LeCastor

Welcome @@craig.noah! Glad you joined us!

I've mentioned it in the past but I'll bring it up again. Richard Louv's book Last Child in the Woods discusses how nature and physical activity outdoors is inherently good for everyone. He points to the litigious inclination in the United States as one reason for decreased exploring outside. For example, if a child is injured playing outside his parents might sue the landowner. Louv argues that this fear of injury and subsequent lawsuits in one reason kids just don't go outside anymore. And, of course, we have the electronic gaming, iTunes, NetFlix, YouTube, etc that demand so much of everyone's time today. As a Scoutmaster of a Troop for five years, I struggled more and more with Scouts' not wanting to venture outside. Camping became anathema to them over time as the older Scouts turned 18 and went off to college. Incidentally, I visited a Troop meeting last week and THREE Scouts showed up: two spent 90 minutes on their phones and the other did book work for a merit badge. I felt defeated and I wasn't even the Scoutmaster anymore! There are those of us who try and have tried to keep the outdoor program alive in our own units. My example (the non-camping Troop) is surely not unique. I don't think it's BSA who is turning away from adventure, per se. Rather, I think the current cultural norms of instant knowledge on your phone and YouTube everything that leaves little left to learn. Scouts don't really have to dig deep to learn about things anymore; instead they can just Google it. Merit badges are cool, in my opinion. I'm not worried that there is an emphasis on STEM or STEAM (with the added Arts component). In fact, I think it's good that they have those career-focused badges. Allow me to share a story...My best friend and I used to make home movies with his dad's camcorder using my old Star Wars action figures. The storyline always revolved around our Troop and our goofy Scoutmaster (who we truly loved). Skip ahead ten years and my buddy became a top-rate videographer who made numerous documentaries which earned him Emmys, Peabodies, and Edward R. Murrow Awards. He found his calling in Scouting AND we went camping every month. The adventure is still there waiting for Scouts to seize it. Philmont is there. Sea Base is there. Northern Tier is there. Heck, What-cha-ma-call-it State Park is in their very own backyard. If they can't put their cell phones down for 48 hours and seek that adventure I guess we just can't point the finger at BSA. We've probably all heard of the Dark Side of the BSA which took place between 1972 (Improved Scouting Program) and the Return of the Jedi (a/k/a Green Bar Bill) in 1979. The BSA does try to keep up with the times but ultimately we always find our way back outside. Maybe Green Bar Bill will come back from Scouting heaven and write a new handbook to pick up where we left off when GPS units took the place of compasses. (I'm not anti-GPS; just using one example.) One day my old Troop will come around and dust off those tents, stoves, and cook kits that are languishing in the equipment closet deep in the church basement. But for now they are in a digital holding pattern, digesting the latest video on YouTube and texting the Scout sitting next to them...

I used an open Facebook page for my Troop and it was quite popular. We did as others have already posted above: didn't tag Scouts, didn't use last names, didn't say where we would be until after we had been there. I know the BSA lit says it should not be closed but my District Executive just created a closed page for our district, which I guess is ok since it's for the adult volunteers? Our council PR guy says we should be using Facebook and posting photos of the Cubs and Scouts. When I brought up the fact some parents would be against this he was surprised. We all sign the talent release form when we go to events, right? The health form we all sign says we allow our images to be used. If a parent doesn't want their kid's pic on Facebook I'd comply with that request. Otherwise, post away!

Thanks, Stosh!

Like NJ, I never heard a peep out of Trail Life after the initial hubbub. I don't think they won over many folks with their approach to the split, but that is strictly my opinion. (Not to get to political ) Speaking generally here, I think the best thing is to just continue with Boy Scouts of America and find the Troop/Pack/Crew that is right for you and your family. And on an unrelated note, I'm back to the Forum after a relatively brief Grad School Hiatus! I look forward to getting reacquainted. LeCastor

Archimago, you seem like a man after my own heart. Hillcourt's writings are where it's at!

