LeCastor

Seattle, I would argue that Scouting is about, and has always been about, the values of the Scout Oath and Law. Not sure which values you are attributing to liberals here. There are plenty of liberals and conservatives alike who don't adhere to the Oath and Law. We obviously don't know which changes Stosh was referring to in detail, but I think it's safe to say he's referring to the G2SS, the unifrom, the dreaded "gay" question, the decline of the patrol system/method, etc, etc, etc. I agree with Stosh that it's sad ppl don't know that our motto is still "Be Prepared". But I can't say for sure that any of the things I mentioned above would even be known to an outsider. In my opinion, ppl still see Scouts as upstanding young men and women who live by the values of the Scout Oath and Law. I really don't think it's fair to single out the liberals OR the conservatives for changes that have been made since 1910. Let's just concentrate on giving young men and women a positive experience in the outdoors--even if that means bringing STEM out there with us!

Arrowman, I don't want to speak for Torchwood here but I understand the sentiment. Reading your post was, indeed, interesting. But what if you gave a Scout an ODLR uniform and told him, "this is what a Scout wears" and then instilled in him the Scout Oath and Law? You could then give another Scout the ODLR uniform and tell him, "This is what a ______ wears" without installing the Scout Oath and Law. What do you get from the Scout with an ODLR uniform and a solid grasp of Scout values? Still emasculating? I'm just curious what justifies your statement beyond the Rockwellian Scouts.

A former supervisor of mine who was once a Girl Scout happens to be the daughter of a former Scoutmaster of the Troop for which I am now Scoutmaster. The Girl Scout in question was looking a photos of her brothers and her father from the trip they took to the 1973 National Jamboree in Idaho. She said, "Man, I was SO jealous of those guys!" Her Troop never did anything remotely that cool. My mom was a Girl Scout briefly in the 1950s and she dropped it faster than a hot potato because it was "all about sewing, cooking, and crafts". She remembers being so jealous of the Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts she knew from school. They were always going off on adventures and doing great things in the woods. Luckily, my mom got to go camping with her father, my grandpa, who camped in the style of Horace Kephart and "Nessmuk". She got the outdoors she craved through a local saddle club but it really would have been great for the Girl Scouts to have provided some of that adventure for her, too. I'm looking forward to the new Venturing Crew we're starting in January because the sisters of my Boy Scouts are finally going to be able to participate in Sea Base, Philmont, and Boundary Waters. The young women of my community aren't well-served in terms of outdoor adventure. I hope to change that so they don't feel the same in their 50s and 60s like my mom or my supervisor...

I have never planned a court of honor for my Troop either. The SPL asks someone in the Troop to volunteer to be the "Emcee" for the ceremony and that Scout typically plans the order of events and any type of ceremonial "stuff". We had one Scout who had Native American roots and he frequently showed us ceremonial dances of his ancestors. Other Scouts have lit candles for each point of the Scout Oath and Law. As for Eagle courts of honor, we have an advancement coordinator who offers to help new Eagles and their families plan the special event.

Hi Faith! I think you'll find all you need here: http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Awards/ReligiousAwards/faq.aspx And more specifically this part, as there are usually varying levels of religious awards in Cubs and then Boy Scouts: [h=3]If the religious emblems program for my faith has more than one level (for the different grade levels), may my child earn all of these recognitions?[/h] Yes. Members can earn all levels of their religious emblems program. However, they must be in the appropriate program guidelines when they start and complete each level (they may not go backward and earn younger programs).

How about "Cub Badge"? The Sea Scouts have Sea Badge.

You can learn a lot about the history of Wood Badge by following this link: http://www.woodbadge.org/history.html And this is an official BSA publication from the late-80s: http://www.scatacook.org/wb/wb-book-part1.pdf As for splitting Wood Badge into Cub-specific and Boy Scout-specific, I think there's a lot of merit there. In my experience earlier this fall, many of the "learners" (sorry, TAHAWK ) who were fresh into Cub Scouts didn't necessarily know anything about a Boy Scout Troop. The current Wood Badge takes this all for granted and doesn't make a point to explain, in detail, all that goes on in the six day course. Personally, I'm not worried that Wood Badge will become STEM-specific. However, there might be some aspects that touch on how to bring STEM activities--in addition to naturalist/woodcraft things--to the Scouts.

oh SNAP!

Just to be clear, Jason, I don't look down on you. What Arrowman was trying to say is not limited to the knot awards. (I don't think I was clear on that point when I wrote my post above.)

