LongHaul

NJCubScouter, Excellent questions! These are the things I wish they could cover in New Leader Training. Ya new learders need to know about paperwork and finance, and membership but knowing how other leaders solved their problems and tips on how to deliver program from people currently delivering program would benifit them more. First off let me explain our approach to supervising the PLC. The Committee must approve the calandar for the comming year or preferably comming 18 months. Permits and reservations take time and people need to get things on their calandar well in advance. The PLC must provide enough opportunities for the scouts working on Tendefoot thru First Class to achieve their rank requirements. If you have eight boys in a patrol you'll need eight campouts for each boy to (2nd. Class 2b.) select your patrol site (1st Class 4e.) serve as your patrol's cook . We have vetoed calandars that didn't address these needs. Campouts to places where activities precluded advancment must be limited to no more than two per twelve month period. The boys have a copy of the Guide to Safe Scouting and know what not to even ask about. If the PLC wants to schedual a 20 mile hike to allow boys to earn hiking merit badge it must take the place of one of the "fun" outings. We try to allow the boys to do anything that is not strictly forbidden as long as those seeking advancement have the opportunity

I see the system has censored my Bibical quote. Also the edit function still has bugs. The word in quotes is one word and the stars represent the "S" word. We are also a little messy(when not in the woods)

WAS A BEAR?? Being a Bear is like being a Marine..ain't no such thing as was. Bears in my neck of the woods tend to be noisy and irritating. It comes from being first. I mean just look in the Bible, the original Bible. What's the first word "Bere **** " We predate dates. The best thing I learned was the names and faces of my course mates. RESOURCES

I asked several times for a list of charities, companies and what have you, that have pulled funding over the athiest or gay debate. I feel National should let us know who these people are so we can show them our opinion by not buying their product. The civil rights movement got noticed after a bus boycot, aparthied fell to ecnomics. Gandi liberated India through economic resistance "Don't work, Don't buy"

SagerScout, The problem I percive in both your examples is not with the boy-led concept as much as with the poorly trained syndrom. Leaders train scouts, scouts train scouts and down the line. If the initial training was in adequate the boys are not to blame. If the boys are disrespectful then they are not living up to their OATH. A scout is Courteous. If the boys are not living up to these ideals then the Adult Leadeship is to blame because they are not supervising properly. Boy- led and patrol run is the cornerstone of this organization. I know of no other organization where a youth can get the experience in team work, and leadership that's available to them in Scouting when it's delivered right. Boys are workers, developers, planners and the most dificult directors. Directors must bring someone elses vision into reality using still someone elses hands. We give them a safe place to learn, fail, and grow.

Gray Fox, JLTC stands for Junior Leader Training Conference, it is a week long in depth training for junior leaders first class and above. It exposes them to the 11 Leadership skills and is run very much like Woodbadge. The boys I've sent have really improved their skills, come back all pumped up, and most important have a shared training experience with the other senior scouts in other troops. This provideds a continuity through out the council. It is run on a Council level. Troop level and District level Junior Leader Training is usually refered to as JLT and should be open to every scout.

The only reason I can think of to restrict attendence at a Klondike is the winter camping angle. If the Scoutmaster dosen't feel the newly crossed over webelos are experienced enough to safely camp in cold weather he might restrict it. We have had some really cold Klondikes where I'm at. For us this isn't a problem because the Klondike is held before the crossover.

I have to be carfull how I say this because I have over 25 years in myself. The initial post said that the problem was that the "meaningful" positions were taken some by people with 20 years experience, leaving the new parents feeling left out. Who should get "first dibs" on committee positions those with boys in the troop or those with 20 years experience? It's the boys troop but I find that sometimes adults refer to it as their troop and get very territorial when anyone mentions change. Having an experienced troop commiittee is a blessing but new blood is essential. What happens when the veterans finnaly decide to take a rest? If no one has been "trained" to fill the opening things will start to unravel. Ask the vets if they would consider mentoring the new parents. They may get a feeling for what the new parents are feeling now. Outside looking in

That's were we are now Bob. The DE and the Council Advancment Chair seem to think they have National's blessings on this, but can't provide any names for us to call. At present I have asked them to at least provide a written list of "Thier rules" so the Scoutmasters have something to work from while we find out what's what.

