Liz

Shortridge -- There are no commercially available dehydrated foods which don't contain gluten and/or dairy as far as I'm aware. And it's too late for me to start cooking and then dehydrating an entire week's worth of meals at home. Although I do intend to do some of that for the backpacking trip.

Lisabob -- I am more than willing to cook in the kitchen if they would allow me to, but they won't. I even have a current Food Handler's permit. So any relevant laws should be satisfied. But the Council regulations prohibit it. And I know the poor kid willing to eat salad all week is going to be miserable. I can live on salad all week myself, but my idea of a salad includes things like grilled chicken and hard boiled eggs! If my son's willing to live off canned chili for the week, he can probably do that, but I won't be able to go without full access to a kitchen. I am 7 months pregnant right now and balanced nutrition for me is absolutely critical... even more so than it would be for another woman in the same situation due to years of intestinal damage caused by eating gluten before I knew it was slowly killing me. Thankfully at least my son was diagnosed sooner and doesn't have as much damage. And I don't know if we have enough adults to cover the troop at camp if I don't go, since I was signed up for the whole week.

You're right that they don't need an RV. They just need refrigeration and a stove. A camp stove would be fine... frankly what I have in the RV really isn't much more than that, anyway. If they would allow me a reasonable space in a fridge (which they don't have) and a camp stove, that would be fine. I even talked to the food services director about this yesterday, but he just reiterated that space is very limited and didn't address my camp stove request at all. So the problem is that I'm fairly certain they won't allow a camp stove, either. Plus, scheduled camp activities run right up to meal time, so scheduling time for the boys to cook their own meals means they might as well not go to summer camp at all. And it doesn't solve the refrigeration problem. Buying a $150 dorm fridge, on top of the camp fees and all the food for the week, even if I can find one on such short notice, seems a little ridiculous to me, and again, I seriously doubt they'd allow me to plug one in anyway. Filling coolers with ice might be sorta feasible, but meat and bread will need to be kept frozen or they won't last a full week. Another problem is that the other boy is so neurotically afraid of being "different" that I already know he won't be willing to eat a menu completely different from the other kids. I'd been planning on preparing food that was more or less identical to what the other kids were eating, so that this one kid's fear of looking different wouldn't be an issue. My son is a lot more thick-skinned in that way and I know he wouldn't have any problem just cooking his own food if he were allowed to do so. In fact, that's what he's doing with his youth group this week in Mexico. He doesn't care whether he's eating what everyone else eats, as long as he's fed. So this causes a potential problem with, "Why is this other kid willing to just eat salad all week and your kid needs us to waive the rules about propane in the camp site" or whatever. Even if they'd waive those rules with both the kids. Which I bet they won't.

It's really too late to try to arrange for the entire troop to cook at their campsite... even if they'd be allowed, which I doubt. They do have one day where they prepare meals at the campsite, but the food provided for the kids to cook is still full of gluten. I will call the CE tomorrow and see if there's anything else that can be done. It's true that a lot of foods don't require refrigeration, but they do require preparation. If they would allow for access to kitchen facilities we could do it with minimal refrigeration. I am not sure eating nothing but canned chili three times a day for a week is realistic (Ok, two meals a day since he could take boxes of cereal and a milk-alternative for breakfast), and that's pretty much all I can think of that would be able to be heated in a microwave and doesn't require refrigeration. That, and I think there's one brand of canned vegetable soup that doesn't have wheat or dairy in it... I could rush around and completely re-think the menu and let my son cook his camp stove for the whole week if that would be allowed... which I doubt... but it would be super expensive. With a little more time to plan I might be able to figure something else out. It's tough because our solution to our dietary needs in our family has generally been "we cook everything from scratch." Pre-made foods that contain neither gluten nor dairy are extremely expensive. A single (tiny) serving of microwavable "rice mac and cheeze" costs $5 (and has to be stored in the freezer). So the task of trying to figure out what meals I can put together that can sit in a box for a week and be heated up in the microwave with zero prep work in the next 48 hours is extremely daunting. We've been working on figuring out a workable backpacking menu for the last three months and we still have some "gaps" to fill that we haven't figured out yet. I thought I had a solution that would be acceptable, and since nobody called me to tell me "no" -- I really thought everything would be fine. I just feel very blindsided right now.

