time later (gosh, I hope it wasn't me and those darn official procedures!) Now it wasnt my goal to shut her up. I was just trying to get the committee to follow the BSA format. Short answer: Our SPL does not attend. I don't see the benefit, especially in light of existing guidance.(This message has been edited by ManyIrons)

That's the spirit Miami, altitude is proportional to attitude. Best of luck, and do keep us posted.

u58y8748uhj [034q5t8rfc -0439h0n8v 4e [That's me banging my head against the keyboard!] This Scouting stuff would be great if it weren't for the adults. The renegade adults that is.

Miami, I apologize for not responding sooner, I had to leave town on short notice for a family emergency. I believe your best course of action is to help your troop become a true boy-led organization. I understand that your concern is with the low attendance at camporees, but that is only a symptom of your troops problem. The actual problem is your troop is not boy-led. You have a vested interest in getting them back on track simply because you're a member of the troop. However it is even more imperative since you are a troop guide (member of the PLC) and a leader/mentor to the new Scout patrol. Heres what I recommend: 1. Approach the SPL and other members of the PLC to discuss the need to hold monthly PLC meetings. Help them to understand the concept of a boy-led troop and the need for them to take on the responsibility of planning/deciding on the troops activities. For help with this, review the applicable sections of the Senior Patrol Leader Handbook or the Patrol Leader Handbook. If you or your troop does not have these, make a recommendation to your troop Librarian that they be purchased. 2. If that doesnt work, speak with your Scoutmaster and ask his advice on how to energize the PLC. Remember your concern here is to help the Scouts in your troop become better leaders, not to increase attendance at council events -- thats a worthy goal, but first things first. 3. If neither of those approaches work, try enlisting the assistance of another adult in the troop, or perhaps in your OA lodge. Remember all of the above should be done in a non-confrontational manner. Just an honest, respectful discussion on what you can do to help the Scouts in your troop to become better leaders. One final point to remember: your camporee attendance may not improve even when your troop is truly boy-led, but at least it will be the decision of the Scouts. I hope this helps. Please keep us updated on your progress and dont hesitate to ask more questions.

Miami, To be honest, I think I already know whats going on in your troop, but to be fair and open-minded, the question needs to be asked: Have you or anyone else ever brought these concerns to the SM, or other adult leaders (assistant SMs, Committee Chair, etc)?

Sctldr, The Army is neither the only, nor the first to use that style of representation of the U.S. flag. It's a common in aviation, here's one: http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/military/af1/flash.html(This message has been edited by ManyIrons)

A few more questions Miami Chief, What is your role in the troop, I see you're a chapter chief but do you also have a troop POR (PL, OA Rep, JASM, ASM, etc.)? Does your troop use the patrol method? Do you have a PLC which plans each month's activities? And by this I mean the Scouts, not the adults. Have you discussed the camporees with the patrol leaders? What do they want to do? Knowing these answers will help us understand your situation more and better enable us to give you advice.(This message has been edited by ManyIrons)

Amen, J-in-KC, Amen As for the Army uniform . . . and the wheel, goes round . . . When will we learn? I remember in the early 80s when the Air Force was replacing the colorful patches on its fatigue uniform (a.k.a. pickle suit). As I understood it, experience up to that point taught us that the bright colors defeated the purpose of a subdued uniform - - especially the ones we tended to wear on the left breast pocket (yikes!). Anyway I was a bit perplexed when I first saw the full color flag on the Army BDU (being deployed uniform ). Im sorry to hear that my suspicions were correct, but glad to hear its being corrected. Also here in flyover country -- a few hours east and slightly south of your position (think big arch). (This message has been edited by ManyIrons)

I've seen it several times, and so far it seems to have a low success rate. The boys do make Eagle, but it always seems the Scouts are driving by themselves several months before their Eagle is complete (17 yrs and some odd months). Personally I haven't (and won't) do this to my boys. It's not that I'm against "negative reinforcement", but this falls into the category of wanting it more than the Scout does. I would defintitely find a different way to motivate my sons.

Miami Chief, From reading your posts, it sounds to me that your problem lies with your adult leaders. the troop dosen't take the spring and fall camporees into consideration when planning the year. (this is done mainly by adult leaders with some input from scouts) [emphasis added by ManyIrons] Is that a fair interpretation? If so, then are you asking how to deal with the adults or are you looking for advice on which event to attend?

Okay, I checked out the good folks at the Levine Hat Company and I've decided that No, I would not look good in a fedora. I do however like the "Stetson Airway" (straw shade hat) - I think I could pull that one off. Too bad there isn't a Scout version of that hat style (he said while backing away from that particular slippery slope). [sigh] If anyone from national is perusing this thread, I'd like to make a personal request to have nice, wide-brim, ventinlated hat for us leaders to wear in the summer, the above mentioned hat would make a nice addition. If there's no room to add it to the Scout Stuff catalog, may I suggest you remove the "Island Camp Shirt". A straw hat would fit nicely in that amount of space

