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Ditto OGE file an ammended Advancement Report. The dates of First Class,Star and Life BOR's submitted on Eagle application are checked by Council and or District Advancement Committee. Its much easier to fix this oversight now than waiting until its found on Eagle application somewhere down the road.

Scouters training award medal is cat# 00922 Scoutmasters Key/Varsity Scout Coach is cat # 00924 Cat #'s can be found in Insigna Guide. District supplied knot and certificate. Troop purchases the medal for the Leaders who earn the award. fgoodwin,last time troop purchased this medal was May 2004 if that helps you.

Dave you finally woke up,that was a heck of a nap you took. BTW welcome back. Its nice to see your smiling face again.

oldsm, yes you are correct no Adult application. It's a form letter that you have to sign and return to Council. The letter I received last year also asked for date of YPT. Our Council has its own MBC application which is a combination of BSA's Adult and MBC application's which you complete once.

Our Council sends a letter to MBC's once a year. It askes if there are any changes to your address or phone # and whether you want to add or delete any badges. If you do not respond to the lettter by its due date the MBC is dropped from Council MBC list. Council maintains and posts MBC listing on their website.

OGE, you win. That is the perfect summer camp.

We used Stadri for our 10th Anniv neckerchief and for our troop numerals. They were very helpful in chosing thread colors as neckerchief was custom embroidery. We are very satisfied with their work.

Congratulations to OJ and also to you E. You are so correct it is their goal to accomplish. As OJ pointed out sometimes we parents and leaders push to hard and turn the scouts off for awhile.

You really can't compare the United States with Canada. Canada has official languages, Quebec province's official language is French and English is the official language in all the other Provinces. O Canada would be sung in French in Quebec and not in english. Am all in favor of immigrants retaining their heritage but not to the extent that they never learn English. Am second generation American, when Dad started school he barely spoke English as Greek was the language used at home.

It is unfortunate that Mom sees the destination rather than the journey. There is more to Scouting than just advancement. Paths taken and things learned can be more fulfilling than ranks and merit badges earned. "We finalized the steps to adjust rank requirements." I hope that in your discussions someone has been deligated to contact your Council's Advancement Committee Chair. They do need to be contacted to find out exactly what your Council's proceedures are in obtaining alternate requirements. They will also have an idea of how long the process takes. A time frame may be 3-6 months before final approval. The good news is once approved the Scout's tenure should be extended beyond the age of 18. As already stated only the Council advancement committee can approve the requirement changes. The scout should not complete any of the proposed alternate requirements until you have received final Council approval.

Yes, the questions are supposed to be open ended as Lisa'bob pointed out. I did not feel it was necessary to repeate what she said in her excellent post. "If the board of review is for rank advancement, the board will satisfy itself that the Scout has done what he was supposed to do for that rank and will review with the Scout the requirements for the next rank. The board of review is also a way of reviewing the troop's progress." BSA supplemental training module,board of review training. The basic premise of "learned and completed"are the same as "has done what he was supposed to do" The idea of a BOR is to find out what was done by the scout to fulfill the requirements and were theycompleted. "This can be accomplished by simple questions like "What did you cook for your First Class meal?" Questions like Where and When or How will soon tell the board whether achievements were properly accomplished without actually retesting. It is sufficient to know what a Scout's "camp gadget" was in order to understand whether he had been properly tested on his lashings."BSA supplemental training module,board of review training. The use of what,why and how questions is what I was taught when I was trained as a member of council's EBOR committee many years ago. It seems that they are just as appropriate today as they were back then. The "camp gadget" question has been used for years in the Troop I serve, though it is nice seeing it in the training module. As you pointed out how they are worded is very important."HOW do we treat for exposure to poisonous plants?" (TF 11) / Why did you learn about poisonous plants? How a question is worded does effect its purpose. Retest or inquiry.

