Mafaking

There seems to be no personal accountability on the scouts or their families who brought this stuff. I think this is a big deal. There are no R movies in my house to bring. There are no mature video games in my house to bring. The scouts who brought them should be identified to the Troop Committee. The scouts who brought the prohibited material should be addressed. My guess is that the scouts who brought this material are the older scouts whose parents have ascended in the troop's hierarchy be it committee or program to have sway over what's really bad and just not ideal scout behavior. I would pack my bags to leave this troop as well. Not because the material was present, that's adolescent poor judgment. Not because the SM's didn't check every single game. It's the adult's reaction to the event that would irk me. Bring out the culprits whose judgment was lacking and let's address the issue. No response, no accountability; the troop leadership is then lacking in an area I hold dear to scouting. Integrity! I admire the scout who spoke up. That took courage.

I hold forth that Lisabob's comments on the bottom of page four are by all measures the reasonable person's approach to this issue. Well said Lisabob.

Kudo as far as your other points: 1) Decouple POR Credit from Patrol Leadership: Not likely to happen. I would strongly expect some parent would be in the COR's face or calling their local council office, submitting that the troop has strayed away from the program. 2) Be Active in Recruiting Leadership: This one I now believe I fell short on. I left too much to chance. I should have better inspired those who I thought would make good leaders and provide better description to the troop on what we needed in our leaders. The down side to this is that one has to be careful not to point out the short comings of the previous PL ability. I don't want to go before the scouts and state the failings of an 11 year old PL. I'll brush up on my straw man speeches. 3) Adventure: I know that the scouts are capable of planning their own trips (read my paintball comment). The trouble with the troop system is that the troop camps as a unit. A 13 year old may be able to organize his 5-6 buddies to go on an outing but not a troop 5 times that size. I'll have to assess how we plan trips to better provide the scouts with the opportunity to lead trips. No ownership no interests.

Kudo, I have the natural leader you described. He is a temperamental fella and has a somewhat anti-establishment attitude. The younger scouts gravitate to him like a mouth to a flame. He sits in the back grumbles a lot and makes fun of the adults. He used his sway to influence the elections away from his peers and adversaries toward the younger less capable scouts. He is now lord and master with no real POR. He controls the group but not through the formal organizational scheme. My current experience is that it is the 8th & 9th grader who make up the heart of the leadership group. Below eighth grade and they just aren't ready and above 9th and their interest is waning. (This message has been edited by Mafaking)

Fair question Venividi. We are not at a point where it is undesirable to be a PL or a SPL. Qualified candidates ran. I would have liked to have seen more qualified scouts run but some of the scouts who I thought were qualified didn't run. They told me latter that they wanted to gain more experience. I think to some degree it is the "fun" vote running the troop. Maybe it should be that way to some extent. The scouts I would like to see elected are the more mature scouts who take training well and follow the program (think program features and strong patrols). But that's my perspective. What's the best part of a young boys day? Recess! What is a kid's favorite element during soccer practice? The scrimmage. The scouts are voting their recess captain but I am looking for an assistant coach. The job qualifications for each are different.

Why will troop elections often elevate one of the least qualified scouts into a position of responsibility? The scouts when asked, crave order and structure during meetings. A SM conference question about how the troop could improve usually gets a reply that the scout wishes the troop wasn't so disorganized and chaotic during troop meetings. Then when given an opportunity the scouts votes the weaker of the scouts eligible into a position of responsibility. With this, the recess mentality continues.

To Scoutingagain, Paint balling is absolutely the most boy led event I have seen. My boy wants to go, its did you call to find the times and price. Don't know the phone number; look it up. Got your own money? I'll drive to get paint balls but your buying them. Who else is going? This is likely how scouting was intended. Its local, simple to plan and coveted by the scouts to play. It's military in structure, similar to the look and feel of early days of scouting. The adults do a drop off and the scouts play a game. The events have ref's and the good boys and girls pretty much follow the rules and play fair.

This is such a good topic. What happens at NYLT how is the scout affected and what does it mean to the troop. I believe that it is only nominally effective to send one scout to NYLT. He will come back with a language unknown to most others in the troop. A lone NYLT trained scout will have a tempered influence on the troop. There will be too much entrenched culture to over come by himself. That's why we have sent multiple scouts to NYLT the last few years. The more the better. A culture of "this is how the program is meant to work" will only be established if a proportion of the scouts have been through NYLT.

