ManyIrons

Dsteele, Like nldscout, and no doubt many other active/retired military members here, Ive done my share of moving. Ive had 9 assignments in 20 years. During my first 4 years I averaged less than 18 months at any one assignment. After my first ten years I had an average time on station of about 2 years. Of the nine assignments only 3 were the typical 3-year length. None of this is remarkable by military standards. Moving is part of the equation and considered necessary to develop the proper breadth of experience and to take on increasingly challenging jobs. I suspect the same is true for the professionals in BSA. I always counseled my troops to figure out what it was in life that would make them happy, determine the path necessary to get there, and then to make it happen. My advice to you is the same. Only you know what your goals are, and Im sure you know what you need to do to achieve them. It sounds like youve already committed to doing that, but youre obviously not happy about leaving a place youve come to love. Regrettably it goes with the job. However, just because you leave a place doesn't mean you can't ever return. So would I call you a nomad? No, nor would I give that appellation to a military member or any other career that requires moving as part of its culture. One meaning of the nomad is wanderer which implies one is aimless and has a lack of purpose. Even from my short time on this forum I wouldnt use that to characterize you. If I have to leave you with one thought it would be this: Dont think of yourself as a nomad, try to think of yourself as a voyageur. From reading your posts I think its a more apt description.

I have a hardcover Budworth book titled "The Ultimate Encyclopedia of Knots & Ropework". I really like it. It has similar features/format to the one you mentioned. Not sure of the price (it was a Father's Day gift). I also have "The Handbook of Knots" by Des Pawson (softcover, under $20). I like it too, but the Budworth book is more thorough. I'm really interested in seeing the Ashley book. I can't find a copy in any of the local bookstores so I'm currently searching the libraries. I'd be willing to lay out the money if I like the book, but not unless I really like it. Thanks for passing along the references.

dsteele you're right about the anxiety level of the Scouts who show up to do a presentation. Some of the boys look down right petrified. Fortunately, the chairman is a very affable fellow (the other members of the committee are too) and works on putting the Scout at ease before they begin their presentation. Of course the other boys waiting their turn see this and it has a calming effect. By the time the 5th or 6th Scout comes up, they seem fairly relaxed. But it's definitely because the committee works at creating a friendly, mentoring atmosphere. To piggyback on your suggestion to get youth feedback, I asked my son how he felt (in retrospect) about his experience with the committee. He said he preferred the oral presentation and wasn't particularly nervous (anxious yes, worried no) because he had observed other presentations. He was also anxious to start the project and saw the oral presentation as a way to streamline the process. OGE: Looking at the original post, I can't tell if you're contemplating switching to the oral presentation, or adding it as an option. As much as I'd advocate the presentation, I would recommend it be optional. Hope this helps.

OGE, I highly recommend it. Our council has both. In addition to accepting written proposals, they also have an open time for Eagle project presentations on the same night/location as Roundtable. I don't know what percentage of the boys choose the oral presentation, but we seem to average 4-6 per month. The advantages are exactly what you stated. I've been fortunate to sit in on a few of the presentations and for some of the proposed projects, the feedback process would possibly have added 1 to 2 months onto the Scout's timeline. With the oral presentation, everything was resolved on the spot. Another benefit of the presentations is that they are open for anyone to observe. I've encouraged the Scouts in my troop to attend as a spectator. I think it's an excellent way for them to prepare for their presentations to troop and district. So far, only a few have taken the advice, my son being one of them. By the way, when my son did his presentation he used a PowerPoint briefing to summarize all the details. He printed the sheets out and set it up in a loose leaf binder so he could flip through the charts. He placed his project binder on the table in front of the committee so they could review it. The committee loved the format and the chairman has even requested a personal copy to use as an example. In his words, it was an excellent way for my son to organize himself and allowed him to control the flow of the presentation.