Ok, so here's the situation: Our troop is scheduled to go to a local Council-run summer camp this Sunday (July 4). We have two boys in our troop (one is my son) who cannot eat wheat or gluten. My son also cannot eat dairy. In addition, I cannot eat gluten either and I had planned to volunteer as an adult leader at camp this year. The camp policy on special diets is as follows: Food Service: Our goal is to give you a well-balanced menu with high quality food. Persons with special menu needs may visit the council web site at www.cpcbsa.org in early May to view a copy of the camp menu if they wish to bring special items to supplement our menu (i.e. diabetic, vegetarian, and food allergies). A Special Needs Form should be completed and returned to the council office one month prior to arrival if special dietary health issues exist. A camper may need to bring supplemental food items to satisfy special needs. Please also notify the camp food service personnel upon your arrival at camp. Well, there isn't a single meal on the entire camp menu in which the main course does not contain gluten, and most contain dairy as well. The camp only allows a SMALL space in the refrigerator for a few "special" items to substitute, does not allow any campers or adult leaders to prepare food in the kitchen except for access to a microwave and toaster (the toaster being absolutely useless to us since it would contaminate anything put into it with gluten), and does not allow their food service staff to specially prepare any food for individual campers. Essentially, they cannot accommodate a dietary need of this magnitude in their kitchen. WHICH I UNDERSTAND and would not really expect them to. So, after discussing the situation with our Scoutmaster, Council chairperson (who happens to be the mother of the other kid who can't eat gluten), and the ASM who is generally in charge of dealing with camp stuff, we came up with a plan to ensure that our kids could go to camp and their nutritional needs still provided for. We filled out the appropriate accommodation requests and asked that I be allowed to park my RV at the camp so I could use my small kitchen to prepare meals for the boys. The paperwork was submitted to the Council in May, and we never heard back. The ASM was supposed to follow up with the Camp Ranger, but he had a family emergency that sort of distracted him and I just found out that he never followed up. So yesterday I called the Council to double-check that everything would be OK for me to bring my RV and park it there. As it turns out, they had misplaced our paperwork, stuck it in the wrong stack, never forwarded it to the Camp Ranger, and apparently never even read it. At my insistence that it was turned in, she kept looking and found the paperwork "in the wrong place." And, the answer is "No." It is against Council policy to allow RVs at camp. Period. End of story. They said in a voicemail they would "understand" if we canceled, but did not offer to refund camp fees. They will not allow me (or the boys) to prepare food in their kitchen. They will not make any variation whatsoever on their stated policy -- a small corner of the fridge and a microwave. They won't say how "small" is small, but the food services person told me yesterday that they really don't have much room because their fridge has to hold all the food for 200 campers for the entire week. The other boy is willing to try to get by on salad for the entire week (!) but I don't know whether my son will feel the same way and I won't be able to reach him until tomorrow because he's out of the country (building houses in Mexico). I thought we had this all planned out nicely, so as to have little to no impact at all on the Camp staff and facilities and still make sure the kids had enough fuel to run on for the week. I am thoroughly disgusted with our Council right now. Am I overreacting? How do your camps handle special dietary needs? Any suggestions? I would be a lot less upset if they would have done their job and read the accommodation request back in May when it was submitted, and contacted me then so we could work something out. I wouldn't have minded sitting down with someone and going over our options and trying to find an alternative if what I suggested wasn't going to work, but with only a little more than 48 hours left before the kids leave for camp, it's a little late for that now. To top it all off, the food services person won't leave me a phone number to reach him at, his number is blocked so I can't get it off my phone, and the email address he left on my voicemail bounced. So now I'm at the mercy of our half-cocked Council to try to relay a message back to him.

This is great! Our troop has had the Red Cross come out and do a certification course for CPR, First Aid, AED, Child CPR, and Infant CPR. It was a great experience. We had some parents and siblings join us, too. The first time I took a CPR class, we were told that if we were doing CPR, the victim was already dead... we shouldn't ever feel bad about hurting them or "failing to save" them -- but rather feel great if we were able to bring them back to life.

I just want to thank everyone for the input. It really helps.

1) Pumpkin 2) Um... all other pies tie for 2nd place. I like pie.

Scoutnut: The law around here rarely protects children. One of the other families in the troop had a restraining order against the father for three years based on spousal abuse and child abuse and still the father had the right to unsupervised access to his children; the only thing that would have prevented him from coming on Scout activities would have been the presence of the mother because he couldn't be within a certain distance of her at any time. That mother has tried to get supervised visitation several times in the court and failed every time. In the case in question, however, the father does not pose any obvious threat to the kids and there is no legal basis for even attempting to restrict visitation, and probably no moral basis, either, considering he only chooses to see them a few times a year anyway. Again, the mother isn't trying to restrict access to the kids, but simply alert the Scoutmaster of the level of supervision that may be prudent if he does choose to let him attend a campout.

