LPC_Thumper

As the boys start checking on who has which utensiles for cooking, and learn that the pancake turner has been left behind. The SPL speaks up and says, "Hey guys don't worry about it, we'll just have scrambled pancakes!"

I think we have the question of popcorn sales is handled (rather nicely I might add), the other part of the question I read was about a "Key 4". I think it's important to review the concept that many Councils/Districts try to have a District/Council Chair that are known in the community. This person while well intended and a real aid needs some help getting the Scouting Volunteers to line up. A District/Council Vice-Chair is a GREAT way to do that. Many times that Vice-Chair is also the program chair (since Program Committee has several others that report to them). Hope this helps. You might want to refer back to the District Operations Book that is published by National. It makes all this very clear. (Wow I just compressed my WEEK at Philmont into a couple of paragraphs. Sure glad I like going there )

Here's one more voice for you... First Welcome to the forums!! Second, go right ahead and do the work. Even if you do it wrong. It shows how important these are to you, it reflects that you are trying to be proactive, and basically proves that you are KEWL (like how I did the spelling?) As I was saying, even if you missed the point, even if you got it wrong... You are trying to lace your boots tight, and hike down the trail. I counsel both of these badges, and I can't tell you how many times I have sat with a Scout and thought "Why can't you just try on your own? Why do you think you can't try this without me?" Good luck with these two, and good luck getting your Eagle. It's a lot of work, but it is well worth it.

All I can tell you is what they taught me at PTC this summer. Partial Merit Badge work is fine. It is very acceptable to think that a boy could start a badge with a staff member from a summer camp (that might actually not be from his Council) and then get home and find a counselor for that badge so he may finish. This relationship is to only work on those items the Scout has not yet finished. The conselor may retest on previously completed items only when he feels that there might not be a working knowledge of the prerequisite items that are still left unsigned. This could help motivate a Scout to finish up, since if the Counselor turns up an area where you are exposed to doing more work again, wouldn't it be better to finish this up?? Hope this helps.

Sounds to me like we need to continue to be aware that people watch us, and judge us by our behavior. I understand that in a commercial camp ground there are different sets of rules, but we need to be careful when we car camp that we still are courteous and kind. Or does that only apply when we are on the John Muir Trail?

The western troops want part of this too. PLEASE let us know what you don't have. I'm serious. Are you missing Dutch Ovens, tents, what? Let us help, please! I'm so tired of feeling totally helpless in this, I want to get involved. I would love to help you guys. Do you have a place to camp this year? How do you feel about surfing in the Pacific, can we help you? I know of many units here in the Wine Country of California (for those of you that don't know California Council Geography) Los Padres is 1/2 between LA & SF along the coast. Please let us help.

DO lasagna Brown 1 pound of ground beef, drain, and set aside (optional) In same DO AFTER you drain greese from hamburger, or place 1/2 Cup of oil in pan. Layer on level of uncooked lasagna noodles, sauce (you can use ANY sort of Italian sauce for this, cans, bottles, home made), the the meat (if used), then white cheese (motzarella is best, but provolone works, as does jack, or white, or cheddar) repeat until one package of noodles have been used. Top off with sauce and then cheese. Use about a 12" DO (regular, or deep, again both work) Place about 6 pieces of charcoal on the bottom, and ring the top of the lid. (Charcoal is lit well before placing) 15 minutes after starting, rotate lid clockwise 1/4 turn 15 minutes after 1st rotation (30 minutes after you started) rotate lid clockwise 1/4 turn AND rotate entire DO 1/2 turn counter-clockwise. 15 minutes after 2nd rotation (45 minutes after you started) roate lid clockwise 1/4 turn 15 minutes after 3rd rotation (1 hour after you started), check for completion. If done serve, if not repeat rotations again, this time check at each step. If you've done DO, I'm sorry for the detail, if you haven't trust me... we let our New Scout Patrols do this, and they are just amazed how easy it is. (It really does WORK)