I too never used to be a hat person, but as the years roll on Ive discovered that I need to wear one. My problem isnt thinning hair, its that Im still growing - - yup, and Im pushing my hair right out of the way. Therefore I now need to shade the top of my noggin (at least until I stop growing and my hair catches up). I usually don a ball cap if Ill be outside for any length of time. Most of my hats are Scout related (wonder how that happened?), but my favorite is my BSA Expedition hat. It keeps the sun off of my neck and the rain off of my nose. Unfortunately its too hot to wear in the summer, but that just gives me another reason to look forward to cooler weather (i.e. Spring and Autumn). You didnt ask, but Ill share. My least favorite hat is the green and red Scout hat. I have nothing against the hat, its just that I dont think I look very good in it. Of course that has more to do with my face than the hat itself. I wonder how Id look in a fedora? [Amen, Packsaddle]

Packsaddle, you're right "passion" and "emotion" are both defined as "a strong feeling". I was however using them in terms of their common connotations (apologies, my experiences may be shading my perception here). Passion/passionate has a positive connotation ("his performance was a passionate portrayal . . ") and suggests an element of control, while emotion/emotional tends to have a more negative connotation ("Gee, you don't have to get so emotional about it") suggesting a lack of control. Of course the phrase "crime of passion" implies just the opposite, so all of the above goes right out the window. However; I think most readers, like you, caught my inference. But we digress from Eamonn's intent for this thread.

Im late to the discussion as usual (I was camping this past weekend), but Ill place myself with Eamonn et al. Im all for open discussions and dissenting opinions when theyre civil, but too many participants allow their emotions to overrule their manners. Its one thing to be passionate, quite another to be emotional. With regard to the recent unpleasantness, Im disappointed by what I interpret as a sense of satisfaction some members appear to exhibit over the ACLUs success in lawsuits against the BSA. If anyone is posting here simply to bait others, or as an attempt to rub someones nose in a recent litigation, then as Eamonn requested, and many of us seconded, please leave.

Okay F.B, if we're going to be technical Yup, lightning can (and does) strike twice. If said spot was a good path once, it'll be a good path again. "So wear very thick and dry tennis shoes" -- tongue in cheek? The dampness and thickness of one's footwear won't make any difference to lightning. As noted above, if you're a good path . . .well you're a good path. ES316 I don't think dluders meant the whole thing - just several variations davideagle89 -- did any of our musings help?

Greetings and welcome to the forum. I spent a few years in Raleigh (Go Pack!) while attending "gradual" school. Loved my time there. Hope you enjoy your time here as well.

Yup.

I agree with OGE et al, what does your son want? Personally I cant fathom how one person wearing the uniform will detract from anothers moment. If that were somehow true then only the Eagle candidate should be in uniform.

We did the Tunnel Hill to Vienna portion of the trail last year and had a great time. We started at Tunnel Hill -- near the entrance to the tunnel and traveled to Vienna. The tunnel itself is awesome (over 500 feet long) and really dark (make sure you have some lights and tail reflectors -- it can be a bit disorienting in there). That portion of the trail is very scenic -- several railroad bridges/trestles, even some 19th century graffiticarved into a few of the rocks, presumably by RR workers. You really have to look for it to spot it. We took a break at Vienna. Theres a small RR museum there and you can purchase trail patches at a visitors center across the parking lot (not the same building as the museum). Theres a water fountain in the museum, but theres no food available -- pack some sandwiches or some trail meals. After that we traveled back to Tunnel Hill. Our boys had a great time. We took our sweet ol time (we had a wide variety of ability -- our boys ranged in age from 12 - 17) and actually spent most of the day on the trail - about 5 hrs. We could have gone faster, but we just didnt see any reason to. Here are a few other websites, but they have essentially the same info http://illinois.sierraclub.org/Shawnee/sites/s-tunnel_hill_bike_trail.htm http://dnr.state.il.us/orep/planning/th_info.htm

Camp Joy, Okaw Valley in Illinois: Scout: $140.00 Troop Discount: $25.00 ** Total Scout Fee: $115.00 Webelos who crossover in 2005 pay only $115.00 if paid by June 1st. Adults: $50.00 ** To qualify for the discount, the troop must complete 3 of the following, and pay by May 1st: - Hold a camp promotion night during Jan - Mar - Attend a camp workday - Complete OA elections before June 1st - Hold a Family Friends of Scouting presentation (This message has been edited by ManyIrons)

Hmmm, kinda tough. How about "Flash, Bang! Flash, Bang!", maybe add a "Zap!" at the end or, "Never Strike Twice!" and then there's a line from the "If I Weren't A Boy Scout" skit: "Positive, Negative let the juices flow!" Hope some of that helped.

KS, I wish we had your problem, i.e., Eagle Scouts with a good 2-3 years left. To date, all of ours have been of the deathbed variety (Haliaeetus leucocephalus mortalitas cubile). All, except one, are rarely ever heard from again. It certainly can be a reflection of the unit, or its leader -- weve lost a few to the poor behavior of some former SMs. All the Scouts were close to aging-out, but it still means we lost potential assistant SMs. However; in my experience you normally need look no further than the folks who have been driving the Scouts to the meetings. When Mom and Dad treat Scouting as simply college application fodder its tough to overcome. My tenure as SM only began 6 months ago, but like you I try to get the Scouts to understand its a journey not a destination. I take every opportunity to stress the concept of brotherhood and helping those who follow behind you. I wont know how well Im doing for another couple of years. Ive got a great bunch of 1st year Scouts that all want to be the youngest Eagles in the troop. At the moment they cant wait to start showing the new guys the ropes. Time will tell. Wish me luck.