On the issue of you lose scouts but Woodbadge adults hang around. I am not sure I agree but so what. Nor would I solely look at it as an return on investment to the troop. We are in a training for life movement. NYLT with stay with the Scout for life. A scout leaving scouting having completed NYLT is leaving with training he can use the rest of his life. For me its part of the program. Show 2-3 years of commitment, spirit, progress toward rank and that will get you a recommendation to attend NYLT. None of these are perfect experiences: troop meetings, weekend campouts, volunteer work, summer camp, high adventure outings, NYLT and an Eagle project. But you give a scout an opportunity to do all these things, warts and all and a better man he will be from it. Sorry I had to stop writing for a moment to take another sip of the BSA cool aide. Besides a scout implementing what he learned at NYLT is much better than an adult trying to infuse the troop with what he learned at Woodbadge.

In the up coming Pixar movie "UP" the young boy is clearly a pseudo cub scout. I am sure he will have his moments of cleverness and mistakes and exaggerated portrayals. Not unlike any Saturday night skit at a campfire program. Also George Lopez is a scout leader in something like "Mr Troop Mom". I am sure its a mix camp adventure yarn that one could easily predict the plot. The big heated dad is roped into doing things he is completely unfamiliar with to help his child grow all while serving youths. No doubt similar to anyone's first year as a youth leader. My movie moment, is a late 1970's James Bond movie that takes place in Vegas. The Mach 1 Mustang runs down an alley and uses a loading ramp to pivot the car up on the two right wheels. When the car emerges from the narrow alley, escaping the bad guys, the car is up on its two left wheels.

Our council puts on two woodbadge courses a year. Although one has a schedule suitable for LDS scouters both are open to all scout leaders. None the less that is 8 critters with six patrol members or 48 adults per class and 96 for the year. Our council has one 36 scout NYLT course offered at the end of the summer camp program. My opinion, the emphasis is backwards. I would rather have two NYLT youth graduates in my Troop for every one adult woodbadger.

For those that went to Woodd badge, if you remember you created your own personal ticket from items based on a specific category, for example diversity was one, others may have include personal goals, spiritual achievement, unit and district goals. In our Council, at the end of the NYLT the scout is given a ready made ticket with the areas already determined. For example unit help might be, help a struggling patrol achieve success. Or a spiritual item, lead a scout's own service. Here are our Buckskin ticket items 5 & 6: 5. I will use the skills learned in Finding Your Vision, Setting Your Goals, Preparing Your Plans, the Leading EDGE and the Start, Stop & Continue evaluation tool by planning and carrying out one of the following: A. Service project B. Troop outing C. Court of Honor I planned and carried out a: _______________________________________________ Date completed__________________ Scoutmaster signature: __________________________________________________________________________________ 6. I will use the skills taught in Developing Your Team, Solving Problems, Resolving Conflict, Valuing People by doing the following: I will help bring one patrol / or patrol members from the Forming or Storming stage to the Norming or Performing stage. Activity dates: ______________________ Scoutmaster Conference date: _________________________________________ Scoutmaster signature: __________________________________________________________________________________

Out of character yell at an annoying scout doing annoying things. Don't sweat it. You'll get a pass on this one. Have a brief talk with the parents and get back to doing what you do well.

Beavah, I agree with your first post. Ya like to think that the reason you are doing what you are doing, be it as a MB counselor, as an ASM or sitting on a BOR is that you bring experience and wisdom to the BSA's written program. Baden Powel was basically making this stuff as went based on his own experience and background. One might reply, "you sir are no Baden Powel". OK so I am not even 10% the youth leader he was. On the other hand, that should entitle me to 10% personal guidance to the scouts whom I serve. Not whole sale modification to the program but a little wiggle room based on whatever I know about the outcome the scout is trying to achieve.

We follow the same practice as gwd. Just because the scout comes home with a print out of all the things he has done at the T-2-1 program doesn't mean he gets automatically passed on all those. The SM's sit down and tests the scouts on the requirements before signing off. We discuss how to hike down a road, how to prepare for a campout, have the scout show us the knots. If the scout is deficient in some skills we advise him to go back to his PL, book or other and re-familiarize himself with these skills. Its difficult to expect a scout to be proficient at everything in a program designed for a year or more but crammed into a week long high intensity program. However, we have all our first year scouts go through the T-2-1 program so that the scout is exposed to these skills, and its a orientation course for the new scout. Flag protocols must be observed, scout salutes, scout signs, these are all expectations that the scout will need to know beyond the technical skills listed in the scout handbook. As we like to believe, scouting is greater than the sum total of the skills listed in the handbook. Lisabob is spot on. There is a high likelihood of a melt down with a scout put into MB classes with older scouts doing skills beyond his ability. At least in the T-2-1 program he would be around scouts who are truly his peers. The other SM program may work for him because all the troop's new scouts are in the same MB classes. He essentially creates his own first year program. He likely assigns an ASM to follow the New Scouts around to the various MB classes. This practice is often requested by the camp director that at least one adult tag along with their T-2-1 scouts. Gwd, I doubt that you planned to bird dog this scout through his MB classes. Gwd, if you feel strong enough about this you could push that a guest scout in your troop follow your troop's program.