When I was 14 my Troop elected me SPL and I chose a Scout to be my ASPL. He wasn't the coolest kid and was a bit maladroit, I guess you could say. So the other Scouts made a lot of chatter about my decision behind the new ASPL's back and I, being a silly teenager suggested I might impeach this Scout. It got back to him rather quickly and he called me that night in tears. Rest assured, I NEVER made the mistake of talking about about the Scouts I chose to lead with me ever again. So, you can understand who I am wary of this word "impeach" when used in conjunction with an SPL. As for a Scoutmaster removing an SPL who was elected by his peers, I would think there would have to a compelling reason why. Did the SPL threaten the lives of the other Patrols? If not, I really don't know why the SM should step in to remove him. This seems like the perfect opportunity to sit down with and counsel this young man so that both his and the SM's vision comes into alignment. Maybe we just don't have enough information to go on...

When I came onboard with my Troop I was just a strange 30-something guy off the street who was looking to get back into Scouting but this time as a volunteer. The Troop had a SM who was looking to step down and pursue life in other ways outside of Scouting and there were probably 3-4 ASMs at the time who went camping and stepped in whenever needed. However, they didn't desire to be SM in the slightest. So the volunteered after having been an ASM for less that six months. So what I'm saying is our Troop's "culture" has a pretty steady corps of ASMs who stay on year after year after year. There are the occasional Scouts who turn 18, register as an ASM, and then go off to college never to really fulfill that role. We've taken to suggesting the college Scouter reserve rather than registering these young men as ASMs. If someone wants to be an ASM and is willing to help out then I say sign 'em up!

I'm a BSHB nerd and have every edition on my canoe-shaped bookcase. But I really appreciate the 9th edition that Bill Hillcourt wrote in 1978 for publishing in 1979. This really brought the outing back to Scouting. Also, I do like the 1948 Scout Field Book Hillcourt wrote with James E. West. Good stuff! While I did buy the 13th edition of the BSHB I really haven't given it much of a read or even a glance yet. I just have this sinking feeling it's not going to be up to par for a Hillcourt book...How could it be? That said, I'm glad to see the outdoors creeping back into Scout rank advancement. Let's go camping!

Hi all! I agree with Sentinel that it would not be good at all to blame the Scouts for this error. Glad to hear they are good young men! Also, I agree with Stosh et al who voice concerns about the potential for problems that might arise come time to schedule the Eagle BoR. Also, I'll echo what other have said about notifying the local district executive. Since I work closely with our DE concerning issues of membership, I know he'd be very interested to know this is going on. He wants those eligible for Cub Scouts to count as Cubbies and those eligible for Boy Scouts to count in Troops. (Numbers are important to a few!)

Ecologist/Park Ranger

Skeptic, I, too, am glad you are doing well now and that you are home. Stay well! Scouts (and Scouters) are definitely helpful and caring folks!

Welcome @@skyfiiire! Glad to hear you are coming back to Scouting. I, too, took a long break (15 years) and have enjoyed every minute of my time serving the youth as an adult volunteer. LeCastor

Not having enough volunteers is not a new issue. Just tell people why Scouting is important to you and explain that you need help. If you don't ask someone they aren't likely to volunteer on their own. Some are scared because they don't understand Scouting. I don't think we can pinpoint exactly WHY people aren't falling over themselves to be Den Leaders. Ask, ask, ask, ask. Repeat as necessary.

If you're happy and you know it clap your hands. If you're happy and you know it clap your hands. If you're happy and you know it, Then your posts will surely show it. If you're happy and you know it clap your hands. If you're a Beaver and you know it slap your tail. If you're a Beaver and you know it slap your tail. If you're a Beaver and you know it, then your cheerfulness with surely show it. It you're a Beaver and you know it slap your tail. A Scout is Cheerful. Let's remember that the kids don't need to worry about this stuff.