BoB That "If your council is following National Policy" is one big IF. My council is under the impresion it can do what ever it wants no mater what National policy especially when it comes to MeritBadge Counselors. They are limiting the number of Badges counseled teh number a boy "should" earn from any one counselor, telling us that a Scoutmaster should not counsel scouts in his/her own troop. The best is that the Council Advancment Committee has the option of "kicking back" a merit badge if they feel the boy didn't really earn it, even though the counselor was registered and approved when the card was signed. We are in the midst of hashing this out, I'll update as things progress.

Making them instructors, which is the job they seem to be doing, will solve the approved leadership position question for all ranks incuding Eagle

The OA chapter in my district run a Merit Badge Clinic each year, alternating between land and water formats. The classes are spread over six to eight weeks. Classes are held two consecutive Saturdays with two 1 hour sessions each day. Then a two to four week break for scouts to work on the requirements followed by two more consecutive Saturdays. We hold these in March and April but start promoting them in October so the boys intending to go for Personal Fitness, Personal Managment , Family LIfe and the others with long projects can contact the counselor in advance and complete the badge at the clinic. Still I've had angry parents caling me complaining that their son got a partial when he attended all the classes. As for class size we limit it to ten per counselor, we have had four or five counselors for Citizenships and a dozen when we do Lifesaving. Sometimes Clinics work well because the boys get to meet counselors and they know your face before they call you for some other badge later.

tdyer56, I have a red wool-jac I got from my Dad when I was inducted into the Arrow in 1963. He bought it big and I havn't grown much. Today I wear my original pocket flap and a large back patch commemorating the last fellowship our chapter had before it was broken into two chapters by the Council, in 1965. I have been told several times that they are both improper. My reply was to take out my folded pocket knife, extend it to the offened person on my open plam and ask them if they would like to try to cut them off. That said I AM WRONG!!! Bob has it on the money. Patches approved for the unifom jackets are specified in the Insignia publication. If you are going to put any old thing on your uniform jacket why not your uniform shirt? As for adults wearing youth rank that is a major Bozo No NO.(I hope everyone knows who Bozo was) Adults can't even wear the first class rank pin on their Smokey the Bear hats. We are after all role models whether we like it or not. In fact in my opinion if you don't like being a role model BSA is not for you. Leading by example is the only way. I have a long vest, looks like throw rug material, that I got at Philmont in '69' which I display my patches on, I wear the red wool jac sparingly because it's incorrect. If it looks like an official jacket treat it like an official jacket. If you buy something that looks close" intending to wear it with yoiu uniform, treat it like your uniform.

Actually, dperry3568, the Scoutmaster can recognize the position of partol quartermaster for both Star and Life ranks. They could fall under the approved Scoutmaster assigned leadership project heading. For Eagle, however, this is not an option.

Our district used this approach for a Klondike when the temperature was colder than usuall. We had the kids running around Friday night , Saturday, morning till about 8am. They hauled sleds and had laterns placed along the trail as beacons. The kids got a kick out of it and slept better because the temp was rising while they slept instead of falling. We had "breakfast around 2:30pm Judged the competitions and had our Closing campfire at 5Pm soon as it got dark. Everyone was home and warm by 9 Saturday evening.

Yes Bob,you are 100% correct, failier to learn is the result of failier to teach effectively. What we have done in our troop is to sit down with the senior patrol leader and go over each requirement from Scout to First Class and spell out in detail what the requirement means. These are written down and laminated. Each badge has a binder with the sheets in it and paper for comments. We have not altered these in six years except when the requiirements themselves have changed. It may be over kill but parents as well as boys have asked to see the books and everyone has been satisfied.

