Liz

swilliams - I'd be concerned about the bear that you couldn't scare away. Not so much the ones that don't come close enough to the house to get the dogs barking. Those ones have a little wariness. We have bear around here too, but I never see them. Occasionally we'll see scat or footprints or once or twice a year a neighbor will catch a photo. I don't let my kids go outside at night without an adult and I teach them never to approach ANY wild animal, but especially a bear or cougar (those are our predators) or of course a rattlesnake, but I also teach them not to be afraid; just follow the safety rules. Also, keeping the bears wary of hanging out around the house is why we keep large dogs. In 43 years of living here, I don't think I've ever seen a bear although I *might* have seen the tail end of one disappearing into the bushes once while driving down the road, and my mother has seen a bear exactly once. I've never seen a cougar and I've only seen one rattlesnake (when I was about 3). Deer around here are as acclimated as you describe your bears to be. They'll come up on my porch to eat my container garden (I won't even TRY to keep a regular garden). But you can still scare them away if you try. They won't just stand there and let you walk up to them and grab them. Some of them will let you get within 5 or 10 yards though, if you approach slowly. Run at them and yell and they'll bolt... except once in a while one won't. We had a doe here when I was a kid who would chase dogs and people.

That is really concerning to me. Once a bear has lost its fear of people the next step is someone getting hurt. Glad it's only a black bear, but that's enough. I'd be removing it if I were in charge of that camp.

Man, I'm so sorry for my oversimplified pass/fail comment. 😂 I was only intending to refer to what mrkstvns posted above about it not being an examination or a re-test. We have come *really close* one time to asking a Scout to come back and try his BOR again on another day when he was more ready. The Scout was having a really hard day and was frankly being downright belligerent (something that was a regular challenge with this Scout due to some special behavioral/developmental needs). When we told him we were going to stop the BOR and revisit in the future, he begged us to reconsider, we started over, and the Scout mustered all the self control he could to get through it without snarky, snide commentary on our questions. So yes, there are circumstances when a Scout may not "successfully complete" his BOR, but that doesn't mean that the questions we ask should be like exam questions that he has to pass.

When I was a child, one of the older kids at my church drowned on a church youth trip. That would have been around 1980-ish. Nobody even noticed he was missing until it was time to load up the bus and go home. They had to send divers out to recover the body. I will never forget that boy's memorial service and the impact it had on his family and on our church community. So this is not something I will ever skimp on.

Yes. Another fact is hits home for me as the parent of an Autistic Webelos Scout is that autistic children are at a much higher (not sure the numbers) risk of death by drowning than kids in the general population. And the way my daughter has always been drawn to water and tends to overestimate her ability level, I am super vigilant. Her class had a pool party last week and I was really stressing about having to be at work and not there to supervise her. Then I remembered in her IEP she is required to have a staff member assigned to watch her specifically during all "unstructured" time (due to her yet to emerge skill to recognize and protect herself from bullying by her peers, which has left her with several injuries). My husband was able to convince the principal to assign an instructional assistant to watch her in the pool, since I figured the buddy system wasn't going to be enforced and I was afraid a peer might dare her to take a risk she wasn't ready for. She does know how to swim, and can pass the typical public pool deep water test, but I don't think she'd pass the "Swimmer" level test quite yet. I've been working closely with Safe Kids USA for the last 8 years and am painfully aware of how big the risk is around water. The reason we're selecting this particular location is so we can practice the skills in an unusually safe environment for "open water" - but we'll follow all the precautions assigning a rescue person and lookouts and buddy checks and no distractions for the adults assigned to these tasks. It will be good practice for the kids AND the adults. And I recently renewed my CPR certification for kids and adults, but again the water is so shallow it would pretty much take something like a medical emergency in the water (like a seizure or something) to put a child at real risk for drowning. But... you never know! Best to be prepared!

That is great for you as a Lutheran. But that isn’t how all religions define Duty to God. Unitarians, Buddhists, Quakers, and many others don’t always adhere to a “supreme supernatural being” view of God and that spiritual duty may take on other forms. See: https://www.uua.org/children/scouting/memorandum-understanding The Scoutmaster Conference and the unit Board is Review are not pass/fail. I would have also signed off, but counciled the youth that if he or she ever makes it to an Eagle board of review it would be prudent to have a better answer explaining how the youth’s beliefs and practices fulfil the spirit of BSA’s “Duty to God” requirements. The smaller rank advancements present an opportunity for the youth to reflect on his or her Duty to God and learn to articulate it, even in the context of being an agnostic. Passing it off as “I’m an agnostic” is missing the opportunity.

I intend to enforce this even if the water is less than knee deep anyway. Like you said, it’s good practice for the boys *and girls*. Not just for Scouts BSA but for life. Everyone of every age and ability should swim with a buddy.

