Makeitfun

Beavah - why did I know it would be you to reply? I won't post again on this topic but you clearly missed my point. In my classroom and in scouts, the overriding question should be... have they learned something, have they learned to think, and can they put their "knowledge" to good use. "Facts" can be looked up, so why keep re-testing on them, especially if you aren't requiring them to use the specific "facts" (versus "knowledge")? It's what you do with the "facts" that make or break a student or scout. In your reply, you talk about knowledge of fire safety and stove safety. I agree and that's my point. If they can apply the knowlege they have learned, but forget one specific "fact" that you as a leader are hung up on, does that mean they can't advance if they can't recite/demonstrate for you at a BOR? It seems to me by your tone that you wouldn't advance them. So, if a scout doesn't know how to tie a bowline knot from memory at a BOR you won't advance him? If on the monthly outings he needed to be tying bowlines until his fingers were bleeding, then I would agree he needs to know how to tie a bowline. But, if he doesn't ever use the knot (which is the case around here), then why would I re-test him at a BOR and not advance him? If a scout were asked at a BOR to tie one, but couldn't because he hasn't needed to then I think the adults were being over the top. If he told the BOR what a bowline was good for (as opposed to a different knot), but hadn't in x years of scouting ever needed to use it, then I'd be glad that he knew WHY a bowline was important. Again, make sure you understand that the scout has not needed to use the knot in x years of scouting. If you think that knowing these "specific" details is important, then I'll leave you to "kill and drill" your troop to your hearts content. My son and I don't live the frontier lifestyle that you must - and I'm thankful for that. If he and his friends learn how to apply their knowledge and know what to do with it, then they'll be ok. Again, just to be clear, the orignal threat was talking about re-testing at a BOR for "specific" information. If the "specific" information (versus working knowlege) isn't used, why would you possibly be re-testing him on it at a BOR?

I have been an "observer" on the forum for a few months and have never posted. I think now is the time. Most of the advice given here is very practical and ensures that scouts get as much out of the program as possible while adhering to the BSA guidelines. As has been pointed out though, BSA guidelines are very vague and sometimes contradictory. Many documents that we Americans hold to the highest standards (the US Constitution) are written the same way. Why do you think Alexander Hamilton and Thomas Jefferson debated and argued so much over it? Hamilton wanted a strong national government by focusing on the elastic clause (Article 1, Section 8, #18) while Jefferson was in favor of States rights by focusing on the 10th Amendment (powers reserved for the States). Some of the posts in this thread are unbelievable. I dont think I would want my son in a troop with a heavy-handed BOR approach that some are suggesting. Do you think that all the scouts retain all of the information that have been required to learn for each level of advancement and each merit badge earned? If you do, you are nuts. I am a history teacher. For a test I give specific topics and concepts that I expect them to know (much like merit badge requirements). If they pass, they pass. On the next test, I dont re-test them. For a midterm or final exam, I will re-test. BUT, they know what I will re-test them on. For a BOR to start re-testing scouts on any and all things will intimidate the boys and will take the fun out of scouting for some of the boys. Again, do you possibly expect them to remember everything? If they dont practice things, they will forget them and that space in their brain will be replaced with new information. Some of you scout leaders are way too hung up on knot tying. Around where I live, people doesn't ties many knots and if they need to, they can make do. Most scout equipment these days doesnt require you to tie knots either. So to not advance a scout who has met the requirements because you feel they dont know some fact (or knot) you think they should have remembered is plain wrong. Believe me, when they get ready to advance, they will have learned a lot. They may not remember it all (or more specifically what you think they should have remembered), but the process they went through to get there isnt easy. You could end up picking on a certain scout with arbitrary and capricious judgment. Keep in mind that this is supposed to be fun for the boys and they should want to approach adult leaders. If they think they will be re-tested on something when they see you, they will avoid you like the plague. Let the ranting from the hardliners begin.