LovetoCamp

Welcome aboard Kevin, If you're chomping at the bit to get to work, I think incorporating some Powerpoint into the VLSC modules would be the ticket. Could you work with the gentleman you spoke with and see how he would go about creating one for the first module? Thanks and look forward to working with you. P

Hops, I'll send you the registration form next week. Send $25 in to reserve a spot. We'd love to have you and your fellow Venturers. You'll need this course to complete the Silver Award. Welcome Aboard!!! P

We're presenting the VLSC (with a Sea Scout atmosphere) on Feb 25, 26, 27, 2005 in Central Illinois. We'll cover the VLSC, absolutely top-notch instructors, and also include Venturing YP, Venturing Ethical Discussions, and several Bronze Award/Sea Scout Ordinary requirements. The Petty Officer Academy is open to Venturers, Sea Scouts, Explorers, and Boy Scouts over age 14. We'll cap it at 50 students. 10 spots are already filled. Cost is $75 for the weekend. If anyone would like further information, please PM me. Course Commodore

ASM1, We're coming with a nice sized group. We're most likely going to camp at Artillery Ridge right next to the park. We're planning on squeezing in as many things as possible and I'm really looking forward to another guided tour. P

Following along with what Bob said, a Venture Patrol needs its own ASM who is willing to get outside and outdoors. A Powderhorn graduate would be a perfect fit for a Venture Patrol ASM because he or she would be filled with ideas and activities and ready and willing to get outside and do them with your bunch.

Eamonn, Here's one. An Arts and Hobbies Crew. http://www.ellasharp.org/pages/venture.html Here's the link to a list of posts and crews and their specialties. http://www.exploring.org/

I've heard of that town. I also heard that Illinois State University is one of the finest in the nation, The Harvard of the Midwest. P

Kevin, it's your lucky day.

I would have done it for free. Just needed a couple bucks for the weekends!!! I do recall several guys who joined with large families who were just plain dirt poor. They got a four bedroom apartment, pay, health care, food money, food stamps, utilities, PX and commisary. But, BUT, the two I'm thinking of right now, were the most lazy couple of ragbag, rudypoots, lazy sluggos I've ever met. No wonder they couldn't make it on the outside.....come to think of it, they didn't have stellar or long army careers either. I don't know about now, but during my last tour 88-92, we had an army that was taking nobody with a criminal record, nobody without a high school diploma and good scores on the asvab test, and in our unit, we had 0% using illegal substances. So it really wasn't the occupation of last resort by any means. I finished my B.S. while in the army. I paid for books and 10% of the tuition. Our brigade computer smart guy, a jump master parachutist, is now a millionaire living on the coast in South Carolina. I called him Bill Gates with a machine gun. The guys I worked with in Saudi Arabia, 8 senior sergeants, 4 captains, 1 major, 1 LTC, I'd match up against a lot of corporate staffs. If we couldn't outsmart them, we could always out shoot them. The major made General. The captains were electrical engineers. The sergeants knew the equipment better than the civilians that designed it. So, the military may be a step up or a way out for a lot of people, but there is still a lot of performing that goes with it.

Giuliani/Schwarzenegger 2008!!! Nuklure power, the polution solution!!!

SA, Thanks for the offer and if we ever get up that way, we'll take you up on it. So in return, if your out our way, we'd be glad to take you out on Lake Michigan. As for Kerry, I don't like him. I have a special burn in my heart for the counter-culture types: Abbie Hoffmans, Jerry Ruebens, Tom Haydens, Jane Fondas, and John Kerrys of the 60's. Him being our President, just ain't right. The primary process shook out, and he's what we got. Did, I say, it just ain't right? I could have certainly got behind a class act like Joseph Lieberman, but it is what it is. I don't understand how labor and working people can get behind a a billionaire, who yachted with the Kennedys as a kid. Wasn't W out there chopping wood like Abe Lincoln? P