The mom allows visitation and has left the troop involvement decision up to the Scoutmaster. You are right that she doesn't want to go to court, but she's not using the Troop to keep him away from her kids; the kids visit with him occasionally already, including overnight visits... pretty much as often as he invites them, which recently has been a handful of times per year. She is primarily concerned with making sure the Scoutmaster is aware of the issues and can make an informed choice as to whether to allow him to come along and what level of supervision he needs to provide. This particular parent is actually unlikely to take the time to follow through anyway. I think the bigger issue is how to handle these things when they come up with other families. So... let's say you required background checks for parents and non-custodial parents to attend overnight functions. What level of "failure" would be a reason to exclude a parent? Would the standard be different for a non-custodial parent? I mean, if someone is a registered sex offender (to our knowledge the father in question is NOT a *convicted* sex offender), obviously you would be responsible for keeping him away from the boys... or is that even obvious? At what point does YPT trump a parent's right to "observe" all activities? Part of YPT is screening volunteers... how does that apply to parents? Or does it?

Thank you, folks. This is really helpful. The more I think about it, the more I think a policy DOES need to be in place. These are not the only boys in the troop with non-custodial parents of questionable character. For the family in question, the absent father has not requested to attend a specific campout yet; just expressed his desire to the mother and to the boys that he wishes to do so "sometime soon." He also does not have a specific visitation schedule in place but does still have the right to visit his children, because that's the way the law works. Any other comments are welcome... whatever gets posted before the next TM I'll print out and take with me to talk to the Scoutmaster because I think a lot of very good points have been made.

By the way, just for clarification, I am NOT the Scoutmaster, but the Scoutmaster has asked my opinion on the matter.

Thank you... So, do you normally require background checks of all parents who want to tag along on a campout? The non-custodial parent is not asking (at this point) to be an ongoing volunteer. If you do not require a background check of all parents, do you make an exception for this one? Most likely this parent will not know that this is not normally required of every parent. Both the custodial parent and the step-parent in the family have had background checks because they are troop volunteers. Alternatively, do you institute a new policy that all parents need to have background checks if (for example) they come on an overnight trip with the boys? Do you feel this is a prudent policy regardless of the particular issue at hand?

Hi, folks! I haven't been on for a while, but I've missed you all. I have had a few questions come up lately and it suddenly occurred to me that you folks would be a good resource to ask. I'll try to keep this as general as I can rather than get into the specifics of our situation. Maybe some of you have run into this before. Let's say the non-custodial parent of some of the boys in your Boy Scout troop suddenly decides he (or she) wants to join your troop on a camp-out. The custodial parent has some reservations due to the character of the non-custodial parent. Concerns include things like a past felony conviction of a violent crime, history of drug and alcohol abuse, and (although legal charges were never filed) concerns about child abuse & a history of statutory rape. Custodial parent has had such limited contact with this theoretical non-custodial parent in so many years (say, ten or so) that the custodial parent does not know whether the non-custodial parent still struggles with these issues or not, neither has the custodial parent seen any particular evidence that anything has changed. Custodial parent has been an active volunteer in the Troop for several years now, and the boys in question are high-school age. Custodial parent is hesitant to say "no" to the non-custodial parent, because of concerns about being seen as interfering in the practically non-existant relationship between the sons and their usually-absent parent. But custodial parent wants Scoutmaster to be aware of possible issues and leaves the final decision up to Scoutmaster. Let's say you're the Scoutmaster? What do you do? If you allow involvement, what are the limits you put on it? I.E. -- weekend campout, summer camp, or advanced wilderness backpacking trip?(This message has been edited by Liz)

Thank you so much for all your help in this, folks! I'm trying to stay out of the way and let the boys do the organizing, but I feel I need to know what's going on so I can help steer a little when absolutely necessary (or, preferably, when ASKED). I will let the boys know about the interest inventory. Our DE has been unusually un-helpful in other areas, so that is a bit of a last resort as far as I'm concerned. If the boys would like us to, we might be able to just pick one up from the front desk at the local council office. -Liz

So, the boys will need to approach a potential CO -- perhaps the one who charters our Boy- and Cub- scout troops. If they get turned down (they're not the friendliest CO around), I think I'll encourage them to try my church. It's further away from the neighborhood where our boys live, but I don't see any reason why they'd have to actually drive over there very often. Thanks for the help, folks. -Liz

Not to get off the topic of the competency level of the folks at National or anything... but... I think I have enough of an understanding now to kind of understand. The boys are really serious about forming the Venturing Crew. 3 of the 4 most active boys in my son's patrol will turn 18 sometime within the next 8 months. My son's only 15. They are putting this together themselves, and seeking out adult leaders. My son asked me and my husband (on behalf of the other boys) last night to be adult leaders in the crew. I look forward to assisting them in a truly boy-run program, unlike how their troop is currently being run. My husband has been so disenchanted with the adult-led program that he walked away as ASM several years ago and hasn't been back; he's excited to get on board to help advise a group of self-sufficient young men in THEIR program. I think my son and any of the other boys currently in Scouting that they eventually attract to the crew will want to continue working on ranks. So the Crew will need availability of merit badge counselors, correct? I presume these don't have to be part of the Crew leadership. Can Crew leaders who are NOT registered through a Troop still be MB counselors? -Liz

Yes. Very helpful. Thank you.