I came across another site with a format very much like this one and would like to access it again but my auto erase function deleted the address. I've tried for a week to retrieve it to no avail. Anybody have any site addresses for forums like this one?

I came across another site with a format very much like this one and would like to access it again but my auto erase function deleted the address. I've tried for a week to retrieve it to no avail. Anybody have any site addresses for forums like this one?

I agree with Sctmom. Parents are NOT allowed on any of the troop campouts. Parents are restricted to PARENTS NIGHT functions. Adults are always welcome anywhere anytime. The differece is I'm not your dad I'm your Scoutmaster. The adults I work with (after observing me handle the same problem differently at two seperate times largely because one instance involved my son) have made a rule that leaders don't correct thier own kid. If I see one of my sons "doing" or "not doing" I have to ask another leader youth or adult to deal with it. Over the years this has helped several boys reach beyond thier parents grasp and "figure it out" for themselves more than once.

Re: Making it a race. I don't think having individual scouts compete against one another is as productive as having patrol competition. A method I just learned (after low these many years) was to have each patrol make a car cutout from cardboard or heavy poster board. They then attach a piece of velcro to the back. The trainer has a long piece of felt marked off into lanes (horizontally) with graduations (vertically) every ten inches or so. After each skill is taught the boys have "X" seconds to answer three or four questions relating to the skill. How many points in the law. What a clove hitch is used for. What's first bleeding or breathing. Like that, and the cars are moved according to correct answers along the course. We have the instruction and then a quick question to gauge comprehention. This semmed to work really well for me when I did JLT with my guys because I was able to ask harder questions which required the boys to actually take notes which aids retention. Using this for "New Scouts " in relation to joining requirements I don't think so. If you read the wording cafully pretaining to AOL automatically insuring the "Scout" rake I think you will find it says "With the Scoutmasters approval" again this goes to quality control.

Bob, in reference to a boy's best being his standard what happens if no matter how hard he tries he can't whip a rope so that the whipping holds as it should. Do you sign him off for the effort and say he's done and there by allowed to sign off others? When it comes time for him to teach what does he teach, the skill or the skill as best as he can? Won't we eventually loss the "skill" if the standard is only the best you can do taught by someone who is teaching the best that he knows? (That doesn't read like it sounded in my head but I hope you understand my question)

I like that!

As a SM and the father of two boys with ADHD that take Ritilan I have had the pleasure of being told by an Illinois State Police officer that my carring the meds, even in the original container COULD land me in jail for possetion of a controlled substance. The fact that I am their father plays a big factor in avoiding problems but Ritilan is so controlled that "Being in possetion of it with out a perscription made out to you" could get you busted. Being an Adult at camp administering controilled substances to minors who are not your child, when you are not licensed by that state to administer controlled substances could get you in trouble also. That said, I have my parents write a note mirroring what the lable says and giving me, by name, express permission to administer this drug. (I also have them include an ASM) Then I throw caution to the wind on this. We record each instance on a sheet kept with the drugs, time, boys name and which of the two of us dispensed the med. Inhalers are kept by the boy. I feel that a doctor thinks the boy should take this medication and boys need to be supervised when health or saftey is an issue.

When having scouts sign off for ranks lower than theirs who does quality control? If you have several patrols or a large amount of new scouts, as in on reply, how do you insure that each boy is asked to meet the same standard? Yes, Bob, I know the requirements are in the handbook but who decides what tenderfoot requirement 4a. "Demonstrate how to whip and fuse the ends of a rope" actualy means? If the intent was just to do it wouldn't the requirement be "Whip and fuse the ends of a rope" period. Requirement 5. askes the boy to "Explain". How do you insure that Billy and Johnny both were asked to meet the same standard?

Chippewa29 wrote, concerning Totin' Chip, that an ASM had been teaching the skill. No one jumped on the "the boys should be doing the teaching" soap box. My questions are 1. When it's saftey related such as totin' chip, fireman chit, or stoves and lanterns should an adult present the material or should it be boys only? 2. Who signs off for advancement boys or leaders? I would like to know some opinions and approaches to these issues.