Lisabob

Scoutnut, I understand that different units have different approaches, so what worked for me might differ than what works for you. I do know that in the units I'm familiar with though, the committee does expect to be aware of any special programs various leaders are organizing, preferably before the fact, and this includes the popcorn kernal. Committees want to be sure the programs run by chairs of this-n-that are in line w/ the pack's overall program and BSA principles - that's the committee's most important job. So yes, the committee could tell a program chair "no" if they wanted to do something problematic. As for running a large # of sales past the committee for approval: yes, I've done that. Of course I wouldn't want to do it ad hoc - rather I'd want to put my coherent plan (we'll have this many sales, in these places on these dates, staffed by these leaders/parents) to the committee all at one time. Anyway I was just trying to come up with some tactful reasons, based on my own experiences, for the CC to use to explain to this popcorn kernal/CM why he really ought to check in w/ the committee before planning any program where it appears that he is representing the pack or where his actions might cause problems for the pack. Your gs cookie idea is a good one - as long as the person in question isn't still having nightmares about organizing that one! Lisa'bob A good old bobwhite too!

MBscoutmom, it sounds like what you have here is someone who would be happy to be your committee's round-up chair, or membership chair. There's some flexibility in terms of positions on the pack committee, beyond certain basics (CC, COR, and treasurer are "must haves"), so get creative if you need to but give her a specific title and a specific job while she's still excited about volunteering. After several months, if she ends up doing a good job and wants more, start talking about her becoming CC next year in the fall, while you're still around to offer advice (if needed). Eamon and others, having worked on pack committees, I must say I **wish** we could all be lucky enough to have a nominating committee, and/or a really helpful COR and UC to aid pack-level recruitment. Unfortunately that wasn't my experience though. While I've met UCs who had great networks, they tended to know people who had been involved in BSA for several years, rather than people who were just entering the program with their elem.school aged children. And when you refer to this "nominating committee," do you mean at the district level? If so, I've had the same problem there. Cubbing, imo, gets the short shrift because of this - but maybe that's another thread. If you mean a nominating committee at the pack level, gosh, you mean I need to find yet more volunteers to sit on this committee, separate from the existing pack committee??? Sigh. Lisa'bob A good old bobwhite too!

Thanks to everyone for your input. Lisa'bob A good old bobwhite too!

I have to agree with Torveaux. We joined a pack that did 3-5 fundraisers a year, each of which raised a couple hundred dollars. Given the time & effort, and bad feelings generated (why doesn't so-and-so participate, this person is doing all the work, etc..) it wasn't worth it. It was tough to wean them from some of these (they'd become the personal fiefdoms of certain parents) but we finally got down to just one - made more money, caused less stress, a winning situation all-around. We also found that if parents knew where the money was going they were more willing to support our fundraiser. Share your budget for a specific event that everybody really likes to attend so they can understand what you do with all this money they help raise. Another way we got parents to participate with their boys is by offering a dues rebate to those who reached a certain sales goal. Other times, we offered "free" things to boys who reach goals, like daycamp registration, their hat or scarf for their rank, etc.. These aren't really free of course - they raised the money to buy them through the sale - but mom and dad didn't have to pay out of pocket so they were happy. If you go this route though, make sure you set up some pack-level opportunities to earn sales (like a show&sell event) so that kids whose extended families live far away or where the parent(s) can't be much help for personal reasons have a shot at earning their way too. These are often the kids who need scouting the most but can afford it the least. And don't forget to communicate the sale dates well in advance, in writing (flyers are great). Parents are as over-scheduled as their children these days. Lisa'bob A good old bobwhite too!

Jaime, Congrats on becoming your pack's CC. This can be a really fun job. I did it for a while and loved it. Personally, I would have a problem with any parent, leader or not, organizing a show&sell event at a store without the pack's permission. In our area at least, there are many packs and troops who sell popcorn, and a limited number of stores to do events at. Consequently, to avoid major "turf wars" between units, several of the packs work together to schedule their show&sell events at different times/days/locations around town. Plus, we've all found that while it makes A LOT of difference to us if the store manager accidentally books two or more units to do the same fundraiser at the same time, it is just a hassle to the manager that s/he would rather not deal with. By coordinating among units ourselves, we have avoided these problems without putting a burden on store managers to keep their/our schedules straight. Finally there's the burn-out problem. I've actually had store managers tell me that they don't want ANYBODY fundraising anymore outside their store because they just got too many requests and customers also were getting irritated. So packs and troops need to be careful not to abuse the good will of the local community, which could happen more easily if every gung-ho parent went out and did what your CM did. So if some parent went and organized something on his or her own, this could potentially create havoc with many unit plans. Maybe this is a way of gently explaining to your well-meaning (take it on faith that he is well-meaning...it'll make your job easier...) but errant leader that they shouldn't be setting up fundraising events without the pack's knowledge/permission. Lisa'bob A good old bobwhite too!

