lrsap

Please forgive the length of this post. For a while now, I have been a big fan and sometime small contributor to these forums. I enjoy them for great information most of the time, and sometimes for pure entertainment. But I have no doubt that, with the exception of a very few online instigators, everyone contributing is a dedicated scout or scouter, whose main motivation is our youth and providing a good program to help them become better adults. I say this because as a dad and DL of a W2 who will be crossing over in February, the subject of Boy Scout advancement has me very concerned about the next few years of my son's life. He loves Scouting, and I know he will be fine in whatever troop he joins. But when trying to come to a decision about which troop is best for my son, I feel the questions of "How much and where do you camp?"....."What kind of equipment does my son need as a member of your troop?"..."Are you active in OA?" are what we should be asking. But asking a SM their interpretation of what advancement requirements are shouldn't have to be a concern to the parent of a new scout. I'm not saying a parent shouldn't have an idea of what a scout needs to do in order to advance. I'm just saying that a parent shouldn't visit three different troops and get three different answers as to questions such as: "What is the function of a Board of Review?" "What does 'Active' mean?" "What is an acceptable Eagle Project?" "What is Scout Spirit?" "Why is this good enough for advancement here, but not good enough for the troop down the street? Aren't you all part of BSA?" As I said earlier, almost everyone I have read on these pages has nothing but the best in heart. But also, I have seen different answers to these types of questions from everyone. If some of the best and most dedicated in Scouting can't be in agreement as to the basic requirements and functions of Boy Scout advancement, you have to understand why there is a certain uneasiness in my heart about this next big step of my son's life. At this point, I'm not even sure what I'm asking. It's either one of two things: Can you give me advice on the best way to determine (or the right questions to ask a SM about) a troops advancement policies? or what may not seem reality-based: Should I even have to ask? Shouldn't there be a book of answers to these questions that takes out the need for individual interpretation? Sean

kenk, not good enough??? Heck, give me a troop full. Congrats to your son. I'll take good skills in a good kid over super skills with a bad attitude any day. Funny thing about minimums. Let's raise the standards for Eagle so boys don't just "do the minimum". Those new standards are now the new minimum. Are they not good enough now?

"I had praised this Scout for something else but not this because he abandoned the task before completing it. Interestingly, the Scout piped up at the meeting that he had left to play ball and thus couldn't take credit. " I know it's a bit off the topic, but it was my favorite part of this entire thread. Even if the ASM is a problem, from this you get the idea that the boys are all right.

If cost is an issue, it is normally because the price of the letters really adds up. When we needed a new Pack Flag, one of my parents came up with a great idea. She said, "Why don't we ask everyone to buy a letter?" It really worked out well. I created a sample flag on poster board with letters that could be removed. When someone wanted to buy a letter, we took it off the poster and gave it to them. When they were all gone, presto! One paid for flag (minus the cost of the actual flag, of course). Looking back, the only thing I would change is to somehow have the scouts earn the money to but THEIR letter. I just remember it was such a great idea at the time, we jumped in.

I agree that when I go to the Council shop and see the huge section of unnecessary patches (do I really need the Cub Scout Promise on a patch?? And a Car Wash Patch????), it seems a bit silly. But I have to admit a fondness for one of them, but I hope you understand. In Central Florida, for a Cub Scout to get the "Camping in Freezing Weather" patch really is quite an accomplishment. A Cub Scout has to: 1.Stay the night in weather he's REEEEEEEALLLLLY not used to 2.Maintain a positive attitude that makes him want to stay at all and most importantly 3. Keep Mom away from the weather forecast for a week!!

Eagle 92, That's interesting. I have never seen that version of the card before. The one I have gotten from the council shop does not mention the Bear achievement at all. Is this an older or newer one? I haven't actually bought one in a couple of years.

Can anyone show me the rule that states a Cub Scout HAS to be a Bear before he can earn his Whitlin' Chip?

Couldn't help but notice this in Cheerful Eagle's last reply: "She said that the head of the popcorn drive was working all the shifts that no one else worked...." Sounds typical. Makes you wonder if Ms. Yelling Lady was so concerned about the poor popcorn chair, she should have volunteered a turn or two, just to "do her part". CE, if you were here in FL, I would love to have your family with our (not my, OUR) pack. Give us 20 to each do 1 job well, and we're golden!

I would have to say I'm with ScoutNut on this one. The one caveat I would have to taking the pins, badge and a good conversation at face value is this: What sort of scouting or scouter experience does the dad have? This is one of the few instances where "not much, if any" would be a good answer. I would have a hard time believing a non-scouting parent would say, "Ok, now that we've moved, let's say we lost the old book and go to the scout shop. Then, we'll get a Webelos badge and a bunch of pins and lie about how you earned them". Most non-scouting parents couldn't find our council's shop with a GPS and a 3 day head start. Also, one of the first hings written, "He asked me what kind of proof that his son achieved certain badges and achievements he needed to provide me with." tells me a bit as well. If I'm reading this right, he approached you about doing what was needed, instead of demanding you take them at face value.

