LongHaul

pinkflame, Welcome to the forum. I am a little confused as to the duties and responsibilities of a Merit Badge Coordinator but am most concerned with your statement >>That has not been done before in the troop, just the SM or an ASM has signed off when the boy brings in his completions.<<. Are you saying that the practice has been that the SM or ASM has signed off in place of a MBC? Which Council is this? In Chicago if a registered MBC doesn''t sign off there will be problems if this boy applies for Eagle. LongHaul

Merlyn, As you say the incorporation debate came with the 14th Amendment but if Madison wanted the First amendment to cover the States as well as Congress why didn't he write it to say that? Why is "Congress" repeatedly used to referee to the newly organized two house legislative branch and "States" used when the reference is to the individual States? Madison was a Federalist, he wanted a powerful central government yet the Bill of Rights is aimed at limiting that strong central government in very specific areas while allowing the individual states the right to govern within their respective areas. LongHaul(This message has been edited by LongHaul)

Merlyn writes >>Judges know that the phrase "separation of church and state" does not occur in the constitution, but they also know that the first amendment is not limited to forbidding a national church. If it was meant to only prohibit the formation of a national church, it would have said that. It doesnt.

Yes it is just a matter of filling out the form and getting it approved by your council. The point is I''m proud of my Scouting connection and wear mine on my suit coat. Many people wear fraternal pins on civilian dress wear many don''t. LongHaul

Trev, Been through this several times. The reality of the situation is the boundary lines may change but the actual location of the units remains the same. The same unit which was most desirable before remains the most desirable now. The boys tend to remain in the program longer if they are where they want to be. Do not let bureaucracy stand in the way of delivering the best program to the youth you serve. LongHaul

For those who may have forgotten Varsity Scout Teams http://usscouts.org/advance/docs/vvvtable.asp LongHaul

kb6jra, So if I read you correctly current events is not a topic for class discussion. No matter what you try to discuss, from the current election campaigns to the Feds cutting the prime rate you will have opposing views and therefore bias as you put it. As has been noted these children are the ages of our younger scouts, we not only encourage them to form opinions about political topics we encourage it and Citizenship in the Nation asks that they voice their opinion in writing. I don''t think anyone disagrees that this teacher handled the assignment poorly and as Hunt pointed out the fact that some parents signed the letter without reading it is alarming. How do we educate without exposure to what is taking place around us? IMO If a parent disagrees with the political views of a teacher they should have that discussion with their child not seek to insulate their child from opposing views. LongHaul

kb6jra, If your middle schooler came home telling you that their teacher held a discussion about how it was necessary for the US Powers to detain those suspected of terrorist activities and that the use of extreme measusres was justified because of the iminent threat to our country would you still be calling for his head? LongHaul

>>How does the politics of Guantanamo Bay become US History?

The article I was looking at used pictures (I think) to help the Tiger remember the words. Index cards are good for the parents but the kids still can''t read the index cards and have a lot of stuff to memorize. Some can do it easily but some need help. LongHaul

Some where I briefly read a discussion about tips on helping Non Reader Tiger Cubs to earn Bob Cat Badge. Now that I need the info I can''t find it. Any one have a clue? LongHaul

I'll post this here again just incase some missed it. http://www.trailsend.com/TEPublic/docs/NoDiacetyl.pdf (This message has been edited by LongHaul)

standerson, I say please hold your ground as a service to the youth. The boys don't need Mr & Mrs CM playing King of the Hill with their program. Bullies will bully until they are stopped. As for the popcorn; http://www.trails- end.com/TEPublic /docs/NoDiacetyl .pdf LongHaul

50 in a 30 zone is based on real evidence not "subjective interpretation". Everyone that was not in a stall in that airport could have been arrested for peeping unless the had their eyes glued on the ceiling or floor and could prove it. If someone is stalking you with the intent of doing you bodily harm the law must wait till a crime has been committed before they can act if their intent is consensual sex all we need is desire? I am opposed to what Craig did but I am more opposed at how it was handled by those in a position to uphold the law. LongHaul

Ed, This whole interaction between us started over "the numbers" or have you forgotten? LongHaul

Ed, I have no intention of tackling SOX if I can't even seem to explain the numbers aspect. You keep demanding proof of something that is not in dispute. The numbers are fine it's how they are being applied that is problem. LongHaul

GaHillBilly, >>However, the arms back - chest arched position is (in my opinion) relatively useless, for very simple reasons. The avowed BSA rationale for teaching (and requiring) floating is to provide a self-rescue rest position.<< Could you expound a bit on the very simple reasons? Having used this technique since 1967 when it was reveled to me at National Camp School I've had great success personally and with the boys I've counseled. As for not being able to swim on one's back in open water I wonder why you limit your dissatisfaction to floating. Ever try and do the elementary back stroke in the ocean? Breast stroke doesn't work very well either unless you can time the swells. Should we just revamp the entire swimmers test? I'm serious, do you think we should revamp the swimmers test to eliminate floating or the rest strokes? LongHaul