Good. I'm glad I was interpreting that correctly. I'll go ahead of time to make sure the conditions of the splash area are the same as they were last time I visited (there can be seasonal differences) but I feel confident with a team of rescue/lookout adults with the type of water activity we are planning. I work extensively with Safe Kids USA and have a very cautious view of water activities in general. I won't be taking unnecessary risks; I just want to ensure the kids are also able to have fun.

Just took the BSA SSD course. It looks like the "rescuer" is allowed to be an adult or older youth who has earned the Lifesaving Merit Badge. Is that correct? In this situation, if the water area is a little deeper than just knee high, but still appropriate for non-swimmers (or we can section off an area that is) and I bring one of my young adult kids who earned the Lifesaving Merit Badge when they were youth, am I correct that this would satisfy the requirements (in addition to 2 SSD and CPR trained adults as lookouts)? Or should I just make sure if any part of the water is more than knee-deep we section off a wading area and don't let the kids past it?

I'm a passable swimmer. I'm not sure I'd be able to pass the Lifeguard course but what can it hurt to try? Last year at Cub camp they had the waterfront closed but I may have a chance to go with a Scouts BSA Troop this summer (we're just getting our paperwork gathered for a female troop!) so why not give it a whirl?

Yeah, common sense tells me that if an adult can literally run to a child and pick it up out of the water, without needing any swimming skills whatsoever, a lifeguard is unnecessary when you've got at least 3 or 4 adults who are certified in CPR present and you can assign one or more of them to have eyes trained on the kids at all times. But at the same time I want to follow all of BSA's applicable rules. We do have other Safe Swim Defense trained leaders, and I will be too before we go, I was just getting impatient at not being able to find the info in the G2SS. I appreciate those that found it for me.

Thank you! Yes, I'm going to take the training, I just haven't had time yet. Today was my last day of work for the school year though so I'll probably get it done this weekend. So knee deep for the shortest Scout is the benchmark. Perfect. I will go out on a personal recognizance mission and check for myself what the deepest part of the splashing area is. The water, while definitely not stagnant, is flowing so gently in that area that it's more pool-like than stream-like. I realize that kids can drown in very shallow water so I won't be lax about assigning water watching duty to responsible leaders; but hiring an actual lifeguard to watch our kids wade in a splash area is a little much.

Where is the line between "playing with water" and "swimming" for the BSA? Obviously playing in a sprinkler or with water balloons is not swimming, and obviously getting into water that might be above some scouts' heads is swimming, but where exactly is the line that is drawn between "splashing" and "swimming"? Anything with standing water? Water that's more than 18 inches? Or...? I'm trying to plan an Webelos outing and the park the kids want to go has a shallow stream with a beach which is a popular "splash in the hot sun" spot but it's not deep enough for a lifeguard to be necessary *in my opinion* although it's certainly necessary to have water watchers. I haven't taken the Safe Swim Defense course yet (it's on my list!) but I know the gist of marking off the swim area and swim levels, etc.. I'm just not sure whether any of that is really necessary if the water is still, clear, and super duper shallow - way too shallow to actually swim in, even for my tiny 4 year old. It's really just a large natural wading pool. The biggest hurdle I have is finding a qualified lifeguard and I'm wondering whether that's going to be necessary for BSA rules.

We do have a DE; I just didn't happen to be chatting with him at the last Roundtable. I'll definitely ask him. Thanks!

Thanks for the input, everyone. As near as I can tell, regardless of what the DC side-eyes me about, nobody else is actually *using* all 4 digits in their published unit numbers (except venturing crews, as noted previously). So for example there's a Troop 61 that's been chartered by a local church for decades. Two years ago they chartered a Pack 61, and this year they also chartered a Troop 61 for girls. Troop 61 for girls is officially 4061 in the computer but they aren't actually using the whole thing. I'll make an argument in favor of using 422 on uniforms (unless someone comes up with a better idea - I certainly haven't thought of anything) even if 4422 is our official number in the computer. I hope they'll just let us do it. 4 digits somehow feels like a lot. And it won't fit on the velcro patch I've got on my den leader uniform for the unit numerals.

We are just a few pieces of paper away from starting our new troop for girls, chartered by the local chapter of the Izaak Walton League. It's time to pick a Troop number! The local IWL doesn't have any other Scout units so this is a new partnership. IWL doesn't apparently use chapter numbers (I was thinking of seeing if a matching number was available). Someone suggested we use the date for earth day, which is April 22 (so troop 422) and that seems like the best idea anybody's had so far. But I'm told that the BSA is trying to get everyone to use a 4-digit number, and girl troops will all start with #4. The only unit numbers I've EVER seen that use all 4 digits are Venturing Crews (I guess they all start with #2 and I think all the exiting Boy Scout units start with #1? I guess #3 must be for Explorers? I may have that all mixed up...) The only other girl troop in our District isn't using 4 digits. They are using the same number as the Boy Troop and the Cub Scout pack chartered by the same CO. But... there are a number (no pun intended) of non-compliance issues with that Troop so just because they're doing it doesn't mean it's going to fly. The district commissioner seemed to be pretty serious about choosing a number that is 4 digits beginning with 4. Maybe 4422 would be a good Troop Number but I like 422 better. Totally open to other suggestions. How would you choose a number and are you being asked to use a 4-digit number for new units?