In my troop, the TG are appointed by the SM because of their GREAT scout skills, and attitude. It is known that the good scouts are TGs, the SPL and ASPL or left after the new TG are appointed. Their appointment is only for 6 months, and we have a special campout for them (which includes a trip to our local water park). As the CC, I fix a special BBQ for them the last evening of their training. They leave their regular patrol, but leave their patrol patch on their sleeve. The meet the incoming scouts and help them decide how many new patrols we will have. We keep our patrols aged based, so the patrol that is formed now, stays until they age out. They start teaching during that first patrol meeting, help them decide on their patrol name, flag, yell, everything. They help them organize their patrol box, and get them to the market to shop. Their goal is to work themselves out of a job by the end of the first six months. They and the SPL & ASPL hold 3 campouts over the first year. These campouts are also staffed by adults as needed. We call them advancement campouts, and again they are a big deal. As an older boy, you can't go to our High Adventure trips unless you have served on staff of an advancement campout. (We do trips that older boys like to do). As soon as the NSP, can make a menu that reflects proper nutrition, involves actually cooking food, and involves setting up their patrol camp site, we as adults invite the TG to hang out with us. (Provide his food, pitch his tent, that he gets by himself, etc) When we know that he has accomplished the task, we ask him to remove the TG patch, we also give him a placque that recognizes his contributions to the troop, and invite him to go and join his troop again. It's a big deal that we handle at a campfire, we also tell the NSP, that they aren't a NSP anymore. See NSP need TG, our troop no longer has a TG, therefore we don't have a NSP. We tell them that they are now ready to act like all the other patrols, and don't need a baby sitter anymore. Up to now (only been doing this for about 9 years now) this has worked for us. Hope this helps...

I have been on staff for Woodbadge 21 Century, let's sort of review... According to the official course guide, you should have youth Venturers on staff. They come in during the second half of course. They are really there for LNT, and any other needs that could arise (remember you have Cub Leaders, Comittee folks, etc that may have very limited camping experience, and could create problems for staff). Yes they are on staff, no they don't wear beads, as far as them actually attending WB, I think (notice now I'm changing from what I've read to what I think) that if the invitation to them spelled out their roll, and if they understood they weren't getting the full training, the feeling of "been there, done that" is removed. As I read, I realized that no one has weighed in that actually has a copy of the course with them. While I don't have a copy of the course in front of me, I can tell you that on the section dealing with LNT, they give the idea of having a Crew come and present this example. The Troop Guide has a lecture, and then the Crew shows how it actually works.

In our troop, when the boys get old enough to go on our high adventure trips (we rotate Philmont, Northern Tier, Sea Base, and Jambo) we provide them with a "lung powered, energy efficient, pocket radio". (That's right, we stole an idea from the old Woodbadge course...) The boys love it, they can pull any song, any time they want. The "radio" is 4.25" X 11", has 2 custom bent metal antentae (they are called staples for those of you with no imagination). The boys love it, the adults do too. This summer as the ran around Jambo, they developed this top 10 list, take it away Casey Cassem... 10 - The Quartermaster's Store 9 - It Ain't Gonna Rain No More 8 - On Top of Spaghetti 7 - Pink Pajamas 6 - I love the Mountains (we have our own version that talks about local vegetation) 5 - The Canoe Song 4 - If I Weren't a Boy Scout 3 - Ain't That Funky 2 - Robert Baden-Powell 1 - Malu Malu Malu You'll notice most of these are not serious, most have actions, or dance steps, and the boys love them. Rather than saying let's sing (insert song name here), their radios have the songs numbered (there are about 30 songs for each annual update of the radio), and they tell each other which song to sing by deciding on "channels". You'll hear things like "OK scouts and scouters, tune your radio to channel 24... ready? 1, 2, 3, 4..." Hope this helps.

E, I have read many of your posts and been very interested in your unique, and direct approach. May I offer you my shot at the "speech", when young men in our troop have held Eagle for six months, I talk to them (under direction of our SM). It takes about 20 seconds. I ask them if they are interested in earning Eagle. (most tell me they are) I ask them what hurdles they still have. (most tell me about one of the big 3 merit badges (you know which those are) and we talk about how to get past them) I ask about their project. (it amazes me, how often these boys know what they want to do. Some have ideas that aren't valid Projects, but we talk about why they want to do that, and sure enough, they come around) I then tell them I have one last thing to tell them, and ask them if they have any questions. (There may be some, but most of the time there aren't any requests for information) I then hold out my left hand, and look them in the eye. I ask them if they understand that there are people that make excuses for not getting done. I tell them how proud of them I am, and how I don't want them ever making excuses for their actions. I end up telling them, "You are too smart, too strong, too brave, to ever have to worry about what could have been, or what should have been. You need to get done if for no other reason than you are too good to be labeled as someone that just couldn't finish." Many young men over the years, have come back to me with that badge on their chest to thank me for what I did. I look at them and say, "I didn't do anything special, I simply spoke the truth." Let me ask you, is this too pushy? Am I overstepping my bounds. or doing something wrong? In all honesty, all I'm trying to do is help them see what's going to happen. Good luck with your speech!

