ManyIrons

Unless a unit has been attending council events without paying then no one has been getting a "free ride". And as for what units expect from their councils all I can say is that I expect them to do their job -- as they expect me to do mine. If processing paperwork competently and on time is a burden then they're not doing their job. That portion of their responsibilities should have nothing to do with popcorn money or FOS. Flame on.

Owl, It's a tricky subject, but one where it's always best to err on the side of etiquette. If you prefer to be called by your first name and it doesn't cause problems with other adults in your unit, more power to you. Addressing someone you do not know, or is older than you by Mr., Mrs., Sir, Ma'am is a sign of respect. Some refer to it as a courtesy or manners, but by doing it you are being respectful of another person's dignity. Assuming familiarity by using first names without permission is being disrespectful of another person's wishes. You say you were taught "to address adults as Mr. Mrs. Miss, Ms. I was never told it was respectful. Just do it." It may not have been explained, but it is implied and to have done otherwise would have been disrespectful of your parent's wishes. I can respect your preference to be addressed by your first name without knowing you or having respect for you as a person, but does that make it any less respectful? By the same token, referring to someone formally after they've asked you to use their first name would be disrespectful. You may respect that person deeply as an individual, but to ignore their stated preference is -- disrespectful. In the end, I find it best to offer the courtesy of formality. If I'm asked to do otherwise I comply -- although it can be difficult. My pastor prefers to be called by his first name only although he'll never correct you if stick with the formal. I've found that I can address him by his first name, but whenever I refer to him I tend to add the "Rev". When I meet my former commanders or supervisors I automatically use Sir/Ma'am. There are some I definitely do not respect in any way, but I respect the fact that they attained a higher rank than I did. Virtually all of them request that I use their first names and I admit it feels strange at times -- but I respect their preferences.

Folks, I am chagrined. I've been having trouble (like many) accessing the forum for several days now, and I only just stumbled onto this thread while taking the long way in. I appreciate all your kind words and well wishes. It was a quick 23, but it was enjoyable. The Air Force afforded me the opportunity to do things I might not have been able to do otherwise (the neatest of which was my tour at Cape Canaveral AFS supporting rocket launches -- best fireworks in the world!!). Thanks go to purcelce not only for his kind words, but for ensuring our pastor made it to the ceremony. We had a bit of an nasty snowstorm that morning which only compounded the hassle of getting through security at the gates. Thanks brother!! This holiday season keep the men and women of our armed forces in your thoughts and prayers. Not just those folks who are in harms' way (give them extra prayers), but everyone who serves throughout the world. And while you're at it, devote some thoughts to their spouses and families. They too serve and sacrifice. Peace and glad tidings to you all this holiday season. God bless.

Eamonn, I'm with ya on the merit badge thing. This year in one of my Summer Camp Prep emails to the parents I specifically cautioned them about using the number of completed badges to rate the quality of camp: "Finally, when your son comes home please guage the quality of his summer camp experience by the enthusiasm he shows when talking about the things he did, the friends he met, and the opportunities he shared. In other words measure the success of his camp experience by the amount of fun he had, not by the number of badges he completed." Did it work? Not even close. Too many Scouts view summer camp as the merit badge express lane (safety in numbers, cooperate and graduate) and this is reinforced by their parents -- usually the same ones that want me to schedule Eagle required merit badges as part of the troop meetings so "these kids can get their requirements done". Just for the record, my son, "Young Many Irons", spent the whole week at the C.O.P.E course. He checked out a few merit badge classes, but didn't complete a single one. What was his assessment? He loved it and wants to do C.O.P.E again next year. As for the dining hall issue, I don't care if it's there or not. We camp approximately 9 other times a year and the Scouts cook at every one of them. If you're not cooking throughout the year, 1 week at summer camp won't make up for the other 51. My only complaint about dining halls is that it's usually 1000 degrees in there. Why do so many councils think a D.H must have 4 walls? Pavilions are the way to go!!

In our troop all adults are referred to as Mr. or Mrs. as the case may be. (It's Mr. in mine) My Scouts do refer to purcelce as "Mr. Purcell", but only partially for the reason he gave -- it's also because he gives such a good reaction Interestingly this topic came up almost 2 years ago -- and it was a 5-pager! Here's the link: http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=49833#id_49833

22 years and counting. Over the past 11 years Scouting has been expanding to fill my available time and the wife has graciously been at my side all along (she's even a troop committee member). Of course, I work hard at remembering to provide her with equal time. As with purcelce (Hey Cary!), I too credit Scouting with bringing me back to church and strengthening my family.

