madkins007

My first step would be a frank discussion with the parents using carefully selected leaders (ones who show the sort of people skills this would need). Learn about the boy and his needs, especially his meds. What you do next would depend on what you learn- should the information be shared, and of so, with whom? The SM and CC almost certainly, but beyond that may take some careful thought. His patrol members, for example, might really benefit from knowing more OR they might be better off treating him more like one of the guys. Requesting/requiring the parents or other 'appointed guardian' to attend events might not be a bad idea, but many of the parents are sort of hoping for a break themselves, and I'd be inclined to accomodate them if at all reasonable. If the parent's do not oblige, or are ignoring a real problem, I'd let the unit's normal discipline process occur. If the Scout is out of the leadership's ability to control, he should be taken home, suspended, etc. as per normal unit practices.

My own solution would be... 1.) Position patches would be restricted items, only awarded upon completion of some level of training (I would argue for Basic, although some might argue for Fast Start) 2.) Scout leadership to be structured like many other professionals- must achieve a certain number of credit hours a year to keep accredited. Non-accredited leaders cannot be rechartered. Roundtable counts for hours, as do many other options, including American Red Cross CPR/First Aid, etc. 3.) Modify rechartering and commisioner staff so that it takes a certain number of visits and 'check-offs' to certify/recharter a unit. Check-offs could include things like strong summer programs, evidence of annual planning, etc. 4.) Streamline the program overall and dump those things that cause problems or division but really don't advance the program. I would include required uniform pants in a heartbeat. Other things I'd drop are 'uniform litter' (the tendency to issue patches for the shirt for every little thing), merit badge classes at unit meetings and many summer camp merit badges, and 'loose' requirements for advancement (like 'show spirit').

Tents: Troop owned several, but getting them back in good shape was a MAJOR hassle, so we began to request that people provide their own. They were welcome to borrow ours but basically 'rented' them in the sense that we had them sign'em out and in. I have to say that overall, I preferred it when the Scouts provided their own- they took better care of them. Patrol boxes: These things can become a major hassle- they are huge, heavy (one of ours could not be easily carried by 4 Scouts!), often filthy inside (and hard to sanitize), etc. At a camporee, I watched a group using plastic tubs and folding racks (like cheap TV trays). When I talked to them, I found that the tubs were stored at a member's house, were cleaned after each outing, were restocked at patrol meetings just before the camp, and carried in a parent's trunk. I fell in love with the idea! I also discovered that a lot of the stuff in the tubs was scavenged from member's homes or thrift shops and included a large supply of plates, etc. Each patrol had a couple of tubs- usually one for cood gear and the other for dining gear and other patrol supplies (notebook, flag, etc.) I think that some of the 'traditional' ideas of troop/patrol gear can indeed be rethought to encourage better patrol spirit AND personal responsibility... as long as there are options for new or other Scouts- troop-owned loaner gear, a rummaging bin of stuff peoiple can have or buy cheap, etc. I would DISAGREE that individual cooking should be the rule- although there is certainly a time and a place for it, just as I think there is a time and a place for adults cooking for all (such as a 'party'-type campout hosted by parents).

Hey, guys- take a deep breath. A Scout is trustworthy, and he is also loyal and helpful. The people doing this are taking money wrongfully and it needs to be fixed on a national level- as publically as possible- but they are not defrauding widows or destroying pension plans or pumping toxic waste into aquifers or molesting children or doing any of what other companies/organizations are doing around us every day and getting away with. For that matter, the United Way is probably the biggest party directly hurt in this, and they really probably should be asking for some better verification from their charities. I'd bet a pretty penny that the BSA is absolutely no worse than some other groups are about inflating claims and needs. I think we need to be carful to not brand the BSA business branch as either a devil OR a saint- either extreme seems unhelpful.

As for inflation of numbers, my own experience is limited to two councils. One did it, one did not, both statements subject to my own limited access and both based on about 4 years ago. As I said, I'd be willing to bet that it is more likely in a certain group of councils, based on size, location, and the management. I bet there is far less pressure in smaller councils, for example. We Scouters also need to keep this in perspective. Fight it in your own unit as far as you can, IF it is happening, and realize that it is really up to US to deliver a quality program. The paid folks will screw up once in a while (we do to, but we already knew that!) Sometimes big, usually small. Usually in an effort to do right in some way. That does not change who WE are or what the BSA stands for. Some of the most respected churches in America have had scandals. Well-run and trusted companies have scandals. There is no reason to assume that we somehow magically staffed the entire organization with people who cannot succumb to the pressures and temptations. Instead of ignoring the possibility, be thankful it is not happening in your area, and support, if possible, the idea that the BSA should have some checks and balances. If it is squeaky clean, any audiots, etc. would prove it and let us shine. If we are a bit soiled, we can clean it off and get back on track.