Thanks everyone for your input. From the sound of it, the style of CoH's vary quite a bit from one troop to another. I especially appreciate the input regarding the kind of reception skits might receive from some of the boys. My kid is a total ham so that hadn't occurred to me. Anarchist, yes, I am talking about boy scouts, not cubs, and I do understand the desire to have a dignified award ceremony. However, what I've noticed at all 3 of these that I have been to so far is that the BOYS (and especially the younger boys, but not only them) seem bored too. They sit in chairs facing the stage and listen as one adult after another and an occasional PL or the SPL talks. By the end of the night they're squirming all over the place and they're not listening very well. I hardly think this is what most people would desire either. Thanks again, everyone, for your feedback. Lisa'bob A good old bobwhite too!

I can definitely sympathize with all those parents who complain about the quality (or lack of same) of school lunches. My son started middle school this fall and when we went to the parent orientation night, the staff urged us to sign him up for the "standard lunches" option rather than the much more expensive a la carte option. Turns out "standard" means a choice of nachos & cheese, hot pretzle & cheese, or pizza. Who'd have guessed?! So he takes his lunch most days but still...the school hardly did anybody a favor here. Anyway I think scouting actually does a reasonable job of getting the message out, at least where I live, about being outdoors. In the Cub program I had lots of conversations with new parents who were signing their boys up expressly so they would spend time doing physical things outside. Once they hit Boy Scout age though, it is much harder to get your child involved if they weren't in Cub Scouts - too many other activities, the perception that boy scouts might be "uncool," etc.. So I guess we'd better get these kids while they're cub aged! Lisa'bob A good old bobwhite too!

Welcome Robin! Webelos was my favorite part of the cub program. There are so many opportunities to do fun things and the boys are old enough that they can handle more challenging activities too. I'm sure you'll have a blast. Three things to add to what's already been said (and it is great advices!): 1) As you progress through the Webelos I and II years, start handing the boys more responsibility for various den decisions and even program management. You can start small but when they join Boy Scouts, if the troop really is "boy led" then they'll be making a lot of decisions for themselves in their patrols. Help them build up to that while they're Webelos and it will increase the chance that they stick around once they cross over into Boy Scouts. 2) Don't feel obligated to stick only to the Webelos book. Some of the absolute best activities we did were things that were interesting, fun, age-appropriate, and in keeping w/ BSA rules, but not in the webelos book anywhere. Plus this lets you draw on the talents of the other parents in your den more fully. 3) Arrange to attend district events geared toward Boy Scouts (often webelos are also invited for all or part of these programs) even if you're only there during the day and not camping overnight. A lot of district-level events for Cub Scouts are designed (as they must be) with younger Cubs in mind so by the time our guys were in 4th/5th grade they were ready for something a little more involved. One of our den's all time favorites was a trip to a district "fly in" at a local airport. This was arranged for boy scout troops but it wasn't hard to wrangle an invitation to spend Saturday there with a troop and it was awesome - really gave them an idea of what they had to look forward to when they crossed over to Boy Scouting. Have a great time with your son! Lisa'bob A good old bobwhite too!

Hi everyone, I just joined the forum this week. I've been a cub scout leader with different hats for several years, mostly on the committee but I was a webelos den leader too. Last winter my son crossed over into boy scouts and I've stepped back a bit to just watch and learn, although I have agreed to sit on boards of review as a committee member (haven't had one yet though). One thing I'm learning is that Boy Scouts is really different from Cub Scouts. I miss the cub program - I think I had as much fun as the boys did! - but it is amazing how much I'm getting done in my own life with that extra "hour a week" I used to volunteer to the pack, ha ha. I'm looking forward to discussion, ideas, and advice here. Lisa'bob A good old bobwhite too!

Welcome! Glad to see I'm not the only one from MI on here! Joining a pack during "restructuring" can be frustrating but it also means you'll have more say in building a program that you are really excited about, rather than inheriting a lot of "we are going to do it THIS WAY because that's how we ALWAYS did it" types of attitudes. So hang in there! About the Expense: Uniforms can be found fairly simply for less money online at ebay, etc, as well as local good will or salvation army stores. Or see if the graduating webelos scouts have old uniforms that they'd be willing to donate to a pack uniform exchange box. Esp. since tigers are using the blue shirts for the first time this year, advise all the parents to buy big. The boys can always grow into the shirts. Some packs also don't require you to buy the BSA issue pants, which cuts down on the expense, so see what your pack does first. Den supplies - local stores will often donate items to you, but you'll need to ask in advance. (Store managers also really appreciate thank you's written/illustrated by the scouts!) This is a great way to build up a den supply box for items that you might use in the future. Some stores require you to provide the pack's Non-profit Tax ID # for donations. If your pack leadership doesn't know what this is, your council staff should be able to help you figure it out. And so you don't end up doing everything, maybe put one of the other parents in the den in charge of procuring donations. Have fun! Lisa'bob A good old bobwhite too!