A Venturing Patrol and a Venturing Crew are two different things. Below is a post describing a Venture Patrol written by Yak Herder. Yak_Herder Forum Member Registered: 8/3/2001 Location: Gilroy, California Posts: 42 View member's profile Send Private Message Ignore this user RE: Venture Patrol Posted: Tuesday, 8/24/2004: 1:47:11 PM Member to Member Private Message quality I wrote this proposal regarding Venture Patrols some time ago. The ideas discussed are being tested in several councils as we speak. At the risk of further muddying the distinctions between a VenturE Patrol and VenturING Crew (something that is not at all clear in this thread), I offer it to you for your benefit. The Venture Patrol The Venture Patrol is a little known but highly effective option for Scouters wishing to better address the needs and interests of the older Scouts within the Troop. With so many Senior Scouting options available, why would you want to consider implementing a Venture Patrol? The target audience is already saturated with a host of Scouting options that deeply overlap one another. In addition to simply staying in the Troop and forming a Venture Patrol, Scouts over the age of fourteen have the option of joining a Varsity Team, a Sea Scout Ship or Venturing Crew. Some are given the opportunity to join the Order of the Arrow. Most of these programs are a direct result of Scoutings attempts over the years to address the needs of the older Scouts, something traditional Scouting simply does not do well enough. Very early on, within a couple of years of the Boy Scouting movements founding, Baden-Powell recognized this failing in his program design and organized Sea Scouting. History has demonstrated the majority of older boys need a different Scouting format. But with so many solutions in play, the question remains, Which one? The best answer is often the simplest one. What The Venture Patrol Is A High Adventure Patrol Venture Patrols are such an obscure and underdeveloped segment of Scouting that few Scouters even know that they exist, let alone what they could do with one. When the Venturing program was introduced in 1998, the existing Venture Patrol program began to suffer from the challenge of an identity crisis. The similarity in naming has proven to have be troublesome. Even Scouting veterans misunderstand and inadvertently confuse the terminology. While both Venture Patrols and Venturing are designed to be high adventure programs for older boys, a Venture Patrol is not Venturing. Venture Patrols are unique type of Patrol within a Boy Scout Troop. They are distinguished from other Patrols mainly by what they do. The assumption is made that members of a Venture Patrol have either completed the requirements for rank advancement or are no longer interested in pursuing them. The emphasis is less on activities that yield a diversified education (the merit badge program) and focused more actively on doing and using skills already learned. Little information is given in the current BSA literature describing a Venture Patrol. The Scoutmasters Handbook reads: A Venture patrol is an optional patrol within the troop made up of Scouts age 13 and older. These troop members have the maturity and experience to take part in more challenging high-adventure outings. Whereas Venturing is a completely separate unit (a Crew), a Venture Patrol is just that; a Patrol forming a part of the Troop. As a Patrol within the Troop, the Venture Patrol utilizes essentially the same uniform, leadership structure and awards as the others in Boy Scouting. Members of a Venture Patrol wear a small patch that reads Venture on their uniform shirt over the Boys Scouts of America program strip. They have an Assistant Scoutmaster that works specifically with their Patrol and their own Venture Patrol Leader who represents them on the Patrol Leaders Council. Venturing, on the other hand, has a unique uniform (if any), a different leadership structure altogether and its own recognitions. While defining Venturing well exceeds the scope of this outline, it must be understood that Venturing is as distinctly different from Boy Scouting as Cub Scouting is. While a Venture Patrol is very similar in its activities, a Venture Patrol remains very much a Boy Scouting program in philosophy and methodology. What The Venture Patrol Can Be A Leadership Patrol There are a number of concepts and ideas floating around from earlier days in Scouting that can find their way into your Venture Patrol. The Pine Tree Patrol, Green Bar Patrol and Leadership Corps of yesteryear are good examples. Each combined the older Scouts within a Troop into the same Patrol. They enjoyed special privileges, but were not snobbish in nature. Being organized this way gave them opportunity to participate in more the challenging activities the Guide to Safe Scouting reserves for those over 14 years of age without involving younger Scouts. They also formed a reservoir of leaders that could be reliably drawn upon by the Troop for ad hoc needs. A Teaching Patrol One of the best ways to allow the Venture Patrol members to become elite without becoming elitist is to give them ample opportunity to serve the balance of the Troop and others. They should be examples, mentors, even leaders to the younger Scouts. Venturing employs this technique with its teaching others method. A Venture Patrol can incorporate that same teaching aspect in to their program. One of the finest leadership positions in Scouting is that of the Troop Guide. In much the same manner in which Venture Patrols suffer from obscurity and lack of use, so does the Troop Guide. Building on the concept of the Leadership Corps, the Venture Patrol and Troop Guides were made for one another. Members of the Venture Patrol who serve as Troop Guides to the younger Scouts, especially the New Scout Patrol, not only provide a valuable service to the Troop but also deepen their own understanding through teaching. In addition, they develop an even greater sense of self-worth as they begin to appreciate their contribution to the program and a better sense of their own abilities. Most young men begin to value the attendant rewards of that service more than the recreational pleasure or personal accomplishment that