The USSSP site has an extensive overview of the various camp honor societies over the years. Here's the link: http://usscouts.org/usscouts/honorsociety.asp Perhaps the best known one, at least in the Missouri region, is the Tribe of Mic-O-Say: http://mic-o-say.org/ There are many variants of this organization, one is the Tribe of Mannaseh in the Okaw Valley Council (Illinois). Good luck with your efforts.

It would seem to me that satisfying the list of requirements in dancin's second post should be enough. Requiring people to "give up" beads, and work a new ticket strikes me as insulting (and I'm a graduate of the new course). I realise the Bill Hillcourt question is a hypothetical, but asking him to take a Wood Badge course would be like asking the Pope to repeat divinity school. I'd love to know the rationale behind these changes. Thanks for the heads up dancin'.

Thanks Acco, I forgot to look there. And for a 3rd iteration see the Boy Scout Handbook, 11th edition, pages 85 and 412. This version list the same 6 actions from the back of the card as "requirements". That falls in line with the Scout Requirements book (an optional pub), but doesn't match what's on the card. I guess if you go 2 out of 3 . . . And some wonder why there's so much angst out there in the great Scout nation. Giddonah, see what you've started?! No other patches, other than OA lodge insignia, on the pocket flap? Then why, oh why, did someone at National approve a patch in the shape of a flap, but only authorized to go on the pocket (or blanket, or vest)? Come on, one of you lurking professionals fess up (we know you're out there).

Here! Here! again ScoutNut. The last time I saw a Totin' Chip produced it was rather lumpy and didn't have any discernable corners. Good thing I'm not into that corner-cutting thing Okay, I did a crazy thing and went and read the Totin' Chip card. Now I'm even more confused. According to the front of the card, the only requirement to issue it is for the Scout to read the "woods tools use and safety rules" and acknowledge that "ownership or use of woods tools means responsibility" and "accepts it". No fuss, no muss. "I read it, you bethca, where's my card Mr. Scoutmaster?". Note: I know it's not that simple, but you get my drift. "In consideration of the above, he is hereby granted Totin' Rights". Thus, perhaps the evolution of the "I forgot my Totin' Chip, can I still use my knife?" conversation FScouter referred to. The back of the card says "I will take this card to my Scout leader, or someone designated by my leader and do the following: . . " , but he doesn't actually have to do any of the actions listed, except the first one which is required to get the card (which he already has . . . hmmmmmmmm) And, the same holds true for the Firem'n Chit!! AAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHA!!

Here! Here! to ScoutNut and FScouter. I guess Im in the minority that doesnt see the need for either the card or cutting the corners. Im all for the instruction, but I wish BSA would just add it all to the rank requirements. However, until such time, I will continue to see that our new Scouts receive the instruction, but I wont cut corners off the card. If theres an infraction, our leaders will deal with it on the spot. If its a serious incident well involve the parents and committee. I dont see the need for anything else.

Okay T, I'll bite. Which "G" (God, Girls, or Gays) are you referring to?

I wuz just a fun'in G.B. Gotta admit, it was funny to see an admonishment (in the gentle/friendly reproof sense of the word) over the interpretation of the definition of the word "admonishment". Now that there's funny

Now that's an admonition, and apparently worth saying twice. Or was that an echo?

I like it!!

Watercub, there was a similar thread a few months ago. Here's the link: http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=98495#id_98495 Let us know how you're doing/what you're going to do. I used to be a buffalo (and I still retain all the charming qualities )

After two near disasters with School Night for Scouting (the school forgot to handout the flyers last Spring and this Fall) I decided to take a different route I put out the council-provided promotional materials and sign-up sheets at our towns annual Founders Day. We normally run a few booths for fundraising so I set the materials on the counter at each booth. I got six boys (with their parents) to sign-up in one afternoon. Four of the boys visited us at our last troop meeting and the other two will be visiting next week. On top of that I've got 2 other prospects from boy-to-boy recruiting and two others referred to us by the council. Like many others, we're also taking a proactive approach with the Webelos in our "feeder" pack. We're inviting them to attend council events with us and looking for other opportunities to interact with them (campouts, skits/ceremonies at Pack Meetings, etc). Our plan is to make ourselves (and our activities) so familiar to them that it's only natural that they want to become part of our troop. Another method that seems to work is to be visible in your community. This past May we placed flags in the local cemetery and conducted a Memorial Day Ceremony at our village hall. Both events were covered by the local papers and were very well received by the community. The village wants us to do it all again and has also asked us to take the lead for their 9-11 ceremony next year. The visibility has paid off. We've received inquiries from parents from neighboring communities asking if their sons can join our troop when they bridge over. This is the first year we've done these things, but so far it appears to be working well for us.

