ManyIrons

He also massacred Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds. Come to think of it, he pretty much butchered everything he attempted to sing.

Don't feel bad Eamonn, it was a great tale and you deserve to feel good about the experience. Thanks for sharing it. Exactly what do you mean by "tracks"? I myself have about 30-35 Beatle albums -- yes, on vinyl although I don't currently have the ability to play them (the belt on the turntable is kaput). Among those albums are some bootleg copies I acquired in the '70s of the Beatles live at Shea Stadium NY, live at the Buddo Kan (Sp?) hall in Japan, and . . . . the Christmas collection (1963-69). It'd be great if they would release that last one on a CD! I'm slowly acquiring the CD versions of the albums. I found it interesting that the CD releases are mirroring the British versions of the records. It makes it somewhat strange for me and I sometimes have to hunt through a few before I find the song I'm looking for. I understand what you mean about the Anthology growing. I was just looking at a copy today and saying to myself "where did this 3rd volume come from?". Happy New Year!

TwocubDad you made me laugh out loud just at the point I was about to abandon this thread. "Pool of sorrow, waves of joy are drifting through my open mind . . . "

"Words are flowing out like endless rain into a paper-cup, they slither while they pass, they slip away across the universe" Let me join NJ in recommending the new Beatles CD. After years of hearing the "Spectorized" versions, some of the songs definitely sound "naked" (or would that be ex-spectorized"?). One of my favorites is "Across the Universe" as you can see from the opening line of this post. I've always loved the imagery created by the lyrics and they seemed appropriate in this thread. Words do mean things folks, but in this case let it go. Characterize your affiliation with a unit anyway you like -- it's not whether you talk the talk, it's whether you walk the walk. Peace

We're staying home too -- It's become a tradition in our house to stay in and watch the old home "movies" (a.k.a videos). The kids are amazed to hear and see themselves when they were toddlers and it's a real kick for the wife and I to relive those moments too. Happy New Year to all -- best wishes for a healthy and prosperous year. Many Irons

"But we must do something, soon. The Enemy is moving." How's that CubsRgr8?

Fuzzy Bear - I like the idea of a post-event evaluation. I'm going to discuss it with our PLC.

This past year our troop used a questionnaire which offered examples of activities, camping, and events based on what the troop had done in the past and also provided space for the boys to add ideas of their own. The intent was to focus the feedback but still allow individual input/creativity. Only about 1/3 of the questionnaires were returned, but it provided the PLC with some definite vectors to work with.

Count me in too -- I'd like to see the results of the project also. In addition, let me add my answers to LauraT7's questions: How many of your SM/ASM's are trained and how far? SM: Finishing Wood Badge ASM #1: All training thru Wood Badge ASM #2: Finishing Wood Badge ASM #3: All training thru Outdoor Skills ASM #4: All training thru Outdoor Skills ASM #5: Untrained, uninterested, usually unreliable -- but he's got the vehicle to pull the trailer. Are any committee members trained? what percentage? Our exact number of committee members is still murky, but of the three known only 1 has definitely been trained up thru Outdoor Skills (that's the CC and she only completed that within the past 18 months -- after nearly 4 years in the position). The other member (Outdoor/Activities) may have training up thru Outdoor Skills. The final member (Advancements) has not had any training at all. Of the other 5 or so members at large I doubt any have ever had any training. As for the percentages you'll have to take your pick -- either 1 of 3 (33%) or 1 of ~8 (~12.5%). I'd agree with LauraT7 -- numbers like that are deplorable. I'll fall back on what I said in an earlier posting -- I'm surprised that training isn't required for the positions. I'm equally surprised that at least encouraging training isn't listed as one of the chairman's duties. I know, I know, that would be in the realm of the training coordinator, but the Committee Guidebooks doesn't list it as an essential position and even then his/her role is to "ensure troop leaders and committee members have opportunities for training." Heck, we always have opportunities, it seems that more often what is needed is someone to light a fire under some folks. Of course, when the CC shows no interest then what? Aw geez, now I've gone and depressed myself. Later, friends.

I asked for a lot of Scouting items but didn't get any -- but the amount was proportional to the amount of time I left the wife to find it. However; they did get me a Cedar Creek belt fob watch (I find wrist watches annoying -- too sweaty in summer and too cold in winter) and a book on birds native to our area. Both will come in handy when we resume camping in February. P.S. I'm making my 2004 list now so the family will have plenty of time to shop