Some scheduling 'looses' are due to our rather slack approach to attendence- most sports require a high percentage of attendence or you don't play or suffer some other penalty. We don't do that (nor do I think we should). Some is due to novelty. While Scouting is exciting, the 'day to day' stuff can be quite predictable. You can often look at the unit's schedule and figure you can miss certain meetings without great harm to your unit standing, thus a movie or time with friends might easily win out. Some of it is the family support. If the parent's can't drop our Scouts off, many of them have no way to get here. That may be one of the single biggest changes since the 70's. When I was in Scouts as a youth, we could walk to meetings. Now- I have only met a few Scouts who live in walking distance of the meeting place. For parents, work, babysitting needs, household management, having a life of their own, and other things can conflict. Sometimes I think our drive to be a low-cost, high-energy, low 'demand' program hurts us in todays society. Maybe if we charged more, people would put more value on it. (I don't want to see that, just thinking out loud!)

Get the money up front. If they don't pay, they don't play. If they back out later, more food for the other guys! That was the ONLY way we got a couple of families to start to commit at all, otherwise it was the same thing- last minute changes of mind, etc. It got to the point we asked those families to help in other ways and usually assumed they would not carry out any designated task, so made back-up plans. Most of them did not last long in Scouts, sadly enough, but

Lee Child's books with the character 'Jack Reacher'. A loner ex-Military Police who gets involved in some interesting cases. (www.leechild.com) Stephen Hunter's books with 'Bobby Lee Swagger', ex-Marine sniper trying to live his own life, but... (www.stephenhunter.net) F. Paul Wilson's 'Repairman Jack' books (www.repairmanjack.com) Greg Rucka's 'Atticus Kodiak' books (www.gregrucka.com) Janet Evanovich's 'Stephanie Plum' books are often hilarious Brian M. Wiprud- the guy's stuff is hilarious- Pipsqueak and Stuffed are some of the oddest/funniest stuff I've seen in a while. Pretty near anything by Tim Cahill- adventure/travel from... well, almost a nerd's point of view. Funny! I enjoy science/nature as well- 'Hot Zone' was great, and 'Parasite Rex' by Carl Zimmer is fun and informative... if you don't mind tapeworms, malaria, etc.! Dale Brown (I'd start with 'Flight of the Old Dog'), Robert Ludlum... (wait, I gotta go look at my library again... No, don't go, it'll only take a minu

Your local largish church supply store will have a section or department on youth group ideas, supplies, and books. While some of them will be very religious in tone, the bulk of the ideas can be used with any group. If the venue allows, try to create different activity zones, with a mixture so you don't have to please everybody. Sports over here, RC car races here, a movie being shown over here, a snack bar and band in the other corner... On a vaguely related note, I have often wondered what would happen if the BSA decided to try to run summer activity programs for non-Scouts. We have a ton of resources and such. I think we could do a really wonderful thing in that area, especially for the age groups most at risk.

Amen, FScouter! Preach it brother! Using the raingear as an example- I feel it is within my role as a leader to teach the wisdom of preparation and what to bring, but (other than for new Scouts as a teaching technique or other special situations) NOT to do pack inspections. On the other hand, we DO carry spare and emergency gear- a sleeping bag, a change of clothes, a roll of big trash bags, a couple towels, some easily stored food and high-energy snacks, spare water, etc. My thinking is that if it starts to rain and a Scout is caught unprepared, it is leadership's job to ensure that the potential consequence is not out of proportion with the behavior. That is, we'll let the Scout get wet, but not hypothermic (or anywhere near that point) or ruin his sleeping bag. (This message has been edited by madkins007)