Alright gwd-scouter, share with us the MB's he is making this Tenderfoot take.

A Tenderfoot taking MB's over a pathfinder program? That's just wrong! The Path finder/mountain-man and such will reinforce the skills needed for the next 7 years. His scoutcraft skill development should be the primary focus of his first year experience. I have yet to see a scout too good at these primary skills. Plus the age association and scouting community bonding experience that goes with being with all the other first years. However, there is some leeway. A first year wanting to take the rifle or archery MB's as part of an afternoon program. Fine! Otherwise wait on the MB's until the second year of summer camp to load up on MB's. That SM sees summer camp much differently than I do.

When compared against the ideal man as the scout law would suppose all in scouting are striving for, the ideal man does not stay up all hours of the night yammering away at the campfire. You want adult bonding join the Elks. Otherwise early to bed early to rise these a virtuous habits which should be encouraged at an early age.

I am sure every year hygiene is a concern in the kitchen's of a Boy Scout summer camp. But this year especially the knifes, forks, spoons and plates will need to be sterilized completely. The dispensers for this cutlery will need to provide good measures to protect against germ filled hands from contaminating otherwise clean utensils. There is the hygiene problem and the issue of what happens when a scout does get sick? Does the camp want to make a statement on this issue? Any summer camp directors out there want to share what might be coming out from your council on this matter?

Gees, if they hype this "pandemic" anymore summer camp directors will need to start having operational plans, refund policies and quarantine policies. Many summer camp programs not just BSA's could be destroyed if the hype continues or worse if the hype is real. I just don't buy all the hype. Scary that if it is over hyped it could ruin summer plans. Scary too if there is a significant threat. How much hype is too much?

I think back at the training I have had, SM specific, Outdoor Leadership, Baloo countless roundtables and the Woodbadge course sticks out as the only one that emphasizes the patrol Method. Just by virtue of the role playing scenario they could have been teaching us Cricket and we would have learned a good chunk of the patrol leadership system. For a reasonable outdoorsy adult, scoutcraft skills are not that hard. Fire building, compass work, first aide, topo map reading, cooking in the field, hitches and knots if an adult has been camping for a while they have picked up on these skills or self educated themselves. I think lisabob is on target, its breaking these skills both the scoutcraft and the leadership skills into small chunks for pre-teens and young teens to understand.

I think parental support is under reported requirement for a scout's successful POR. Doesn't camp: PL: Its hard to lead the patrol, QM: Its hard to over see equipment or see to it that the trailer is loaded and unloaded properly Historian: Hard to take photos of events, write stories and grab items for a scrap book or news letter. Troop Guide: New Scout patrol won't lead themselves. Just showing up at events and a good SM will advise and suggest ways to improve at what A POR should be doing doing. Kindeness subtleties is the preferred method for these recomendatiosn. But if mom does not let you camp its hard for the SM to do his mentoring and its hard to learn the skills of leadership when they aren't getting opportunities to use them.

What about a Patrol Leader who doesn't camp? Not one overnighter with his patrol over the entire six months.

This experiment has failed. The adults couldn't provide the program as stated and thus no further investment of your boys time should be applied to this VP. No amount of discussion will penetrated the heads of these adults. I would advise your son to withdraw from participating in this VP any further. The leaders of this VP will instantly recognize they have failed and attempt to make modest amends. Ignore these as without a complete change in the adult head of this patrol there will be no improvement. Suspend all activity and be patient. State no time of when you will return only in the future you may consider rejoining a restructured VP. The VP leaders need time (1 year likely)to break the perpetual invitation of the adults to accompany them on outings. New VP by-laws may be needed to address the amount of adults that can go. (This message has been edited by Mafaking)

Interesting. The citizenship MB are the worst. History assignments each. But I am not sure there is anything I can do with information. I am obliged to follow the policies of my charter which require me to implement the BSA program as written. Funny I think the venturing program with its de-emphasis on ranks and wards is more in line with traditional scouting goals. Go out have fun and learn from each other. I'll say that a Ranger award in our council is rare. Maybe a few a year. And Cub Scouting with its separate den meetings is more of patrol system and better suited for individual group planning meeting for their own outings is closer to the patrol method. An old PL handbook I have has routine patrol meetings at 90 minutes. Do you have patrols meeting 90 x 3 a month? The middle ground is where the BSA school is. Finally I see the name scoutmaster more closely aligned with Headmaster. The headmaster is the school's primary decision maker. Even though there is a committee with a chair above him. The headmaster is the chief officer of the school.