Our council leaves the choice up to the recipient, but I've only seen them done at Roundtable in the format outlined by Bob White. It's a nice ceremony, and I plan to use it but it'll be done at one of our troop meetings. While I'd agree with Eamonn that the boys won't count their presence at a Wood Badge ceremony as one of the most memorable moments in their lives, it doesn't necessarily mean it won't have meaning to them. Case in point. A former SM went through Wood Badge a few years ago. To my knowledge he never shared any of the experiences with the boys and didn't invite any any of them to his ceremony. It was acknowledged after the fact at a troop meeting, but the boys really had no idea what they were clapping about. Bottom line: he never gave them any indication that they should care and they didn't. In contrast, when I and a fellow assistant SM went through Wood Badge we made a point of sharing the experience with the boys. It had nothing to do with the former SM, we just felt they should be included in the process. We've always worn our Wood Badge neckerchiefs and woggles. We always have something identifying our patrols with us. When working ticket items that required the troop's help, we explained the purpose of what we were doing and why and the Scout's were always eager to help. During a session on "spirit" we displayed our patrol flags, totems, and our hiking staves. They were fascinated by all of it. Do they fully comprehend the purpose of Wood Badge? No. Do they understand (on some level) that we're taking a training course to help us do a better job for them? Yes. For that reason alone the choice of where to hold the ceremony is easy for me. However, as it says in my Wood Badge binder: "You have taken a challenge to improve your knowledge of the Scouting program and to enhance your abilities to provide leadership to youth". In addition, the ticket is intended to be worked in support of that portion of the "BSA program in which you are involved." After 18 months of working to improve my leadership and to strengthen my unit, I couldn't conceive of holding my ceremony anyplace other than in front of the 35 reasons I had for taking the training in the first place. All that remains is to consult with the PLC to see when we can schedule the ceremony.

Merry Christmas to all and heartfelt best wishes for a joyous and prosperous New Year! ManyIrons P.S. I would have liked to have extended my wishes earlier, but as of midnight I was like purcelce was 2 days ago. I was done by 2AM, but wasn't particularly articulate at that moment. Purcelce I hope you fared better than I.

This year for the first time, in who knows how long, our boys selected the summer camp. We gave them a sheet with details on 6 different camps. One of them is our council camp and the others are all within a few hours drive. The overwhelming winner -- out of council. This means we'll have camped out of council 5 times in the past 6 years. Although I view this as a loss for our council, we do sell popcorn (mostly) and the parents have been pretty generous to FOS. One could make the argument that statistically the odds were against our camp -- 1 out of 6 opportunities, or a 16% chance of staying in council. However it wasn't a random selection and the truth is the boys dislike our camp's facilities. The waterfront is bascially a large stagnant pond, the dining hall is cramped and hot, and the shower house gets pretty rank. The other truth is that they enjoy travelling to other places. They bypassed the camp we've attended (and enjoyed) for the past 2 years and selected one we've never been to. The kicker is, they chose a camp which uses patrol cooking instead of a dining hall -- and they were well aware of that fact. My personal vote is to do both. Attend in-council every other year, or have two camps: in-council for the younger Scouts and out of council for the older boys. I was actually hoping they would choose the council camp this year. It would be nice to be close-by for a change, and our OA lodge has the best call out ceremony I've seen so far. However, it's their choice and I'll support them 100%.

Okay, I misread the original question. I'll blame it on my haste to make it to church on time and this head cold I'm trying to get rid of. When I went re-read the initial post I realized that it didn't say the boy had never done his packing only that he apparently doesn't do it currently. If that's the case, then the BOR should (as has already been said) follow their procedures: verify all actions for the rank have been completed, obtain feedback on how the boy feels about his Scouting experience, and to encourage him to continue progressing. Now, of course if the board feels something was signed off improperly then it's a different matter, but not the one originally presented here (and misinterpreted by me). As to the discussion on a Scout's ability to demonstrate a skill (and retain it), well I think that's best left for a new thread.

Based on the original question, and subsequent information, I believe that the BOR members should be having a discussion with the Scoutmaster. If the board has good reason to believe the boy has not done the requirements then the Scoutmaster should be asked why he, or others, are improperly signing off on advancement. While the board is prohibited from retesting a candidate, they should not be put in the position of approving a Scoutmaster's "pencil-whipping". FOG, we have that same Mom in our troop -- plus a father or two and a grandfather as well. I've got some additional comments about the doing/demonstrating discussion that I'll have to post later -- right now it's time for church.

Dang it, I'm late to the party! Well Happy Birthday anyway and remember -- you're not a year older, you're just another year closer to owning that quilt shop. BTW, yes I saw the bad news in the other thread and sent a private message. I hope you enjoyed your birthday so much that you don't see either of these until Monday!