results from participation in the high adventure activities. The rewards of service through teaching, more than any other factor, improves retention. A Bridging Patrol Scouting learned long ago the value of a bridging unit. Retention in Scouting was significantly improved when the Webelos program was introduced, better tying Cub Scouting to Boy Scouting. Rather than simply relying on the boys to find their own way from the Pack to the Troop, Webelos points the boys directly at it. Scouting should have a similar means of pointing the young men towards Venturing. Venturing is far more than just Scouting for older boys. But it is no less a step beyond Scouting. No formal means currently exists for transitioning boys from the Scout Troop to the Venturing Crew. When utilized as a bridging unit, the unfortunate names of Venture Patrols and Venturing Crews (further compounded by the outdated terminology associated with the now discontinued Venture Crew) can be leveraged to reinforce the idea of a transition from Scouting to Venturing. While presently a stumbling block for even veteran Scouters, the terminology can become quite serviceable if the Venture Patrol is considered a step towards Venturing rather than merely another high adventure program. Proposed Changes A unique Look Members of a Venture Patrol require a uniform that distinctly sets them apart from the rest of the troop. There are many factors at work within the mind of a 14-year-old by that leads to this conclusion. The strongest of these is a general desire to disassociate themselves with the little kids in the Troop. This is the age when most are beginning to High School. They are struggling to join with their older High School peers and resist anything that pulls in the other direction. The tan/green uniform of Boy Scouting has that affect. Furthermore, they are becoming very image conscious. Many become embarrassed when identified as a Boy Scout. When this happens, rather than resent it, a wise Scoutmaster observing this behavior will understand it is an important insight into a young mans life and adjust accordingly. Uniforms remain no less an important tool, but a greater effort and more clever means will then be required to maintain its effectiveness. Another reality is the physical growth a young man experiences in his teen-age years. Most of them are wearing the same uniform shirt they got when they joined Boy Scouting. About the time he turns fourteen it becomes too small and uncomfortable. A new uniform has to be purchased. Most are unwilling to spend money on another shirt that they dont want to wear for reasons already discussed. Part of the success of earlier Senior Scouting programs had to do with an associated eligibility to wear a special uniform. They thereby took on a look that set them apart from the younger Scouts, often with uniforming details that more closely paralleled an adult Scouter. This is a simple but important aspect of Scouting that should not be overlooked today. One solution is to allow them to wear the green/gray Venturing uniform. If they eventually move on to the Venturing Crew, chances are they will want to purchase one. Since the need to buy a new uniform generally exists anyway, thriftiness suggests it be the Venturing uniform. With that, some method of distinguishing members of the Venture Patrol from a Venturing Crew is required. Taking a cue from what Cub Scouting is doing with the Webelos uniform, the simplest and most consistent practice would be to wear Boy Scoutings red shoulder loops rather than Venturings green ones. With the permission of the Council Executive, an experiment utilizing this uniforming practice has been shown to be highly successful. Enhanced recognition Interest in Scouting advancement and rank among Venture Patrol members will vary greatly. Some will be Eagle Scouts looking for additional challenges. Some will want to complete their efforts to earn an Eagle Scout Award. Others will no longer be interested in advancement. All of these needs can be accommodated simultaneously with a modest modification. A focus on high adventure activity should provide ample activity to anyone not interested in rank advancement and plenty of opportunity to anyone wishing to accomplish rank advancement to do so. However, those looking for additional challenges and awards will be short-changed. The recognitions available through Venturing are not available to them unless they join a Venturing Crew. Little merit is seen in this restriction. Since the majority of the experiences they will enjoy as members of a Venture Patrol will directly parallel those of a Venturing Crew, reason dictates that they be eligible to earn a limited amount of Venturing Awards. Rather that contribute to what could only become feelings of resentment by forcing them to repeat the same activities as Venturers later in order to be given the same recognition, allowance should be provided for members of a Venture Patrol to earn Venturing Bronze Awards. Dual Registration It is possible today to sidestep the need for either of these changes to the program by simply dual-registering the boy as a Scout and Venturer and gaining the permission of the local Council Executive wear the Venturing uniform as described. Scouting would be better served by publishing an enhanced definition of Venture Patrols as outlined in this document. What A Venture Patrol Can Really Be A Saving Patrol Combining all the aspects of what a Venture Patrol is and what it could be, the Venture Patrol becomes a powerful tool in skilled hands to keep boys in Scouting. Far beyond a simple high adventure group, the Venture Patrol can take on the mission of the Leadership Corps while functioning as something like an In Troop version of Venturing, ready and willing to serve the Troop and others. Whether the young men remain in the Troop or join a Crew, they are no less members of the Boy Scouts of America. The longer they remain members, whatever the unit, the more opportunities Scouters have to positively affect the lives of the young man and the greater the young mans ability to return service to others. This expanded use of the Venture Patrol contributes positively towards those goals. admin | IP: Logged spin-off new thread