I'd be willing to bet that the website does not exagerate an iota, and that the problem is nearly nation-wide, at least among a certain size of councils (larger may be able to generate REAL numbers, and smaller might not have the pressures). When I worked in a local council office, I sure as heck knew about the exagerations, and I knew that those who fought against it were either TOLD to do it or were sidelined or removed. Only one DE I knew of was successful in fighting the pressure- by working his tail off and producing real numbers and money. Within the office it was a common topic of conversation- on the hush obviously! Of course, the ONLY reason I knew about it was because the position I had (a VERY low-level job), we needed membership roles and unit contact info. I saw units on it I knew from another part of my job to be extinct or never existed. Sure, I knew about the 8 'ghost Scouts' in our unit as well- but the DE then (NOT the one who fought and won) just told me that it was a glitch that would clear up... and it only took 5 years to get rid of them (and then only after the new DE started). I had believed the old DE until I started the council job. I do not know what the current status of that council is. I certainly hope they got their act together, but since the key info is kept pretty hush-hush, no one really seems to know anymore, and my last insider contact retired a year ago (when things were looking interesting there.) Now- this is the BUSINESS side of Scouting, and is run by people to whom Scouting is both a youth program and a rather big business. I think this reflects more a simple and common desire to look good and ensure the status quo than an attempt to defraud America. I doubt it will tear Scouting down, nor would I ever agitate for that. We just need to get the 'A Scout is Trustworthy' message back on track in the business offices.

I'm sorry, FScouter- I meant my reply to be completely tongue-in-cheek, and entirely missed in setting the right tone!

Yeah... within a few days of each event, I saw both examples locally. During a patriotic/historic event a local cemetary, covered in the news, I watched what appeared to be a crack team of Scouts in nearly perfect uniforms carry out a well-rehearsed color ceremony. Speaking to a ASM after, I discovered that the event is an annual one for the troop and that practice is built in to their program. Participation is purely voluntary and based on performance and presentation during practices- flag handling, simople drill, and uniforming. It is such an honor that on the day of the event, there are Scouts in the wings hoping that one o fthe other Scouts will show in sub-par uniform and they will be tapped to serve. Unfortunately, I did not have the opportunity to talk to them about how they made it such a desireable position! (Although they DID have a unique woggle for the color guard team). A little later, at a district dinner, I watched as a pretty dang sloppy group of Scouts shuffled up to limp through a ceremony- a couple were in jeans, one's shirt was untucked, etc. I hesitate to admit that I believe they were OA. To add a bit of insult, the newest Eagles were introduced and they looked even worse- between the unforms and body posture, I thought they looked more like a police line-up than our top line Scouts.

Picture storage- You can now buy some devices that will store the pictures for you. iPods, for example can do that, as can laptops, etc. More pictures on the card- just choose the right quality setting for your real needs (most of the time you really don't need the top end quality!) and do a 'daily data dump' of the bad shots. Charger- Some digital cameras (especially the super light or thin ones) ONLY charge when in their charging stand- the charging port on the side just runs it for shooting or transferring photos, but not recharging the battery. Check yours before you go to know if you need the charger base or not. Solar Charger- Solar chargers work great for smaller batteries and can take nearly forever for bigger batteries. If your camera uses 'regualr rechargeable batteries', this option should work well for you- you can pop a set in the charger, let'em charge for a day (or however long they'll take), swap and charge the next set.

re: Campmaster authority... BSA Rules and Regulations, Article X, Section 4, Clause 11 "Special Local Badges and Insignia" says that a council may indeed authorize special badges in accordance with the other rules AND the authorization of the BSA. Insofar as the pocket flap patches I have seen are primarily designed for Cubs (Whittlin' and Fireman), and would thus not conflict with any other flap insignia, I would certainly assume that any Campmaster that says it is OK has the word from on high, at least for the purposes of the camp. I agree that the need for a Tot'n'Chip patch is far weaker, but I ain't going to assume that no one anywhere might not do it anyway!

Banning electronics? I give them (and the parents) the old 'don't bring it if it will bother you to have it lost or broken' speech, and remind them that ANYTHING that bothers the others or is being used at the wrong time or in the wrong way will be removed and returned on the way home. (The old 'we camp to get away from it all' bit is only partly true- YOU ande I may camp to get away from it all, but we don't all share the same values. 'Camping without electronics' is not a part of the program or methods of Scouting. Heck, I'd rather have a patrol that is 'plugged in' during down time than a lone Scout that shares my belief in that topic.) Snacks? If they are using a troop tent- it is 'no food or drink in tents, even in your bag', otherwise it is 'A Scout is Courteous' and ought to share. There is also that rule about stuff that bothers others or is being used in the wrong way or time. Banned? Nothing that will get us kicked out of the park or camp (fireworks, booze, drugs, cigs, weapons, loose wimmin, etc.) or that violates the 12 Points (porn, 'bad' messages on shirts or hats, etc.) Discouraged? We talk about not bringing stupid things along- things you don't need (heavy flashlights, heavy/messy/unhealthy pop, firestarting tools other than a small survival kit, etc.) We also discourage by generally requiring at least a little hike in, even when mostly car camping- park in the shade a bit aways from the camp, for example ("Get your stuff in one trip so we can lock up the car/trailer"). Camo? We got a lot of it a few years back when it was the fashion, and there is a troop the kids see that seems ot have made it a uniform choice, which causes them to ask me why we can't do that. Other than that, I forbid it as uniform wear, allow it for other uses. Now- on SOME campouts, of course, our lists are quite different. A survival outing might only allow them to bring in a sleeping roll and 2 lbs of supplies while a campout that is mostly geared for 'cheap hotel space' while we do something else in the area might have even fewer rules than normal.