SWScouter, I was quoting from the Eighth Edition, First printing June 1972 pages 74-75. Tenderfoot,Second Class,First Class,Star,Life, and Eagle were not called Ranks but progress awards (pg 74). I apologize for not stating my scouce. The whole program of Boy Power and urban scouting was culture shock when I got reinvolved in Scouting in 1974 during college, after earning Eagle and aging out in 1971. They were interesting times but that was to be expected with a Handbook not written by Bill Hillcourt. LongHaul,asking a Scout what,why,how questions is not in my opinion a retesting, but a way of determining if requirements were met. Asking what camp gadget a Scout made is not retesting it determines if the requirement was fulfilled. Same goes with asking what requirement was his hardest or easiest.

Karent welcome to the campfire. What you are looking for is: A Guide to working with Boy Scouts with Disabilities BSA pub #33056c I have the 2004 printing Application for alternate Eagle required merit Badges : http://www.scouting.org/forms/58-730.pdf What you are looking for can be found on page 2 of the application. It states: "This does not apply to individual requirements for merit babges.Merit badges are awarded only when all requirements are met as stated".

OGE, there was a time when youth did handle the advancement proceedures for Tenderfoot, Second Class and First Class. It started with the Eighth Edition of the Handbook in June 1972. It continued through the Ninth Edition of the Handbook. The Tenth Edition in Jan 1990 changed it to what we have today. BOR's done by Troop Committee. They were not called BOR's but Progress Reviews and were done by the Troop Leaders Council and which may have had a Committee Member sitting in as an adviser. "Maybe the Dug Nevius form of scouting isnt as "Twisted" as previously thought." Dug, though the Troop Leader Council and Patrol Leader Council are similar in composition their training and responsibilities were vastly different. IMHO staying with something that is 16 years out of date is "twisted".

John-in-KC: Yes I do remember, Wolf-Bear-Lion-Scout. I earned my Lion in 1963-1964. Tho my Cub shirt is long gone. I Did save all the cub rank patches and arrow points I earned.

Somethings to look at are: Who is chosing the activity? Is it a few scouts or adults who decide what to do. Who choses where the activity is? It could be the scouts are bored with going to the same place all the time. Are the dates of activities being checked against school calendar for conflicts with school activities? This is a concern in the Troop I serve in. Middle school has a few activities that take place on weekends. We also have atleast 4 Scouts every year who are HS band members. In 12 years only once was the SPL not a band member. Are camping trips so organized that there is no fun/down time for the boys to be boys? Or worse they are so disorganized that the Scouts are left up to their device to keep themselves occupied. Someone needs to ask the Scouts who are not going on activities why they are not going. From those answers or reasons can you find out what the problems are. You need to know from the Scouts what the problems are with activities before you can fix anything. Boys do not always think like adults. What they see as a problem might not seem to be a problem to an adult.

Multiple palms can be earned. The Insignia Guide does explain how multiple palms are worn. As John-in-KC said the only limit is the Scouts 18th birthday. And the 3 months tenure from last palm earned. This also may be helpful. http://www.meritbadge.com/adv/palms.htm

CNYScouter,to answer your questions paintball is a violation of G2SS and redesigning the uniform is violating National Policy. And any responsible Scout leader would have to step in and say no to them. But we are not talking about violating G2SS or rewriting National Policy. We are talking about patrols and patrol method. How can a patrol of 2 scouts develop leadership or demonstrate patrol method? When you combine patrols you're sending a message that patrols are not important. Are you or are you giving them the opportunity to practice leadership and the patrol method? What message is a SM sending when he says either you go as a patrol of 2 or don't bother going to the klondike. How are the Aims and Methods being fulfilled? Why would a Scout leader force Scouts into a task that is next to impossible to accomplish? Have you ever tried or watched 2 scouts pull a loaded klondike sled? One of the tasks in a klondike is getting the sled from station to station. How many Scouts do you think it takes to move a loaded sled through mud, snow or what ever else may be on the ground at that time? So what you are saying is that strict patrols have to be followed no matter what. Even if the tasks involved is impossible to acomplish and the Scouts may be doomed for failure with 2-4 Scouts involved? Scouts are not that naive,they will put up being in very small patrols on outings for only so long. What happens to the patrol method when Scouts stop going on outings because they do not want to be in a patrol of 2 or 3 on an outing? Or even worse they leave your Troop. Without Scouts you have no patrol, and without patrols you have no Troop. What I am saying that in certain situations and circumstances a "virtual patrol" is a viable solution. If the Scouts decide to combine 7 Scouts from 3 patrols in order not to cancel an outing, then yes I would approve it. They still would have to have a PL and APL. I would rather have 7 Scouts practicing the patrol method than cancelling the outing and having none. Sorry I can not accept following the patrol method blindly. As a Leader I can not put Scouts in a situation that sets them up for failure or limits their performance from the start. Or creates a situation where the amount work involved to perform tasks is excessive given the amount of Scouts participating. Why as Scout leaders would we create burdens like this for our Scouts? What message are you sending the Scouts when Leaders do things like this? To borrow something William Hillcourt wrote. A Troop is not divided into patrols. A Troop is the sum total of its patrols.