Well, we may have tipped the same waitress!!! That hotel should have been named a zoo. Krystals, was what I was thinking of that sold the little greasy cheeseburgers. I was certain that I would never get away from Augusta, so I submitted request for transfer frequently, please send me to Germany or Korea or Germany or Korea and in front of 250 of my comrades, the CO announces, "SGT Trail Pounder, your wish has come true, your outta here, your going to.........Alaska!" All 250 people started laughing. But, ha! The joke was on them. The Alaskan Army was the best kept secret in the military. What a great two years that was. We trained in the cold weather. We had all the right gear to stay warm. But the 4 months of good weather, we got in a nice softball season, salmon and trout fishing, hunting, weekend-long daylight picnics, trips to Denali. Our CO pitched for our softball team and our 6'5" 1SG played, of course, first base. The XO played left field. So after our 1 pm work formation, we'd go back to work and then have softball practice from 2-4:30, then get back into uniform for the 5:00 pm formation. Learned never never slide into second base on permafrost. I still have the scars.

Uncle, I'll bring it up at our next Quarterdeck Meeting. P

Pack, just to cure your concerns, those students that get through BCT and AIT somehow, working the angles, are very obvious when they get to their line units. Many of them are in for a rude awakening, they slipped and slid through the revolving door of initial training, but in the units, a slacker is found out oh so fast and is either motivated to get with it, both by their NCOs or with the help of the squad, or he/she is gone, sent home. It took me about a week as a squad leader to really get a feel for a non-hacker. Which of my teams could I place them with, where they could do a job, if the person was really bad, we'd just start writing papers until the officers acted on it. If someone refused to do their job and tried to work the angles as you said, we'd just tell them to report every morning to the 1SG, and he sent them to either guard duty or KP. They weren't around long, let's just say.

So Pack you were one of my instructors at Ft. Gordon back in the day? Brrrrrrrrrruuughhhhh. Brings back some memories. I was there in 81-83. The worst memory was that Continental Canning Corp. just down the road out gate 5, every morning, the worst funky smell my poor nose ever suffered through (almost). There was a dive out gate 5 also, The Tap House, whew, what a dive, what a great little dump!!! Friendliest people I can remember. I had basic in Brehm's Barracks on the other side of the PX and movie theatre. Then AIT down in the middle of the brick city, 31M/31N area. Spent the next 18 months in the 385th Sig Co and 67th Sig Bn, taking the SOBC students out for their end of course FTX. Crawled around in a lot of that red Georgia clay. What was the name of the burger joint down South that sells the little sliders like White Castles? They stayed open late and we sure ate a lot of those 2 a.m. post-Broad St. sliders!!! I went from Georgia to Alaska in December. That was sure rude of them.

Bush is in a mess? How 'bout those free elections in Afghanistan? Leading in the polls. I don't just have one Bush/Cheney 2004 signs in my yards, I have two. My in-laws got one also, whether they wanted it or not!!! Good job, Mr. President!!!