Great thread idea purcelce! Here's my input plus two additional questions: How many boys registered? 35 How many boys active? It varies, but currently I'd put it at about 28. We average about 20 per meeting. How many Patrols? 4. Now before anyone does the math, let me just say that two patrols just merged and one of those patrols will completely "age/Eagle-out" by next summer. For the rest of the answer see the question on Venture patrols below. For the record, I don't like the configurations of the patrols, but I'm the lone voice in the wilderness. Does your troop go to summer camp in or out of Council? Usually out. We were in-council two years ago, but that's still only once in the past five years. Does your troop go to Dist/Council Camporees? Yes, at least one of the two. Does your troop support FOS? Yes. Does your troop sell Popcorn? If not, what are your fundraisers? Short answer - Yes. Long answer - it's made available, but not pushed very hard. Does your troop use NSP, FCFY method? NSP - Yes; FCFY - No, but I'm working on turning that around. Does your troop have a Venture Patrol? Short answer - No; long answer - we should but we generally have to check them once per meeting to see if they still have a pulse. Does your troop have a feeder pack? Yes. How does your troop recruit non-Cub Scouts? There is no plan. Has your troop seen your Unit Commissioner in the past 6 months? Does bumping into him around town count? Seriously, he's a good guy but he's over-extended with other troop and pack duties. Is your Unit Commissioner helpful or a pain? Well at least he hasn't been a pain (see above). Does your troop leaders attend Roundtable? Yes, but from what I can see it's generally a "high-speed/low-altitude pass". And for the record, I'm usually at the OA meeting or helping with Eagle project reviews. How many members are on your troop committee? I'm not sure how many are actually registered. We definitely have the minimum, but there are usually 8 folks at the committee meetings plus the SM. BTW, Those numbers don't include the COR. Is your troop boy led? Yes, but only for the past 11 months. We've made good progress but have room to improve. Now for the additional questions and my answers: How many assistant Scoutmasters do you have? Short answer - 5; long answer - only two that can be relied on to show up prepared, or let you know ahead of time if they can't make it. Yes, I'm one of the two. Do you know who your COR is and when did you last see him/her? Well, I know his name and I've seen him a half-dozen times over the past year but not at any Scout activities --he hasn't functioned as a COR for several years.

If you need any further evidence that Lil was held to a higher standard look no further than Rupert, who according to the show's website works as a "Troubled Teen Mentor". His association with youth didn't stop him from stealing the other tribe's shoes on the very first episode -- and no one questioned how he could reconcile his conduct in the game with his job as a role model. Perhaps that was edited out since Rupert was so popular.

Thanks, you've been a great help!

Okay, I can't resist any longer -- which hat is she wearing: visored, campaign, or expedition?! Apologies to all the folks on the "Expedition Hat" thread, but I just had to ask. I'll go put myself in a time out now.

RM and FS: thanks for the BSA #. I'll contact the council office. BTW, does the packet contain info on the individual award or just the troop award? KA6BSA: Whoa! I hope it was the 10-day/night award!

Can anyone tell me if the National Camping Award is still active/available? It's discussed in the Scoutmaster Handbook, but I can't find any information about it on the BSA or Scoutstuff websites.

Another bullseye for KoreaScouter! I hope I didn't imply there was a correlation between the old Wood Badge and the aforementioned Scoutmaster's performance. I probably wouldn't even have brought it up except NeiLup's comment that "evaluations suggested that participation in old WB did not particularly correlate with running an outstanding Troop" caused me to think of it (and gave me a chuckle). I'd have to say that the most enduring lesson I've taken away from Wood Badge is the oft used quote on this forum "it's for the boys". I thought I had a good grasp of the boy-led concept before attending Wood Badge, but the course really drove the point home. I now know that it's my role to teach the boys how to be leaders and then to get out of their way (Yes, within reason). Like I said previously, it ain't always pretty, but I've learned to look past the aesthetics and to gauge things by the boys' degree of satisfaction. I can't compare the current Wood Badge course with any previous -- I've only been to the "new" one. However, I can't believe that any one was/is better than another. To my knowledge they've all had the same goal: to make us better Scout leaders. Thanks to combsc for generating a good discussion.

I completed the "practical" portion of Wood Badge in July '02 (ticket is due this month; tick-tick-tick) and I enjoyed it completely. Could I point to a specific aspect of the program that made it great? Yes, but it's the one that's been constant from the inception of the course -- comraderie. We had a good troop, but I have a great patrol. The 6 of us hit it off right away and had a blast. I still see most of them at Roundtable and we converse often via phone and email. Like others have mentioned, I've gotten the "rolling of the eyes" looks and the "well when I went through wood badge" comments, but I just chalked it up to the same thing that KoreaScouter did (I like to call it the "nobody works harder than me" syndrome). One particular individual in our unit usually makes comments about his course being really tough - inferring that I somehow skated through the experience (hmmmm, considering the fun that I've had, maybe I did). I don't give him any satisfaction though since his comments are completely invalid. As our former Scoutmaster (4 years) he never could grasp (or employ) the boy-led troop. It reminds me of dsteele's comment about what you get in return for sending "damaged goods" to training. Since the completion of my training -- along with the new Scoutmaster who is also a "woodbadger" -- the troop has done a 180 and is now boy-led. It ain't always pretty, but it is always for and by the boys. Incidentally, I'm told that in our council's last class for the "old" Wood Badge someone modified the axe and log display -- they removed the axe and replaced it with a chainsaw! I've got to appreciate that kind of humor not to mention the irreverance. Many Irons (and a good ol' Buffalo too!)

My wife also saw the photo and was quick to show it to me. I too was offended -- in hindsight. However; my first and most overwhelming emotion was that it CREEPED ME OUT! I agree with your assessment. Guilty or not, the guy's been convicted in the court of public opinion and photos like that will only reinforce it.