Yes,CNYScouter a SM sould use directing, coaching, supporting, and delegating styles of leading. But in your scenario I can only see coaching being used and the others not at all. In many of your posts CNYScouter you have complained about not finding boy led Troops in your area. Yet in the scenario you wrote you demonstrated an adult led unit. Which I do not understand why. Two Scouts is really not a patrol and they can not effectively demonstrate the Patrol Method. While you may have Scouts who would go on an outing with only 2 members and talk up what fun they had. The opposite may also take place and they may complain on how much work it was. Scouts are not naive enough not to realize how much work and effort is involved when you only have 2 to share that work. And there may come a time when an outing is cancelled cause you have 8 boys from 4 patrols going and that they decide not to go as 4 patrols of 2 considering the amount of work and effort involved. Many Boy Scout publications state that minimum size of a patrol is 4-5 scouts in order to function as a patrol. It may be that the boys have been trained and did learn that to effectively demonstrate Patrol Method you need more than 2 scouts. A "virtual patrol" is not an ideal patrol but it can function as one. And give the Scouts an opportunity to practice the Patrol Method. It comes down to the who and why they were formed. If the Scouts or PLC decide to create a patrol this way and it was done for the right reasons ie not cancel an outing or to divide work on a more even basis. Then why not,it is the boys Troop to run. They are trying to follow Scouting Methods within the resources that they have available at that time. A Scoutmasters job is not to run his Troop but to train boy leaders to run their Troop. As Baden-Powell says, "To get the best results, you must give the leader real, free-handed responsibility. If you only give partial responsibility, you will get partial results." Aren't we as Scouters supposed to: Train em, Trust em, Let em Lead! The statement about what a patrol may be is an excerpt from the Third Handbook for Scoutmasters, Twelfth printing March 1945, Vol 1, page 162. Which William Hillcourt wrote. And is referenced in one of the web sites you mentioned. The statement about what the Patrol Method may be also comes from a Scoutmasters Handbook. Sixth Edition, First printing 1972, page 144. Which also was the Edition of the Scoutmasters Handbook in current use when I was first trained as a SM in 1977. Yes, I said first trained as I do not believe in "trained once for life". Any time that training has been changed for the position I served in I have taken that training again. I am very well aware of William Hillcourt and his writings concerning patrols and Patrol Method. He wrote both the Boy Scout handbook and the Patrol Leaders Handbook I used as a Scout in the 60's. I do believe that there are things in older Boy Scout publications that are just as appropriate today as when they were written 20-60 years ago. If you do not learn from history you tend to repeat it.