One of the things that makes popcorn sales an interesting topic for debate is the fact that different councils have verrrrrrrrrry different commission rates. I happen to be lucky enough to reside in a council with a very generous commission rate, so it is a very popular fund raiser down here. If my commission rate were in under 20% like they are where DenZero resides, I might not consider it a wise investment in time, and go wash a few hundred cars.

KISMIF, Speaking as a District Popcorn Chairman, let me first say kudos for wanting to plan one in the first place. A Kickoff is the best way to get a group of scouts motivated. If you haven't received one already, speak with your local representation (District P'corn Chair, DE) about obtaining this year's training DVD. We had one for each of our selling units in our Kickoff box, and it has great info on planning one. You can also find good info on the Trails End web site. One specific thing I can think of off the top of my head is if you are doing prizes, see if it's possible to have a few examples at your Kickoff. Last year our council had sample prizes the units could borrow for the night. There is a big difference in showing a boy a picture of a prize and holding up the prize itself. DenZero, Please believe me when I say this is not meant in a negative way. But if your leaders consider the council popcorn kickoff meeting a "waste of time", not selling popcorn is probably a good idea. The reason I say it is not meant negatively is because I can only speak for my experience. In my experience the units that are not represented are the ones that have the most issues because they missed out on the one or two changes to the process compared to the previous year.

I agree 100%. Do not get me wrong, I'm going into my last year as a DL and I absolutely love the CS Program. But where was it written that putting on the tan shirt is the same thing as putting on a cape? I have never had any involvement in Little League baseball, but I know that almost everywhere parents are REQUIRED to help in some capacity. How that message never got out about Scouting is a mystery to me. I actually had a parent on a school night ask me "Does a bus come by to pick him up and drop him off for the meetings?" I know it's easy for a total stranger to say, but if there is truly no hope in any change this year, and you know it will only be a miserable, stress-filled time, I would say it's time to move on. As far as the other parents are concerned, one of three things will happen. They will either: Step up in your absence Quit, which shows you something too Follow you But like I said, it's easy for me to say. I can appreciate how tough this type of decision can be. Good luck, I wish you well.

The biggest thing I would say right now is relax. Your WB staff should provide great support in helping you develop a ticket. I was concerned about trying to come up with 5 myself, but after a couple of nights in the woods, with all of my patrol mates bouncing ideas off one another, I found they sort of came to me naturally. Just do yourself a favor, and don't forget to enjoy yourself. It's a great experience.

I agree Nach. It's funny, but it seems the opinion of some is, "Congratulations on earning this award. Now put it away and never speak of it again, because you should be ashamed if anyone saw it on your uniform." And maybe those that wear the uniform when others might think it "silly" just want to be included. How do you think the one boy out of uniform feels?

ScoutMomof...did you say 5?!?! Being the Popcorn Chairman for my district, I hate to hear that many of your families don't see the benefit of the Trails End sales, but that's not an uncommon story. What I would do is continue to let the two that do want to sell participate, and when their prize order comes in present them at a pack meeting. As for other fund raising ideas, if you have people that are willing a garage sale is always a good one. If you tell people it is for a Cub Scout unit, you might also have people donate items they just don't need any more. I know if one troop that had people donate items up to old washers and dryers. Another avenue is to seek a like-minded captured audience. At our district Pinewood Derby two years ago, our pack ran a concession stand. Trust me when I say Cub Scout families will not blink about paying $1.00 for a can of soda to support a fellow unit. And since a District Derby can run for a while, you have people looking to buy a burger around 11:00 after that Egg McMuffin they grabbed on the way in has worn off. If your district has any similar events coming up (service projects, belt loop bonanzas, etc.) you could ask your district leadership about the possibility. The biggest thing about fund raising is to first decide what you want to do, then figure out how much you need to do it. That way you can know when to stop.

I apologize if this is the wrong category for this post, but involves Cubs and Boy Scouts. I am preparing my den for their W2 year. I want my parents to be well informed when visiting troops. To do so, I want to give them a list of questions for the SMs they will meet. The ones I have are: What is the plan for a new scouts first 6 - 12 months? How are your patrols set up? How often do you camp? How often do you have other outings, and what sort of outings would they be? What is, and who is in, your adult leadership structure? What is the troop's policy on cell phones? Other electronics? What equipment will my scout need? What does the troop expect of my scout? What does the troop expect from me? Do scouts taught mainly by scouts, or are they taught more by adults? Does the troop have a set schedule to move a scout to Eagle, or is it left to the scout to earn on hos own, with encouragement? I guess I'm wondering from the SMs out there is if this is a good idea at all, and if so did I miss anything? Thanks for any input you may have.