Hello, knowledgeable folks! My son is 15, Star rank, and is the youngest member in his very active BSA patrol. All the other boys currently in his patrol will be turning 18 sometime within the next 12 months. They have been together for many years, and now are talking about starting a Venturing Crew (partly to seek new adventures, partly to buy some time since you can be a "youth" in Venturing through age 20). But I and my son are both a bit confused about how all this works. We have some questions. - What is the difference between a "Venturing Crew" and a "Venturing Patrol?" - Is it necessary to start a different organization, which would involve convincing the CO to sponsor yet another group (or finding a different CO), or can they be an addendum to the existing Troop? - If they are part of the existing Troop (if that's even possible), would they still be able to include female members? (one or two of the boys in the patrol have close-in-age sisters who want to join). - How hard is it to continue working toward Eagle after joining a Venturing Crew? Is this too much? I read somewhere that boys who are First Class or higher when they become Venturers can continue working on Eagle requirements without having to stay active in a troop in addition to the Crew; but it wasn't an "official" source so I don't know how accurate that was. My son's not sure he's going to want to stay active in both a troop and a crew, primarily because of time commitments. - What about OA? My son and all the members of his patrol are in the OA. - How does uniforming work for a Venturer who is also a Boy Scout and/or is working on ranks toward Eagle and/or is in the OA? Two separate uniforms? Thanks in advance for your help. -Liz

This story is much more detailed and more interesting than the version I posted at the start of the thread: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,518417,00.html I understand the attraction of back-country solo hiking, and perhaps there are situations (when carrying a locator beacon) when the benefit outweighs the risk. I am not convinced that this was one of those situations, given the conditions and how remote this hike apparently was. Situations like Gern describes, where there are multiple solo (and paired) hikers along the same trail, would mitigate the risk quite a lot; if you fell and sprained your ankle, chances are someone would be along soon who might be able to get help. -Liz

I realize that he wasn't obligated to obey the Scout rules on a solo trip. I also realize that a buddy probably would not have kept him from getting lost. But it was a big risk to take -- he's fortunate that he didn't get hurt or sick and need his buddy. I try to teach my sons that the things they learn in Scouting are lessons that are designed to apply to life in general. I would not approve of my son, 17 yr old Eagle Scout or not, going on a hike alone. Buddy System is the first thing they learn as Tenderfoots. I just wonder why this boy didn't take that lesson to heart. Is there something about being experienced that makes the basics not a good idea anymore? I am happy that this boy DID seem to have the skills necessary to survive being lost, apparently with no major mishaps. He obviously has learned a lot about wilderness survival. -Liz

Interesting story about a Scout: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090428/ap_on_re_us/us_missing_hiker Not to diminish this young man's survival skills, but shouldn't he have known better than to go on a hike in the wilderness without a buddy in the first place? -Liz

All I have to say is "Ditto" what Lisabob said. -Liz

Perhaps the problem with the uniform is that the fund raiser was at a local hardware chain. It might be seen as promoting the chain. If you were making and selling burgers-n-dogs in a public park it might be different? -Liz

I function as the webmaster for our troop. I keep our calendar in iCal and broadcast it to the web via MobileMe. This calendar is linked to the troop website, and it's available for parents and kids to view online or subscribe to. There aren't enough specifics on the calendar to warrant password-protecting it, but that could be done if necessary. In reality, only one or two families EVER look at the website or the online calendar. But it's no trouble for me to keep it going. Our technophobic Scoutmaster hands out lists of upcoming events every once in a while, and I put it into iCal for personal use; broadcasting it to the web happens automatically. I keep thinking that someday we'll have more people who look at the web. The only boys in our troop who are on Facebook, as far as I know, are my two sons and the JASM. We have one ASM who has a Facebook account but he won't share the info and won't give anybody his email address. I'm not sure I understand what the point of Facebook and email are if you insist on keeping them secret even from adults you've been working with for 8+ years, but he's entitled to his privacy I suppose. We do publish a troop roster every once in a while which includes phone numbers and email addresses. Occasionally one of the boys in the troop will use email instead of phone to get the word out about something-or-other. So... that's where we are as a troop: just barely coming out of the dark ages. -Liz