Wow living and learning! Pamaha: A belated welcome from a fellow newbie. Glad to hear your CO has a solution to the problem. I hope its all resolved soon and positively. Bob White: With regard to the training comments we agree. I noted the lack of a training requirement as potential problem with my initial sign em up reaction. I was very surprised to find out that the training isnt required and was attempting to point out that that type of solution probably wouldnt be much help in pamahas case. Apologies if I didnt articulate it adequately. How can committee members support a program without knowing what the program methods, aims and mission are? Again we agree. Ive taken every training class I could and got copies of the manuals/handbooks for the every position Ive held. To me it is a requirement if I want to do the job correctly I need the proper tools. DSteele/Bob White: Without intending to hijack this thread, please help me with another one. Is the charter issued to the CO directly from BSA or is it issued by the council? I guess my real question is who does the CO answer to? Thanks

Interesting dilemma. Not sure what grounds could be used to deny a parent to join the committee. Without question, the troop is "owned" by the chartering organization, but the Troop Committee Guidebook states "there is no maximum limit to the number of troop committee members". I agree with Scoutldr, in fact my first reaction was "Good. Sign 'em up and get 'em trained". Depending on what your troop's program is, you just might have a whole flock of converts. Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut I can't find anything in the guide that says committee members must be trained. It states that the COR "encourages training" and the Training Coordinator is supposed to "ensure troop leaders and committee members have opportunities for training". I suppose the CO could say that the "inn is full", but I don't know if they could make it stick. Sounds like a good question for our resident professional.

Gang, here's a pretty good resource for knotting images: http://www.adtdl.army.mil/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/fm/5-125/fm5-125.htm It's an US Army field manual titled "FM 5-125, Rigging Techniques, Procedures and Applications". You only need chapter 2. Cheers

Let's see, today's is Nov 15th, so carry the "1" and drop the "0" . . . I'm 45. Actually I usually just say that I'm old enough to vote, but too young for social security, so my current age doesn't really matter. When my boys were still very young I taught them to always answer "29" if anyone ever asked the question "How old is your mother?". My wife has never felt the need to hide her age, but I take every opportunity I get to bank brownie points

KA6BSA: Good points to remember. I've always felt I was pretty good at spatial conceptualization. My Dad never worked in any of the fields you mentioned, but he did attend a vocational high school back in the 1940s and apparently had to deal with (and draw) many "exploded" diagrams. He never characterized it as something he enjoyed, but perhaps subconciously he was attracted to the challenge. He's also always been fascinated by gadgets and figuring out puzzles of all kinds. Blade: You're already where I'm headed. I haven't decided on the exact knots for each level yet. I'm reviewing them one at a time (using 5 different sources) to, as F.O.G. pointed out, make sure each offers advantages not provided by others in the same category. Admittedly it's tough. Some of the differences are subtle, but I like this kind of challenge and I'm learning a lot about knotting in the process. Handouts will absolutely be a part of the new program - to me they're indespensible. TwoCubDad: I know what you mean. I did my first splicing at Summer Camp this year while helping my son decipher his Pioneering MB homework. I used to relegate that kind of stuff to the "not for me" pile, but now I think it's pretty cool and one of the things on my big list of things I want to conquer. Thanks also for the reference, I'll check it out. All: In my previous post I was wrong about whippings not really being knots. They are actually (along with lashings and seizings) special forms of binding knots. This group has been a great help to me in the endeavor. I hope to return the favor.