I don't think that's the intention. It's just that kids are more likely to get homesick if they have ready and easy access to call home. At least, that's what I've been told over and over. I haven't witnessed it. My own older kids never seemed to suffer from homesickness. I expect my daughter might, but for her I honestly think being able to call home would help. But she's a unique kid.

I'm on my 3rd cub scout and I've NEVER upgraded their belt buckles from one year to the next. They all get whatever cub scout buckle happens to be laying around. They are replaced now and then when lost or irreparably damaged. They are also handed down from one sibling to the next. You can't see what rank is impressed on each buckle from a socially acceptable distance anyway. Youth-made woggles are an acceptable part of the uniform. When my daughter lost her bear slide several months ago, I sat her down and taught her how to make a paracord woggle. I buy hats and neckerchiefs 2nd hand pretty much, or pass them down from one kid to the next The bear scarf my daughter uses now is the same one her brother used 15 years ago. There's a pretty good chance my next cub scout will be sporting the golden Wolf scarf instead of the new red one in a few years, because "once official, always official" and I'm not likely to buy another one when I have a perfectly good one sitting in my bag-o-scout-accessories.

Our main Council camp ground has zero cell service anyway. So about all the phones are good for there are as alarm clocks and cameras.

I think we're going to give this one a whirl. https://slumberjack.com/overland-8-person-tent/?gclid=CjwKCAjw8qjnBRA-EiwAaNvhwOn-xO2BcfZqzQ3K4HmosUIQWnYrRWdysHaIL0FuVU4vdAFslNosYBoCICIQAvD_BwE

Under 20 is my wish so this would work for me but my husband wants to be able to stand up in more than just the center of the tent so most done styles are out. And cabin style tents are all 30+ 😕 maybe I should just get one tent for him and one for me. 😅

Aw man, the next size up would be perfect if it weren’t almost 50 lbs. and so expensive. Cool looking design though.

So, my husband and I are old. We kind of panicked when our other Scouts grew up and decided to have a couple more last-minute kids who are now in (or will be in next year) cub scouts. We own a nice 4-man tent that we like but by the time we blow up a queen sized air mattress there's no room left for the kids - and they're still too young to tent alone. We're too run down to carry heavy tents the long distances from the parking lot to the campsites at our local Scout camps, or to hunch over in a tent without enough ceiling height, or sleep on the ground so we can all squeeze into the 4-man tent we already own. Truth be told, we have become Glampers in our old age. When our older kids were cub scouts we never or almost-never camped with them, and when they graduated to Boy Scouts they started using one-man tents and I usually slept in my SUV in the parking lot if I went to camp at all. When we camp outside of Scouts we take the RV. I don't want to spend a ton of $$ on a tent. I know you get what you pay for, but I'm hoping it won't be long before at least one of the kids will be tenting with another Scout or in her own one-person tent, and we can squeeze the small one in on a small air mattress into the tent we have. We only need something that might last for 3 or 4 camping trips (two summers of cub scout family camp). I need it to have a nice tall height with enough room at the max height to walk around (Ok, this is my husband's demand). I need to be able two blow up a queen size air mattress and still have room for gear and two children - can be on twin or smaller mattresses or share a double size or whatever. I need it to be waterproof. We live in Oregon. I need it to not be too heavy. Bulky when stored is OK, but not too heavy. The easier to set up, the better. It gets really dark really early around here so setting up camp in the dark is a fact of life. Packing up rarely happens in the dark, so easy to tear down isn't as big of a deal. If there were a pop-up "instant tent" in existence that fit our other criteria I'd buy it; but the biggest I've seen are for 3 people and are only about 4 feet tall. I may have a small cheap pop-up tent from Harbor Freight around here somewhere already, if we didn't ditch it when we moved last. I loved that thing, but it wouldn't be big enough. Ideas? Links?

I am no expert but I would think it would be entirely appropriate especially if the content is taken directly from the BSA guidelines. If you're thinking about making your own rules, then your COR and your committee would probably need to approve the ideas first. But if you're talking about a "quick summary" of BSA guidelines for uniforms and smoking rules and other adult behavior guidelines, I don't see how that could be inappropriate.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but in the Troop my older kids were a part of, we had no rules about this but we made a conscious effort to minimize the number of merit badges, especially the Eagle required ones, that were taught and signed off on by a Scout's own parent. Every committee member was a merit badge counselor for as many Eagle required merit badges as we could attest to (or gain) competence in, so although some of the Scouts might have had one or two non-required badges counseled by his own parent, the vast majority were not.