lrsap

ScoutDaddy, Like others have stated, a little detail would be very helpful about this one. But taking your post at face value, it reads that he wasn't denied a BOR because of the missing patch but a SMC. Not sure how others here feel about that, but it would make a difference to me. It's one thing to not get a job interview because you showed up in jeans and a t-shirt. It's another to have a job where your boss won't talk to you because of your wrinkled khakis. But to say again, a little detail could go a long way with this one. P.S. Beavah, not arguing balls & strikes with a LL Ump, whether he is right or wrong? Thank you again for another great phrase I plan to borrow in the near future.

Better late than never we are getting our SC plans together. We are looking at Camp Shands in Hawthorne, FL. The guys got interested when they saw the pictures of the tree houses, and they are still available the week we want to go. Anyone been there recently that can give me a heads up on their program? One thing I noticed is their 1st Year camper program is actually split into three groups, TF, 2nd and 1st that don't take up their whole day. While I'm not a big fan of 1st year programs, that aspect sounded at least different if not intriguing.

Another thing that doesn't help is the fact that event innocent friendships with fellow Scouters of the opposite sex can cause strife. Coming home with stories about the great time I spent over the weekend with Sally, Sue or Mary is sure different than talking about time spent with Bob, Joe or Sam.

I found myself in the stereotypical burn out place a couple of years ago. The people you need to watch are those like me. I had no history in Scouting personally until I went to sign my kid up for Tigers and came home with a New Leader Kit. At the beginning, it is all so much fun "I wish I had done this sooner!" Next thing you know, you keep saying yes to everything because "It's just so much fun and a worthwhile thing to do". I started my Scouter career thinking those that stood at RT intros and read the 13 positions they had as role models. These are the same people that told me "Sure, you can be Den Leader and Cubmaster". All that is to say I am still working my way back into my wife liking the idea of Scouting again. After stepping way back and letting the fire re-ignite helped me, but the over-volunteering I did may have irreparably affected my lovely wife's attitude towards the program.

My son was just voted in as SPL of the troop. He has quite a few ideas on troop improvement, and I am happy to let him go and lead. Now, hold me back as he told me he saw an old picture of some Boy Scouts and really (I mean REALLY) liked the........berets. Sigh

The boys have troop elections coming up next week. This will be our first election since becoming a much larger troop, and I would like for it to be a special event. Anybody have any good tips, and maybe what not to do, for a fun and productive election night?

Not quite sure how to put it other than this. My son and his best friend met in Tiger Cubs. We have become best friends with his parents. God forbid, if anything happens to either of us as couples, the other couple will assume custody and raise the late couples son as their own. We love them and their son, and the best thing Scouting has done for my life is bring these two families together. If I am wrong in giving this child a ride, I am quiting Scouting and the six of us will have fun camping. I love it, but I really don't need it that much.

Honestly, to me it sounds like you have the start of a program that keeps boys interest for a couple of years, then they hand for a while and leave. These great 11-13 year olds are going to be the same age as the 15 year olds you seem so willing to discard because they are dropping the ball. The job of a Scoutmaster is to oversee a program that appeals to boys from 11-17. Nobody said it would be easy. The problems with your troop's program are not of your making, but by accepting the job they are your responsibility. If you had one older boy out of six with an issue, I would say it is his problem. With multiple older boys in the same boat, I say (from of course, the non-seeing perspective of an anonymous internet forum) look at the program first. A few questions you may ask are: *These trips they blow off, are they to the same place they have been 5 or 6 years in a row? *Are the camp-o-ree programs enjoyable, or do they have a history of being duds? *When they do make the trips, is there fun for them in addition to responsibility, or is it three days of lead this, train newbies on that, with no time for them to stretch out on their own? I hope I didn't come off too jerky, because that wasn't my intent. You are doing a great service stepping up and taking point of this troop. Just don't make the mistake of missing the subtle signs boys give when they feel the program isn't their cup of tea anymore. Basically, they stop playing the game when it isn't fun anymore.

As a fellow Scouter, thank you for upholding the values of Scouting in the face of, well, an idiot. We had a circumstance happen like that a few years ago, except our pack was the one that had permission that turned out to be invalid and the troop that day had the proper permissions. There were a lot of confused faces for a moment and then the SM and I walked off to the side to figure it out like adults. Once we realized they were the ones who should rightfully be there, we said no problem, we would go and find another place. The SM then told us to set up at one of the doors and we can share the business until we got something lined up. We made a few bucks, found an alternate locale and it turns out both units had a great day of sales. Our new place did even better than the place we originally wanted. As far as this situation goes, I have been the District Popcorn Chair for five years now. Easy gig for 361 days out of the year. The situation described is exactly where I would be sticking my nose into and telling the SM he needs to get over himself and behave according to the Oath and Law his Scouts recite at every meeting. Afterward I'm sure I will hear about how he knows so and so, has sold millions in popcorn for council and he will never sell again. At that point it's a win-win for me because he is either blowing smoke and sells again next year or I have one less headache to deal with. BS-87, I like your possible scenario as far as how the initial conflict took place. Here is a guy who, in a somewhat Scouting environment is the only Scouter there and he is trying to exercise some authority to people who could care less about his title. It's funny when reality strikes some people in the head. What we do is important work in the lives of young men. But just because you are a Good Ol whatever from class such and such means you have about as much authority to tell an adult you don't know what to do as an end table. He's lucky he didn't try that with some Scout parents I've known over the years. He could have wound up with a black eye and a story to tell. And the moral of the story about our mix-up? I was a Tiger leader that year. Five years later four of my Webelos ended up crossing over into his troop instead of the troop of our CO. Sow your seeds wisely.