I heard an interesting proposal during a conversation on this topic the other day... Step 1- simplify and standardize the uniform- reduce variations, streamline insignia, eliminate things that get sewn on and removed often, etc. This would include using the tan unifrom for Cubs, eliminating the yellow female option, requiring neckerchiefs as only neck option, etc. Besides being a true 'uniform' by the 'we all look alike' definition of the term, it also should reduce the costs of the uniforms in general. Step 2- Make the resulting uniform the National Uniform, required for any activity happening internationally or above the Council level- Jamborees, Adventure Bases, etc. Step 3- Establish a dress code for units that can be fulfilled with the National Uniform, or assembled from local equivilents. In this level, retain the Cub navy uniform options, etc., but let units assemble them from local vendors based on guidelines. Keep a few standard elements ("Scout shirts must display these emblems, be these colors, etc. to qualify") for the identification purposes. Let's face it- most people nowadays have no clue what the actual BSA uniform looks like, beyond a rather cartoonish tan or navy with a neckerchief and patches. This proposal keeps a national image, but allows more local authority (which, I admit, is not necessarily a good thing!)

Yeah, but Velcro gets so nasty so easily. Yuck! (Of course, I work with the stuff every day and have picked up a real personal dislike for the stuff in a lot of applications! Far perfer snaps, buckles, ties, etc.)

KISMIF (Keep It Simple, Make It Fun) Bucket washing machine with plunger is one way to make it more fun for the Scouts- especially the younger guys who haven't yet 'seen it all'. If you have a bucket with a really tight fitting lid (I like the screw-on retro lids you can get some places), play a game of 'kick the can' (well, roll the can- it hurts to kick it!) or field bowling. A couple small fist-sized rocks tucked in an old sock helps the agitation. Teach'em the Zip-Lock Washing Machine (gallon-sized heavy duty zip bag, shirt (or a change of undies and socks, whatever), some water, a dash of cold-water soap, inflate, and shake, shimmy, and dance! Put some good music on and turn'em loose. It takes a bit of practice to find the right level of water- the bag gets heavy and easy to splash quickly! Find an old-fashioned washboard and tub (if you don't have to haul it too far) and turn'em loose- the sheer novelty will work for you at least one time. You sometimes see ads for a small clothes washer- it looks like a mini cement mixer. Claims great results with little water and no electricity. If it works it would be perfect! Demonstrate humility. Without any fanfare or explaination, go (or arrange for another leader to go) tent to tent one evening and ask for all Scout uniforms, nothing in pockets please. Gather them all, dump them in a big barrel/tub/bag of sudsy water and commence washing. Rinse them, hang them, and don't say a word about it. Show your appreciation for every Scout who says 'thanks', and let Scouts help who seem genuinely interested- but do not ask for any help. Use it as the topic of a SM minute- sort of like Jesus washing the feet of the disciples. Quiet, humble, simple, helpfulness.

re: Cubs and Webs- Insignia Guide, p4, 'Temproary Insignia'- "The Progress Towards Ranks or Webelos compass points emblem may be worn by a CS or WS suspended from the right pocket button IN ADDITION TO A SEWN-ON TEMPOARY PATCH" (Emphasis mine) What you CANNOT do, in any level, is have a sewn-on patch AND a buttoned on temp patch at the same time. re: Tot'n Chip (or Whittlin' Chip or Fireman) patch- this is often a 'flap-shaped' patch that I have heard of SOME camps 'authorizing' for wear on the Cub or Webelos pocket flap- many Scouts seem to wear two- one on each flap. I have heard the justification was so leaders would easily know who was authorized to do certain things at camp. While I would not contradict a camp master, this would normally be a normal temp patch.