Any nifty campfire snack recipe you might want to share. A spirit of adventure for any possible "midnight missions" (depending on your CD and SPL for the class of course) A positive attitude. I am always amazed at the ones who go, then act miserable. The training is valuable, but...shhhh...it's fun too. Lastly, I wish I had been a Good Ol' Beaver. Wait a minute, I am!!

Actually, after re-reading this thread, I was thoroughly convinced that someone was acting like an idiot. Imagine my surprise when I discovered it was me. scoutldr, my sincerest apologies. As for my original posting and it's intent, I let my Patrol Leaders know if someone didn't understand their direction, it's not necessarily the fault of the recipient. Sometimes, one's own medicine is the most bitter to swallow.

One more box of popcorn per Scout ought to do it.

I spun this one from the new Den Leader that was asked to serve on his District Committee. Is this common across the country, that unit leaders are recruited for District positions? This is definitely the way it is in my District. I'm wondering if there are any Districts out there that actively recruit adults outside of Scouting to serve on the DC. It just seems to me that there might be an untapped resource out there of adults who believe in the program but not necessarily want to be a front line leader.

This is exactly like a training course on collaboration I am putting together at work. Using the catapult from the Webelos handbook, each team is going to get a box of supplies needed. Problem is, there will be an item missing from each box that will have been "accidentally" placed in the other team's box. These items can easily be retrieved if they run back to their desks. The object of the game will be stated as "The goal is for each team to assemble their catapult and fire a marshmallow. This is a timed activity." Then, after the expected firing of marshmallows at each other, they will be informed that there was only one team in the room. Basically, the course will be about recognizing who your team actually is, a little (I hate to use an overdone term) outside the box type of thinking. I remember the game from my WB course (G.O. Beaver SR729), and we had a blast. I never understood those who pay the money, give up their time, and then be a miserable cuss for 6 days in the woods. xpanel, glad you won, and I hope it made you happy. But as far as I can tell, the only Wood Badge trophy I ever received were the beads my Wolf Cub son placed around my neck at my beading ceremony.

"Short answer: no. Since the trailer was already purchased, isn't this discussion moot?" scoutldr, Forgive all of us on this thread for wasting your time. I was under the impression that this was a friendly forum for sharing ideas and opinions. My mistake. But if you actually read my original posting, it was a general topic thrown out for discussion. It just included an example. But I guess you missed that.

Just curious, what are everyone's opinions on packs using the money they raise to buy a trailer? I joined pack last that had a good popcorn season a few years ago. They bragged on the fact that they raised so much money that they bought a trailer for their pack. Fast forward to this past season, the trailer moved once. That was for a Webelos camping trip in which everything carried could easily gone in parent's vehicles. So my question is, can anybody think of a good reason for a pack to buy their own trailer?

Well, it's been resolved, and much for the better I believe. The CO that wanted to start a unit is now going to go with a CS Pack as opposed to a troop. They already have some leadership and excited scouts. I told them to let me know if they needed anything. Like I said, these are great people, and I know they will be successful. As for me, I will be taking the advice of having my son cross over into an existing unit in my area. I've decided that I can "Do My Best" to encourage the other boys in my den to cross over, but I have to think of my son's scouting first. For me to try and start a new troop would be unfair to him and any scout that joined. They would be waiting for me to get my act together, and then where are they in a few years?

As a Webelos 2 DL, this is my opinion (and that's all any of these are, really. As far as I know "cell phone usage" has never appeared in any official BSA publication). Carrying a cell phone can be an excellent opportunity to teach responsibility and respect of others than an outright ban on their existence. I have had a scout in my den since he was a Tiger and I was his leader. From day 1 this scout has had a cell phone in his possession. What a 1st grader needs one for is beyond me, but that's another issue. I think I have actually seen the thing 3 times in 4 years. He is fully aware, and his mother supports, the fact that this phone is HIS responsibility. Basically, "If you lose it don't come crying to us". It has also been addressed that he is to use it respectfully, and only when necessary. Like I said, 3 times in 4 years. I think that's pretty good. My question is this. And sincerely, please correct me if I'm wrong. Like I said, I'm a W2DL with no Troop experience as a boy or adult. But isn't the BS program meant to be boy-led, and excluding a safety or extreme issues, the rules for conduct not covered in official publication created by the boys? I appreciate the view of "There is the book, and there is reality", but if the SM continually comes down with edicts of "You can't do this, you can't do that" doesn't that take away from the ability of boys to truly create their own program?