A different question is what are we teaching in your scenario CNYScouter, boy led or adult led? What Aims or Methods of Scouting are being ignored while maintaining one Method? PL3: I have an idea. Why dont we combine patrols 3 and 4? This way we will have a better chance at winning. What are the Scouts showing with this idea? Decision making,leadership,working to a common goal? To an adult their reason of winning may be flawed but to them it may make sense. SM: Hey guys wait a minute. We do things by patrols. So, the combining of patrols is out. But, if you want to compete you will have to use whoever in your patrol is going. The SM is telling the Scouts what to do and how it must be done. What is the SM telling the Scouts with this? Scouts opinions,decision are invalid? Could he be questioning their leadership,initiative,resourcefulness and character? SM: The sign of a good leader is getting people to do things. Perhaps, you should call up your patrol members and see if you can get more of them to go. Or maybe instead of competing you could participant by running one of the stations. Here the SM is offering suggestions or alternatives that the Scouts may not have thought of. The SM is offering options in the decision making. Question becomes what is a Patrol? Is it a group of Scouts working together under the leadership of one of its members? Last question. What is patrol method? Could it be the way a patrols function determines the method, not the way they're organized or created?

There is a difference between a VAT and Sales Tax. VAT or Value Added Tax applies to items that become something else during processing or manufacture. Sales Tax can be applied to both goods and services. Gern,you are correct that the VAT is collected at each transaction it applies to. VAT is a pass through Tax and the final consumer would pay all accumulated VAT. The question with a VAT becomes what becomes exempt- food items,clothing. The more you exempt the higher the VAT rate becomes. Final selling price has very little to do if anything with the VAT tax collected. VAT by itself can never replace the Income Tax the rate would be so high everyone would be begging to have an Income Tax. Same things apply to a National Sales Tax. Look at how many States have both a Sales and Income Tax. There are States that the Sales Tax came first and the Income Tax was added on later. England for example has both a VAT and an Income Tax. Part of the problem lays with politicians once they have a tax they are reluctant to remove that source of funds for something else. Perfect example is the Federal Tax on phone bills. It was created during the Johnson administration to help fund the Viet Nam war. Its still alive and kicking 33 yrs after it ended.

Kaji, As scoutldr and Kahuna have said no AOL knot and flags were not worn in the 60's. I did some checking in old Boy Scout Handbooks that I own. The earliest reference that I have to a flag being worn on a uniform is the inside back cover of the Boy Scout Handbook Seventh Edition Seventh Printing,January 1971. That template shows it in the current position on the right sleeve. The next oldest Handbook I have is the one I used as a Scout which is Sixth Edition Sixth Printing,January 1964. Where there are no uniform flags.

This is not something I would recommend as an accountant in NJ for your unit. As Kahuna said a unit can not be incorporated, you would have to create your own 501©(3) corporation. You would need to file IRS form 1023 for tax exempt status,the form is 28 pages. Filing fee for the form for reciepts of less than $10k is $150 increasing to $300 on July 1,2006. If receipts are greater than $10K the fee is $500 increasing to $750 on July 1,2006. Unit books are included in the corps books for IRS filing. Receipts includes all monies that pass through your checkbook. Even if the IRS grants tax exempt status you would then need to file for tax exempt status with the State of NJ as Fed tax exemption does not mean automatic state exemption. NJ requires corporations to carry workmans compensation including tax exempt/non profit on all corporate officers whether or not they recieve any compensation. The costs of maintaining a tax exempt corporation may be a few hundred dollars per year. As others have said BSA does provide liability insurance to leaders in case they are named in a lawsuit. Personally its just not worth going through the work and costs involved.

The Twin Towers falling is an emotional event in my area of northern New Jersey. The NYC skyline is visible from within the town I grew up in. It is not unusual for either yourself or someone you know to have lost a relative, friend or a neighbor in the Twin Towers attack. Just driving around in my town and seeing the hole in the sky where the Twin Towers stood is very emotional for me. It is my reminder of what happened and that I lost my best friend of 35 years that day. Do I like seeing the Towers falling or that hole in the NYC sky, no not really. I have to agree that others may need reminding of what happened that tragic day. We as a nation should never forget what happened that day and if showing the Twin Towers falling accomplishes that then by all means show it.

BSA National had 3 offices in NYC. First was in the YMCA on 28th Street. Then 200 5th Ave. Sometime in the 30's they moved to 2 Park Ave. In 1953 National moved to North Brunswick,NJ. I do not remember the exact reason for the move to Irving in 1979.