Yeah, what he said. Also- Isn't the school putting up any of the money? And if they are not, what are their plans for maintaining the poles and flags? Traditionally, when trying to raise biggish bucks, you ask a few questions: 1. Who benefits? School and neighborhood in this case, so try class competitions for funding- the class that raises the most gets a pizza or ice cream (or whatever else you can get donated). 'Penny drive/penny wars' (I don't understand penny war rules, but they seem to be effective), etc. 2. Who loves the subject? Benevolent and patriotic groups- so ask them for grants and so forth. Oddly enough, a local bar might be a great source of support (ask the dads.) 3. Who has the deep pockets? Do a search for available grants- there are a LOT of them, and the smaller ones don't take a lot of paperwork. Who has stuff they can donate- like home centers or paving contractors. People who install the poles, if approached properly, may be able to help offer ideas on this. Is there a school alumni that can be asked? A corporate partner that can share some loot? 4. What surprise, hidden sources of income might there be? 4th of July is coming up fast- can you sell small yard flags for a decent profit? Can you offer classes on some related subject and charge for them? Can you put on a show and pass a hat? (Hey- arrange for formal flag ceremonies several days in a row at a good nearby flagpole- Marines in full dress, police or firemen color guards, VFW, etc. Give a BRIEF speech and pass around a hat. Share fairly with the performers.)

Also in the early 70's, the Camping and Cooking MBs were dropped as required, many ranks were simplified compared to the older, more challenging versions, and the uniform was changed from the solid khaki cotton to the tan over olive polyester. Those of us who lived through it remember the difficulties of working under two sets of rules- a hodge-podge of cut-off dates to earn rank by or you had to re-earn it the new way. New uniforms being phased in with strong encouragement to abandon the old uniforms even before they wore out or were outgrown. Skill awards, the dread red berets (with NO guidance on how to wear a beret correctly!), the ugliest rank awards ever (many units nationally hated the new Eagle so much they commissioned their own versions fo the old design!) The ugliest (and shortest lived) Handbook covers ever (the two-tone light green over darker green). Lots of big changes that made little sense to most of the youth and leadership- many of us felt abandoned by National and I personally knew MANY Scouts who were working on Eagle but missed a cut-off and would have had to re-earn it under the new rules- including earning a bunch of Skill Awards and a different mix of MBs. Each quit within a short time, heartbroken over the BSA's choices. It was a really good example of what happens when you try to update a program with a poor plan. In many ways, I think we are still recovering because the disillusioned youth from the 70's are the parents today.

1. Age vs. year- As a rule of thumb, go by year of school. The age bit is only really helpful for home-schooled youth and, oddly enough, the Mormon church, who do things slightly differently. I wish I could cite my source for this, but I can't find it any more (I donated a TON of books to the unit when I shifted jobs again!) The key here is 'FINISHED' such and such a grade. Finish a grade and have to repeat it and you still FINISHED it. School years are pretty universal- most schools start and end within a few weeks of each other. 2. Relative importance- The only two times the age or grade REALLY mean anything are for starting Scouts and for earning the AOL badge/bridging over. In between these two times, I can promise you that many councils will not worry about it. Ask your council's Scouter Services desk or DE about it for local policy. (You may or may not be surprised to find that there are very few records kept on Cubs for past years. Start date, current registration info, AOL, and a few others, but not much else. Most of what IS kept is kept to make Eagle easier to verify.) Even in councils where the records are tighter, exceptions can and will be made for many, many reasons. 3. Socializing- This is a two-sided sword. If the Scout hangs back with his 'new' group, his old group is still around and sees him in this new, lower position- that has a certain effect on both groups involved. On the other hand, staying with his old group shows his new classmates that he really is a bit older and doing well outside of class.

Heh- when I teach youth about nature, I teach them two new cuss words- 'stumpsuckers' (the small branches at the base of a tree- if anything happens to the tree, they grow in its place) and 'crepuscular' [kray- PUSS-cue-lar)(like nocturnal and diurnal, but means active in dawn and dusk). Calling someone a 'crepuscular stumpsucker' sounds pretty darn nasty, don't it? But the kids MEMORIZE those terms! So, I'd go with Camp Crepuscular cuz I like the sound of it... but it does look a little odd! I also like the sound of 'Bat Camp', but I can see it spooking out a lot of folks!

Sash- should only be worn at OA events and never looped over the belt. Membership- usually, a quick note to the local lodge and re=applying for membership will do it!