The Eagle Award ribbon is the medal you were presented at your Court of Honor. The palms are worn on the ribbon portion. Per page 46 of the Insignia Guide, medals (5 at a time) may be worn immediately above the seam of the left pocket (i.e., the pin goes right above the seam so that most of the scroll is above the pocket flap). Note: Normally when there's a cloth patch and a medal that mean the same thing they're not worn at the same time. For my two cents, I say wear the medal (with the palms on the ribbon) only on special occasions (e.g. court of honor) and wear it as described above. You might also check with your Scoutmaster and/or your council office for their guidance. Good luck.

Get thee to an Insignia Guide hendrickms24 is correct. On page 23 of the 2003-2005 Insignia Guide it says: "worn only on the Eagle Award ribbon or Eagle Square Knot" Congratulations by the way for staying active as an Eagle Scout. Keep up the good work and keep earning those palms.

Famous Phrases Never Uttered: Gee, Im sure glad I didnt finish my Eagle rank My oldest son was going like gang-busters right up through his project, but then slowed down through the last few badges and took an eternity to complete the write-up and go through the board of review process. He completed his Eagle rank about 6 weeks prior to his 18th birthday. During his slow period I would occasionally ask him how it was going. I usually received the Im working on it but I knew he wasnt. Finally I gave him the line at the top of my post and then told him whether he finished or not was up to him, but as a father I didnt want him to regret not finishing. I cant say for certain that it was my little speech that convinced him to finish. As a Scoutmaster Ive been steadfast in my conviction that I do not make Eagle Scouts thats not my job. Instead I teach, encourage, mentor, guide, coach, inspire, coax, etc. Of course thats easy when the Scout is not your son. As a father its hard not to meddle, but another of my convictions (and admonitions to parents) is that you cant allow yourself to want it more than he does. I applaud the path youre taking. You already know OJ is a quality individual and that wont change regardless of what he chooses to do about his Eagle rank. From your posts I picture him as a mature, confident individual who knows what he wants and knows how to go about making it happen. Those type of people are successful in life because of their innate inner qualities, not because of the rank they achieved in Scouting. If I had to offer any advice to you it would be to try the no regrets line of reasoning, but Im not sure you need advice, like I said I applaud the path youre taking. Best Wishes.

Alcohol too Ed?! Say it isn't so! "Don't look Ethel!"

Whoa! Hugging, butt-slapping and Elton John songs?! I think I'll just mosey inside and see if there's any pie left.

Eamonn, I understand completely. When my eldest son graduated from high school 3 months ago I got a chance to see a few of the boys from his Cub Scout den. It brought back a lot of great memories and I too think (wistfully) about returning to Cub Scouting when my youngest son moves on from the troop. My path isn't clear. If he gravitates toward Venturing I suppose I'll feel a responsibility to move with him (and selfishly spend more time with him). However; I also feel a "tug" from our OA lodge as well as from the council (they're doing the tugging). I know I can find any number of ways to help the program and enjoy myself no matter where I end up. The only thing certain (as with you) is that eventually I will move on. I wish you well with your challenges. From your posts, you've always struck me as a calm, level-headed, clear thinker. I have to believe you'll do well (and serve others) in whatever choice you make.

Just got back from annual planning, where I previewed the Scout Zone video for the PLC. They all thought it was "pretty good" and agreed that we should include it at our display during School Night for Scouting. Sidebar. The annual planning conference went very well. Anyone who tells you that it isn't necessary for a good program or that the Scouts aren't really able to do that type of planning is flat out wrong. My Scouts developed a great program with some really neat goals. They impressed me with the quality of their ideas and suggestions. It was inspiring to me and the assistant Scoutmasters. We're looking forward to helping them work their plan.

CubScoutJo, I'm not sure who's targeted to receive these - I'd guess the Scoutmaster and perhaps committee chair. The instructions say "Feel free to duplicate it". Check with your council if no one in your unit received one. Hopefully they'll add this to the Scout Zone website. I do wonder if this is a Boy Scout only item or if similar DVDs were created for Cubs and Venturers. Anyone know? Purcelce, Not to worry, we'll have a half-dozen Scouts to police the premises. P.S. Check your home email - we need help with a summer camp blue card.