Beavah, With all the posts you've made about involving the SE, DE, DD all the posts you've made about what National really means when they say.... how can you say they have NO checks and balances, oversight or involvement? Why all the posts about Eagle apps if it's all handled in house? Why all the talk about letters of expulsion. Please defend the system all you want but recognize that at times National, Regional, Council are duplicitous. Comparing LFL and traditional units as being "youth served" on the same plane is ludicrous. LongHaul

Ed, I'm sorry that you can seem to understand what I'm trying to say. If you read my last post and have to ask if I have proof that the numbers are wrong then I'm sorry I can't explain it to you. I can ask if you ever took a class or studied statistics? LongHaul

Ed, What about the part two of my example? The one where they serve 25,000 LFL youth and those 25,000 served youth have no need for a summer camp so they can justify selling it. The fact that "served" when referring to LFL means that BSA receives a per student fee for leasing the LFL material to a school for use. BSA has no direct involvement, checks and balance, or oversight of delivered program. Considering those 25,000 as "youth served" when considering whether traditional BSA programing is cost effective IMO is a perfect example of what Merlyn was talking about. Trust me Ed, we'd nail these #@&*% to the wall under the Sarbanes-Oxley Act but National has told "us" that if we take the board to back court again National will dissolve the council. LongHaul (This message has been edited by LongHaul)

GaHillBilly, I too WAS:) a competitive swimmer with very little body fat. I learned a useful technique; extend the arms straight back over the head while floating on the back. This causes the back to arch and whileI still could only face float I could continue this for 30 minutes, the requirement back in the 60's for some level of aquatic instructor. While you may be body fat poor the vast majority of your scouts will not be. They lack the ability to relax and focus while in the water. As a Swimming and Lifesaving merit badge counselor I suggest you refrain from viewing the floating requirement lightly. Another technique in teaching a person to float is to take the troubled boy into water about 18 to 24 inches deep. Have them lay on their back, bend the leg at the knee and with the foot flat on the ground arms extended back over the head try and get the upper body to float. Because they do not fear drowning in 18 inches of water and the feet keep the legs from pulling the body down they should be able to relax andkeep the upper torso afloat. This will determine if a float is possible in deeper water if relaxed. If they sink with the feet on the ground AND their physical appearance suggests very low body fat then I'd accept a deed man float(drown proofing) PROVIDED THEIR SWIMMING PORTION DEMONSTRATED STRONG PURPOSEFUL TECHNIQUE. LongHaul(This message has been edited by LongHaul)

Now I'm siding with Merlyn, what next? Yes Ed I have proof. In Chicago the powers that be continually solicit public funds for "Scouting" use pictures of our Summer camp and the boys engaged in activities there and then use the money collected to support LFL to the exclusion of traditional scouting. They continually claim that because CAC serves 35,000+ youth and only 10,000- are traditional units we don't need our Council Camps and they sold one for 17 million and are fighting efforts to stop the sale of the one remaining camp for 19 million. Their claim on how many youth are served depends on what they want the argument to support. We serve 35,000+ so our SE makes more than the Mayor but we serve less than 10,000 so we don't need camps, field services, or program resources. LongHaul

Calico, First, you bet Im calling the cops IF THE GUY IS AN ADULT. How about if it was another scout? Billy comes up to you and says Tommy was doing this and that Billy thought it was strange enough to report. Do you call the cops on Tommy? Has the crime become different? How about if youre a Venturing Leader and youre taking both males and females up to camp. Two of your female scouts come up to you and report that while in the food court a guy, their same age, came up to them and asked them if they wanted to accompany him to his home for a sexual encounter. Do you call the police? Would you stick around to file charges and show up in court? Would you actually expect a conviction? The officer says he was in the stall 5 minutes before Craig entered the bathroom. Sitting on the can with his pants around his ankles? Craig reportedly looked at the officer through the crack in the door. Did Craig observe a man sitting in the stall still buckled and zipped? Craig was arrested for committing actions not acts what did the officers actions convey? If I am using a public rest room and you touch my foot with your foot from the next stall you gotta be laying on the floor! Unless of course you have a joint about half way up your calf. I want to how they wrote a law that says flashing hand signs and playing footsees is a crime. LongHaul

>>"All things are toxic...it's the dose that determines which are poisons."

Can you say required uniforming? I was required to have my region patches on my uniform as were the boys we sent to the 2005 National Jamboree. Again I don't dispute your information per the insignia guide I just wonder why everyone I personally know that attended these Jamborees was told to wear the region patch as part of their official uniform while traveling to and from or participating in the event. As I said my exsperience was back in the 60's seems someone would have caught the error by 2005. Just looked at the shirt a friend wore to the World Jamboree earlier this month and the patch she was issued also says Central Region in gold but these were worn in the position of the Council Patch. LongHaul