I am going to answer your question about what we get from Philmont and Jambo with a question. If I told you how to have a troop have 27 Eagle Scouts in it's first 7 years of existence, would you like to copy the program? Or how about having 10 under 21 year old ASMs, would you like that? Would you like to have the boys that graduate out (at age 18 of course) that are away at school drop in on your troop meetings when they are in town? Maybe you'd like to have those young men that make Eagle before they turn 18 to work on palms and serve as Leaders of YOUR troop? Do I have your attention yet? Our older boy program is a rotation of High Adventure activities. We go to Philmont, Northern Tier, Sea Base, and Jambo. We just include it on our calendars. You qualify by holding a position of leadership during the previous year, passing the same Scout Spirit requirements you had for rank advancement, and get the next rank (even if your're an Eagle, you can get a palm). Our boys love it, they work with the younger ones, and so far, we've only had one young man that made Eagle, and then disappeared. I think we've stubbled onto something that helps the boys as was previously mentioned (by lots of people, and done very well), and also it helps the troop. Just my two cents worth, I'm sure others will have other things to say, it just works for us.

Capella, First off, WELCOME... Now with that said, do you have a copy of the LDS Scouting Manual? Talk to your ward clerk. You'll find that in LDS units fundraising more often that 1/year will get your Stake President excited (Polictically Correct speak, for UPSET, as it's rather clear) The idea of having a first aid kit first, is a great one. Many people will tell you that you have to have matching tents, patrol boxes, matching dishes, etc is VERY important. Out here in California, we would say "Huh?" You can run a nice troop without any of this nice things. There is really no reason not to attend New Leader Essientals, be sure to take your Young Men's President with you, and a member of the Bishopric. (You might have to remind them that there are many leaders will tell them that 80% of their time should be spent with the youth.) If you have young men that can't get uniforms, can't go to camp, can't do the young men's program, that there is money (if not on the ward/branch level then it's there on a stake/district one) to help. I think you may now notice from all the specifics that you have someone out here, that knows the program. Let's just leave it as I'm an un-named source that knows exactly what he's talking about, OK? Good luck, and let us know how it goes. You'll have what you need, just talk to your Bishop/Branch President, OK?

Hi John, What I do is what is explained in the handbook for leaders. The scout has up unitl his 18th birthday to ccmplete the requirements of a certain badge. If the young man did a poor job on something, and you signed off on it, then you just work on the areas that were not completed. If on the other hand the young man is sure he had completed certain things and has no record of it, I tell him I can't remember what he did, and ask him to redo the items he doesn't have completed. If I face a situation of a young man being discouraged by this, I just tell him that I want to help him feel like he has badges and ranks, rather than pretty pieces of cloth and nice thread. Most boys want to earn what they receive, in my experience, boys that work at Scouting build that trait. My explanation seems to work well for them.

Reading this post reminds me of my son's first summer camp. I was on campstaff, and my 12 year old son was taking basketry from my Woodbadge Ticket Counselor (for those that haven't done WB, let's just say that the WTC helps with goals that you work on after the course) I was sitting between the 2 of them, and we were all enjoying the shade, a cool soda, and just visiting. My son was working on his basket, oh and by the way, he was doing it wrong. I (the Assistant Camp Program Director) took as much of this as I could stand and finally took the project away from my son, undid the parts that he had done incorrectly, and was in the process of fixing the basket. My buddy took off his ball cap, and proceeded to ignore G2SS... He hit me (with his hat) grabbed the project from me, stood up, looked at me, pointed at his chair, and said "Leave that boy alone! Sit and that chair and be happy!" He undid the part of the project I had worked on, handed it back to my son and said "You know he means well... You're lucky to have a dad like this, just don't let him do that again." Was this a problem? Not for me, nor my son. Was this kind? Did I mention we all laughed when he got in our new chairs? My son is still as proud as anyone of this basket (even if it was done incorrectly). He earned his badge, and is proud of being a 4th generation Eagle Scout. I share this story to try and bring home that point that sometimes we do things that we know we shouldn't. When we see those things happen we need to try and correct them as best as we can, without shooting the messanger. What do you do with anchors that don't want to be sails? We try and find areas that they'd love to work, where they have the skills and temprament for. I was once a COPE director, because the camp director needed one. I'm much more equiped to be more of support staff, and would love that chance to help. I think all of our jobs are to try and do the best we can for the boys. Those sorts that are in it for the glory, should be reminded that this is a volunteer organization, and that it is much more glamorous on the other side of the fence. Good luck with this one, it's hard.