I've been to three so far and - sorry - they're BORING. Having recently crossed over from the Cub program, I can't help making comparisons to pack meetings and I can't imagine holding a pack meeting that was all talk and no action. Is there room in a CoH for skits, songs, etc..? Or is this just the "cub parent" in me? Lisa'bob A good old bobwhite too!

If you are already a W2 den leader and planning to stay active as a leader when your son crosses over into Boy Scouts, have you considered taking Outdoor Leader Skills (OLS) for boy scout leaders? I know this isn't the usual route. But really, if you'll only be in the cub program a few more months, it might make more sense. In our council at least, people are encouraged to take OWL (or whatever the heck we're calling it today) at the beginning of the W1 program, or even as bear leaders, for just this reason. Besides, if you're going to do woodbadge, you may find having OLS is helpful (though not absolutely necessary). Lisa'bob A good old bobwhite too!

"Just be careful though, to walk a fine line between maintaining standards and becoming the "award police" if you get involved in a position like this. " Or what I should've said: "be careful to walk a fine line between delivering the program as defined by BSA..." I certainly didn't want to suggest anyone's own "high standards" should be substituted for the actual requirements. Lisa'bob A good old bobwhite too!

Does your pack have an advancement chair on the committee? This is usually the person who handles the record keeping for achievements and buys all the awards for the pack. If you've already had conversations with the den leader and nothing is changing, this is a good place for the advancements chair to step in. If your pack doesn't have someone in this position, maybe this is a place for you to offer help. I served as our pack's adv. chair so I saw this happen occasionally. My stance was to explain, very politely, what the requirements for an award were, and what the boy in question still needed to do in order to meet them - to both the boy and his parent/leader. (I also bent over backward to provide opportunities for the boys finish requirements when necessary - as did many den leaders) Especially with parents of older boys (bears, webelos), I also pointed out that the boys would really struggle in Boy Scouts if they had everything handed to them, earned or not, in Cub Scouts. And anyway, the BOYS understood just fine about needing to actually do the work. It was the ADULTS who couldn't understand that self-esteem comes from actual accomplishment and not from hand-outs and freebies. Besides, most of the "requirements" are fun. That advancement chair position can be an integral part of pack leadership because so much of cub scouts includes recognition and awards. Just be careful though, to walk a fine line between maintaining standards and becoming the "award police" if you get involved in a position like this. Lisa'bob A good old bobwhite too!

Egads, drinking and Cubs. I served on a pack committee for several years where we had to address this issue a couple of times. Generally it was a matter of new parents not realizing what the rules were, and once they were (politely) informed, it wasn't a problem again. To try to avoid this, our pack came up with a 1-page handout we distributed to all new leaders and parents, outlining the basic do's and don'ts for pack outings (esp. campouts). Most of it was directed toward the boys and things like "please leave electronic games at home so they don't get lost or broken" but one or two things applied specifically to adults. However, if the LEADERS are doing it, here are a couple of thoughts: 1. Make sure ALL of the leaders are trained. This includes New Leader Essentials and Cub Leader Specific Training, as well as Youth Protection Training. These trainings usually mention the BSA policy on alcohol/drugs and cigarettes too several times. If the leaders aren't trained, here's an opportunity to encourage them to get trained. Call your council to find out when training will be offered in your area. (Probably not a good idea to tell council exactly WHY you're asking, just yet, unless all else fails.) 2. If the problem persists or the leadership doesn't see it as a problem, you can point out that the pack's unit insurance will not cover any kind of accident that might occur (and stuff does happen in even the best-run units), if the leadership failed to abide by BSA rules. If that happens, each and every member of the pack leadership could be held PERSONALLY liable for the accident, because it is the leadership's job to make sure the rules are followed. This counts especially for the committee members. Additionally, if you hold an event at someone's house, that person may be liable too (even if not part of the pack leadership), and again, your unit insurance won't cover it if the pack wasn't following BSA rules. Ouch. As someone else said, this is a situation that requires tact. However, I know that in our pack, when I pointed out the potential legal ramifications for individual leaders, people were suddenly much more willing to follow the rules without argument. Lisa'bob A good old bobwhite too!

Now that my son isn't in cubs anymore he and I at a loss regarding what to do with all his "temporary" patches. No more red vest to put them on! I know he can wear one at a time on his right pocket but what do you do with the rest of them? Other parents/leaders in the troop have suggested storing them in a box but that's not much fun. I saw a post elsewhere suggesting they can go on the back of the MB sash but I'd think he would run out of room fairly quickly. Suggestions? Lisa'bob A good old bobwhite too!

I've had a couple of conversations with district staff recently about possibly serving as a Unit Commissioner. Before deciding, I'd appreciate some input from those of you who are or have been UCs. Specifically, what is the "real world" expectation in terms of the number of units typically assigned (yes I know the 1:3 guideline but I'm talking about reality), what units want their UCs to do (or not do) and time commitment. By the way my understanding is that I'd be working only with Cub packs, not troops or crews. Lisa'bob A good ole bobwhite too!