Yes! I could have left the BSA because I don't agree with the membership policy as it stands now. However, I choose to stay and help give the youth the experience I had when I was their age. Leaving or staying? Either was it's one's own personal choice, but I don't think leaving is good for our Movement. The kids could not care less about this whole issue; they want the promise of Scouting: "You are an American boy. Before long you will be an American man. It is important to America and to yourself that you become a citizen of fine character, physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight. Boy Scouting will help you become that kind of citizen. but also, Scouting will give you fellowship and fun. Yes, it’s fun to be a Boy Scout! It’s fun to go hiking and camping with your best friends… to swim, to dive, to paddle a canoe, to wield an ax… to follow the footsteps of the pioneers who led the way through the wilderness… to stare into the glowing embers of a campfire and dream of the wonders of the life that is in store for you… It’s fun also to learn to walk noiselessly through the woods… to stalk close to a grazing deer without being noticed… to bring a bird close to you by imitating its call. It is fun to find your way cross country by map and compass… to make a meal when you are hungry… to take a safe swim when you are hot… to make yourself comfortable for the night in a tent or under the stars. In Scouting you become an outdoorsman. But Scouting is far more than fun in the outdoors, hiking and camping. Scouting is a way of life. Scouting is growing into responsible manhood, learning to be of service to others. The Scout Oath and the Scout Law are your guides to citizenship. They tell you what is expected of a Scout. they point out your duties. The Scout motto is “Be Prepared†– prepared to take care of yourself and to help people in need. The Scout Slogan is “Do a Good Turn Daily.†Together the motto and slogan spell out your ability and your willingness to serve. Your life as a Scout will make you strong and self-reliant. You will learn Scoutcraft skills that will benefit you as you grow. In time you will develop skills of leadership as well. So pitch in! Swing into action! In your patrol and your troop you will have some of the best times of your life. William ‘Green Bar Bill’ Hillcourt – page 9, Scout Handbook, 9th Edition, 1979" I don't see anything in there that says anything about sexuality. Let's not make it about sexuality. Instead, let's deliver the promise of Scouting.

+1000

Change is hard to accept sometimes. I personally don't see this a caving in to outside pressure, as has been said many, many, many times. My point has been all along that homosexual parents and non-parents who want to be volunteers in Scouting are just people. Hopefully my message has been consistent. One's personal definition of morality does NOT necessarily mean that's what is meant by "morally straight." There are a ton of heterosexual volunteers with questionable morals. If opposition to a potential membership policy change is strictly based on not caving for the sake of caving then I say get over it. In my mind this is not about caving and saying "oh well, let's just throw in the towel because 'the gays' are bullying us into it." It's more about giving a quality program to the youth without having to deny to a mom or dad the ability to participate in a Scouting with her/his son simply because they happen to be homosexual. Homosexuals can live as moral a life as anyone else. If your particular religion says otherwise then so be it. Not all religious institutions agree. Mine certainly doesn't. Our CO, a Methodist church, stands firmly behind our Pack, Troop, and Crew and opposes the membership policy of discrimination. (I thought I was done earlier but I guess I wasn't. )

Units are already ignoring policies, Bad Wolf. As for your potential leaving the BSA, that saddens me. I guarantee you, too, that there are plenty of volunteers who support the changes and are currently involved as volunteers. As for a "ground-swell" I tried to make it clear in my post above that I personally don't see a huge influx of new volunteers just busting to get in. You say that, however. Membership decline can't be linked solely to the discrimination policies, but I'm sure it's a big part of it.

We need a National Director of Scoutcraft to write our books for us.

Thanks, Skeptic, for sharing. It's an interesting read and I applaud Mr. Gates for keeping the topic of membership policy in the light. I am of the opinion, like Gates, that we simply can't ignore the shifting focus in the US regarding the rights of homosexuals. As I mentioned recently, I love Scouting and I want to do the best job I can for the youth. But if we had no BSA left after another potential court ruling, all of us would be forced to find alternatives that would further divisions that need not be there in the first place. I know many on the forum will "vote with [their] feet" in the event of a membership policy change--and that is perfectly acceptable and understandable--but I personally don't see it being that big of a game-changer in the long run as far as membership numbers are concerned. Also, I am not one to state that, the minute a potential change is made, there will be a sudden influx of members to our Movement. There are so many reasons why membership is declining and there is no panacea out there that can fix it. I support a change and if that means "local option" then so be it. My main concern is that youth have the option to participate in Scouting and that their parent(s) can, too, regardless of sexual orientation. That is all.

I don't think I would sign a book I didn't write either. Bill's books are the stuff Scouting is made of, literally.

Good job, buddy!

@, you still have that dead horse gif handy?

It's unfortunate that BSA has distanced itself from Hillcourt, for sure. We Scouters who remember him or know of his influence are pretty much all that's left other than a passing note here and there in the history books. What I'd really love to see is a collection of Green Bar Bill articles from Boys' Life in one nice volume. I don't think we'd have to have threads on the Patrol Method for Scouters if Bill were still speaking directly to the Scouts.