Let me throw in this, Saddam was a loose cannon, who had already invaded his neighbor and threatened the Saudi Oil Fields, which is a threat to our national interests. I remember reading that when the older Soviet Generals witnessed our capabilites in 90-91, they all renewed their Orthodox faith, thanking God that they were not in the lead T-72 coming down the Fulda Gap. Same goes for North Korea, Syria, and Iran....they saw what happened to one of the world's largest military forces. Iraq's went from sixth largest to seventy forth in 100 hours. They've been warned. How about those election in Afghanistan? Isn't that great!!! For those of you serving today....Hooah!!!

Uncle, We've went to square knots on our Sea Scout uniforms. Blue and white backgrounds. The patches don't go on the Sea Scout uniforms. They've got one more session and they'll have completed the Small Boat Handler Bar and that pins on nicely, similar to the Ranger bar in placement. I'm presenting my first Apprentice rank next month, with two getting very close. The Sea Scout Ranks: Apprentice, Ordinary, Able, are what go on the pocket. When a youth earns Quartermaster they then wear the same uniform as the adult leaders, with the Quartermaster being both his rank and office. Way cool. Would you agree that when we put a 21 year old out into society who has earned Eagle, Ranger, Silver, and Quartermaster, that young person will be just a great asset to our country? By next spring we should have our first two Sea Eagles. Has anyone ever heard of a Eagle Bridge of Honor done in pure Sea Scout atmosphere? OGE, I consider your advice like it was given to me from the burning bush itself!!! P

Oh!!! That's good stuff. I'm ready for spring already. I'm a novice. SA, my SC22 has a retractable keel which weighs approx 500 lbs. How does that compare to having a full keel such as yours? I'm just not sure about taking the SC22 out on Lake Michigan, unless it's a nice friendly day. We've made an agreement with another Sea Scout Ship to allow us to adopt their fourth boat, a Catalina 27' which is docked in a harbor on Lake Michigan. Between the 27' Cat and the SC22, we can get out on the water at the drop of a dime. I've never seen such an instant change in a kid as much as I have when you put a 15 year old in command of a boat with a crew waiting for orders and the wind blowing 15-17 mph. As soon as he took hold of the tiller his mouth was open in semi-terror at the task at hand, by the end of the day he was Cpt. Horatio Hornblower!!!! We also have a 1976 Chrysler Pirateer 13'. Now that thing is a hoot. I took her out myself on a smaller lake (it was big enough) and boy did she scoot. I had to get up high on the high side a few times to keep her from going over. I love this Sea Scouting stuff!!!

I saw a new member to Scouter.com going by the name "seascoutskipper." Sideboys post!!! Pipe the Side!!! Welcome aboard Sir!

What's next? Who knows? Everyday is different. I can understand you concern regarding our crew and my own lack of interest in OA. We're a Sea Scout Ship who sometimes wears the forest green shirts. We are not a troop. We can't hold OA elections, our female members can not be selected for OA. If our members can not join OA and they can not hold elections, OA hasn't even been mentioned in the two years I've been back. We don't even look at the OA dates when we do our calendar. The rest of your questions are getting goofy. Are you involved in Venturing? Or are you pretending to be an authority on the Venturing uniform?

"So back to my question, suppose someone joins that is active in the OA and wears his flap, are you going to chastise them?" To join, they would have to agree to live by the by-laws, which would include uniforming. If they had to wear their flap, there are other Crews besides ours in the area they could join.

nldscout, hold your breath and jump and down and then stomp your feet. The crew said no OA flaps so there's no OA flaps. Your bunch can do as they wish, our by-laws are our by-laws. If they included something over-the-top I would've stepped in, my job is to let them lead themselves as long as their leading themselves. The by-laws wouldn't be worth much too them if we didn't follow them. I thought it was a pretty stand-up act actually. They were rather adult and mature writing the by-laws. The OA boys have chosen sailing over conclaves every single time when given the choice, wonder why that is? Cub Scouts is a part of BSA, as is Sea Scouts, Venturing, and Varsity. OA is a Boy Scout troop member activity. Why are your undies in a bunch about this? Let the female Venturers and Sea Scouts become members and let the Crews, Ships, and Varsity Teams hold elections and it would be a different story.

I'm not going to chastise anybody. Our youth leadership, some Boy Scouts and some Venturing only, decided on the by-laws. Seeing that OA is a Boy Scout Society, those in both Boy Scouts can wear it on their tan Boy Scout shirt. It's not even on their radar. They're great kids, more adult than a lot of adults and not childish at all. It's just the way it is, and I support them.