Could it be the 800 lbs gorilla in the room nobody seems to want to talk about much? If you could make a list of people who, if honest, would say "I want this Scout to advance to the rank of Eagle". The Scout's parents National (figured I would get these out of they way first since they get the most heat in these forums) The Scout The Scoutmaster The Troop Committee COR District Council MBC With all these people having a desire to see a Scout reach Eagle it's time to introduce the gorilla, or gorillas: Personal Management Citizenship in the Community Citizenship in the Nation Citizenship in the World Communications The theory behind Eagle required merit badges is a worthy one. The skills and experiences acquired through these merit badges, when done properly, are valuable. But what has happened is the highest rank that is possible to earn in a program based on getting outside is contingent on work done that would be considered classroom oriented. If we were to rename these merit badges as a teenage boy sees them, they might look something like this: Math Social Studies Social Studies Social Studies Language Arts I'm not sure I've have yet to meet a Scout that says he joined Scouting because he just can't get enough school. Because of all this, the list of well-meaning people who all want a Scout to advance to Eagle can change their thinking from, "How can we offer a program the boys will embrace and enthusiastically strive to reach the highest rank possible" to, "How can we convince these boys to do these merit badges they hate so we can get them to Eagle". If you look at the list of people and positions, you can fill in any of them in the blanks of the statement "_______ is putting pressure on _______ to get this boy to Eagle". All this causes the school-type ERMB (Hey, just made a new acronym!) to be cheapened just to get them done. Enter the Merit Badge Academies, Badge-a-palooza, or whatever you want to call them. We get 20 kids in a room, talk about George Washington, set pre-reqs that are never checked to see if they are done, and here is your ERMB. Not only does Scouting require school-type merit badges for the highest rank of an outdoor program, these merit badges are treating as an annoyance, leaving them not only boring for the boys but ultimately useless. Let me ask you, instead of the list of ERMB I gave, your instead saw silver linings around: Cooking Orienteering Pioneering Canoeing Backpacking Would you not think that young man has earned the highest rank of an outdoor program?

As far as the "two finger salute" he gave me, I simply raised my eyebrows almost to the back of my head and walked away. He got the message because the next thing out of his mouth was "Excuse me". And I hope I didn't give an impression of the boy being a hellion. He's not necessarily bad, but he is most definitely the center of his own universe.

Thank you all very much for your input. I hope my comments didn't come off as being negative towards home schooling Scouts, but I can definitely realize how they can sound that way. Like I said, I don'y have much experience with a home schooled boy, so I just want to see if there is something specific out there I need to know. All I know is in 14 years of parenting and 7+ years of Scouting, I have NEVER seen anything like this kid.

Yes, I'm about to go there. I have one young man in my troop that is home schooled. As a qualifier, this is the first home schooled Scout I have ever led, and actually one of the few I've ever met. The young man appears to have a lot to learn about social interaction. Perhaps this is why he is in Scouts. But I have never met an 11 year-old child that puts himself on equal terms as adults like this boy does. He was on his first camping trip with the troop a couple of weeks ago. Of course, his dad came along to make sure he would be ok. Some of the highlights of the weekend include: * A two-finger "come here" wave at me as he looked at me and said, "Hey, come here a minute". * Not being "hungry" during his patrols breakfast on get-away morning, but his dad needing to make "a couple of stops" one their way back home. * When they were ready to leave and go home, him looking at his dad and saying, "Dad get in the car. Let's go." And dad obediently following direction. There are some other instances, and I have been discussing the issue with my ASMs about the best way to work with the boy. I hate to use such a crude terms, but it almost seems as if we need to "break" him. Has anyone ever worked with a home schooled boy that lives in a world revolves around him home as this one seems to? I want to stress this is not an attack on home schooling on my part, just seeking some experienced advice on a specific situation. I know the behavior displayed by this scout can be displayed by any scout, public, private or home schooled. But I can't help but think the home schooling plays a part, or is at least a symptom, with this one.

Basement, are you in Florida? Because I have some boys with partials I would love to send to you. I know I'm new to the SM game and will accumulate a decent list with knowledge, but does everyone have a hard time finding MBC that aren't "worksheet and checklist" types, or at least see the good ones are highly outnumbered?

Thank you all for the replies and knowledge sharing. Kudu, I do still have the 16 (almost 17 year old) with us, but his schedule as he has grown older leaves him in a position that he wouldn't be around as much as I would like to effectively serve as PL. He is very dependable and is there every time he says he will. But work and other obligations make him just not there enough. Beav, love the comment about young teenage boys not understanding subtle. You are so right about that one. I had a great conversation with him last night. He agrees that he should have handled himself better during the meeting and we both seem on the same page. He will also be working together with his friend, the other one disrupting the meeting, in training the newest Scouts in menu planning and duty roster responsibility. The young man has yet to hold a leadership position, so other than the time he served as patrol cook a while ago he has never had to be responsible for the training of others. If I failed to mention, this young man just entered our troop so most of his FC Req came signed off before he got here. I had a nice chat with him when he joined and I don't have any questions about his accumulation of skills. While a little disappointed he did not receive his BOR last night, he left the conversation on a positive note. I'm happy to say so did I, and I will be shocked if he does not have his FC sewn on by the beginning of November. One more thing. Do I get bonus points for getting Kudu, fred and Beavah to agree on something? :-)