Thanks to all who have provided suggestions. I really like them and will work them into my version of the program. For those of you who wanted more information about the program as it was given to me (Red Feather, Blade 1158, and JoePro), Im listing the details below. However, as I said in my previous post, there are problems with the program: 1. There was no effort to associate specific knots to specific levels (e.g. the Hitch Knotter level only contains 2 hitches while the Knowledgeable Knotter level has 5 hitches). Remember, the original author put this together as a way to interest Scouters in knotting and just to have fun at Roundtable. 2. The program doesnt provide diagrams or instructions on how to tie the knots. Each participant must locate them on his/her own. I think this may have a lot to do with the lack of interest. 3. Some of the knots arent knots (e.g. whipping, splicing, grommet). Granted these items are often included in books on knotting, but they arent knots and I think it just makes things confusing. Here are the levels (in order) and their associated knots: Square Knotter: Square knot, Figure 8 stopper knot, Overhand knot, Bowline, Sheet Bend, Taut-line Hitch, Clove Hitch, Two-Half Hitches, Half Hitch, whip the end of a rope. Lashing Knotter: Timber Hitch, Square lashing, Tripod lashing, Diagonal lashing, Bowline on a bight, Round lashing, Shoelace knot, Clove Hitch to a vertical post, Sheepshank, Granny knot. Bending Knotter: Turks Head, Eye splice, Millers knot, Truckers knot, Surgeons knot, Fishermans knot, Japanese/Norwegian Square lashing, Slippery Sheet Bend, Double Sheet Bend, Carrick Bend. Hitch Knotter: Monkeys Fist, Back Splice, Killick Hitch, Lariat Loop (a.k.a. Honda), Chain knot, Double Carrick Bend, Thief knot, Double Overhand knot stopper knot, Marlinspike Hitch, Stevedore knot. Knowledgeable Knotter: Short splice, Pipe Hitch, Hunters Bend, Larks Head (a.k.a. Cow Hitch), Waggoners Hitch, Prusik knot w/Double Fishermans Knot, Grommet, Canoe Hitch (a.k.a. Slippery Half-Hitch), Marling Hitch (also spelled as Marline), Binder-Twine Bend. Program Rules: - Self-Study program. Take as much time as you like at each level. - A minimum of 30 days is required between levels. - Certification requires the knots be tied in the presence of another Scouter without any diagrams or other help. - Beads/Certificates are awarded at Roundtable. Note: Many of the knots were taken from a book titled Knotcraft by Allan and Paulette Macfarlan (1967). I was able to find a copy in my local library. Sorry for not including this stuff earlier, but as I said, I was more interested in discussing methods of generating interest and teaching rather than the programs specifics. Im currently working on revising the program to correct the problems stated above and to include the ideas offered here. I hope to have a good working draft by mid to late December (I need to run it by my Roundtable and UoS folks). Of course I also have to finish my Wood Badge ticket by the end of Dec too. Ill be happy to share my results when Im finished. In the meantime, please feel free to pass along anymore ideas you may have.

Eamonn: Sorry if I gave the impression that it was 50 knots in a day -- definitely not the plan! I'd be the one folks were calling "tetched" if I even contemplated such an undertaking. Technically the program wouldn't allow 50 knots in a day. The copy I have stipulates a minimum of 30 days between each level, other than that the participant can take as much time as they want. Red Feather: I can send you a copy of the program, but to be honest there are problems with it. First and foremost, there is no "grand design" to the program. The knots were selected somewhat at random and the naming of the levels was basically arbitrary. I'm not throwing darts at the original author -- I really like the concept and the guy was gracious enough to answer my questions and provide suggestions. His only goal was to generate interest and have fun. He even gave his blessing for me (and others) to tinker with it. Gauging the audience is definitely one of my objectives, and to that end I plan on reworking the program to give it a grand design. I don't want to delve into those specifics right now -- as I said in my original post, I'm looking for feedback on methods that have worked or not worked. I'll be more than happy to share the finished product. Thanks for the comments and well wishes. ManyIrons

Greetings all, permission to join your virtual campfire. I'm looking for advice, lessons learned, best practices, etc., for teaching knots to adult leaders as part of a council-wide program. I've volunteered to promote the "Master Knotter" program at our annual University of Scouting this upcoming January and I really want to set this up for success. For those of you unfamiliar with the program, it was created several years ago by a Scouter in the Gamehaven Council (Minnesota) as a fun way to generate interest in knotting among the adult leaders. Without going into too much detail, the program is divided into 5 levels, each containing 10 knots. Thus to complete the program (and become a Master Knotter) each participant must learn 50 knots. Some versions of the program award certificates upon completion of each level, others use beads on leather belt fobs. I've scoured the net and found some great ideas (e.g. teaching aids, games, incentives, etc.), but what I'm looking for now is feedback from folks who done this, or anything like it, so I can either build on their successes or at least avoid similar pitfalls. I've corresponded with the author of the program (who unfortunately had very little success with it in his own council), as well as a Scouter in North Carolina who has been able to generate interest among Cub Scout leaders, but not the Boy Scout leaders. Both of these gentlemen have been very helpful, but since I have another 2 months before UoS, I thought it might be a good idea to cast a wider net. Any suggestions? ManyIrons