Jason, I don't want to answer for Arrowman; however, I share in the sentiment that an over-crowded uniform is a bit obnoxious, in my opinion. I would go so far as to say this is the same for youth. Sure, you've earned those awards and you have every right to wear all of them, but you don't have to. There's a point when an over-crowded uniform becomes bragging--in the eyes of some. I don't have the SM handbook in front of me so I will have to paraphrase a quote: there's no shame in wearing just your council strip, troop numeral(s), and badge of office. There are plenty of us who wear all the knots we have earned and then there are those of us who don't wear any knots at all. It's all a matter of choice. But to get back to the OP, skill awards don't belong on an adult.

P, I put the wiki link up above because I didn't know either: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogaining

LOL...I was confused for a moment and thought you were talking about the hair growth medication, Rogaine! Rogaining DOES look fun: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogaining

There are two early Scouting experiences I remember vividly in regards to food cooked in the open: 1. At Cub Scout Day Camp in Atlanta I was bored to tears in the dang gym of a local high school. But when we went outside and cooked hamburger, onions, potatoes, and carrots in aluminum foil, man, I was in hog heaven. I can still taste it now! Sure, you have to toss the foil afterwards but it's a fun experience for a small group--especially a Cubbie. 2. When I crossed over to my Troop my Scoutmaster showed us how to use a backpacking stove--a Coleman Peak 1--and we made Lil' Smokies with BBQ sauce in an aluminum pot. Again, I can taste it now! It's incredibly simple but Cubbies can pour in the sauce and stir them Lil' Smokies around. Heck, they can even each 'em with toothpicks out of their messkits.

Koolaidman, I just found it: "Scouter dot com Facebook Group"

Ok, I like these comments! Let's break it down: 1. Emphasize the patrol method and boy led aspects 2. Bring back basic woodcraft/T-2-1 Scout skills 3. GO OUTSIDE! 4. Discuss the aims and methods of Scouting in more depth 5. Dive deeper into "servant leadership" 6. Reform tickets so that they steer toward empowering the youth Personally, I think the patrol method is already taught in Wood Badge, but it would be a good idea to say from the outset: "Ok, Wood Badgers, you are now a patrol and you are modeling the life of a Scout." Some folks go through Wood Badge having never experienced Scouting and they don't just inherently know that they are living the life of Scout in the Beaver Patrol which makes up part of Troop 1. Believe it or not this is not obvious to every participant. Introduction to Outdoor Leadership Skills (IOLS) touches on these basic woodcraft/T-2-1 Scout skills. Wouldn't it be great if Wood Badge picked up where IOLS left off? When I took the outdoor course after becoming Scoutmaster, I was fired up and ready to do some Scouting even though I already knew all those basic skills. WB21C got me all fired up, too, but in a different way. But I definitely see the need for more woodcraft learnin'. Get out of the dining hall basement. Turn off the PowerPoint presentations. Get dirty and feel the breeze. YES! Absolutely, there is a need to talk about the aims and methods. We should be hitting participants smack in the face with this. WB21C touches on "servant leadership" and it's mentioned in the unit-based Introduction to Leadership Skills for Troops (ILST). But I agree with Stosh that this could be taken much farther. As for the ticket issue, as a Troop Guide I got to see first-hand how the tickets were accepted. And I had made a special effort to guide my patrol to include the Scouts as much as possible. In fact, the course director made a point to stress the importance of, OMG, remembering the Scouts! Great ideas, all! Keep 'em coming! LeCastor

Huh, I never thought of my fellow Scouts as emasculated by the ODLR uniform when I was a youth I certainly didn't think my Scoutmaster was emasculated by it. When I look at my first Boy Scout Handbook (9th edition updated with the ODLR uniforms) and see the drawings of Boy Scouts out in nature doing Scout-like things, I don't think of them as emasculated. However, Arrowman, I can see what you mean by the differences between the glorified Scouts in Norman Rockwell paintings juxtaposed against any Scout in real life. I guess I'm the only one who likes it. BUT a fellow Scouter found some of the tall socks at a thrift store and purchased them for me this morning--brand new! Stout, if you're lucky I'll come to your town and put on a fashion show . All that Scouting I've been doing in my ODLR uniform for the past 27 years and NOW I find out it's useless. Dang!

Welcome, Arrowman_69! Are you referring to the skill awards that went on the webbed belt during the 70s and 80s? If so, my advice to you would be to put them in a memory box. You could always present them to the Scouts you serve as a show and tell piece. They are youth awards and should be treated as such.

Seattle, just as a friendly reminder, putting email addresses--including your own--on a very public internet forum is risky and opens you and others up for potential risk. If I were you I would edit the post to remove your address and suggest that people send you a private message instead.

When I was a young Scout I dreamed of becoming an Eagle and had my future all mapped out--which badges I was going to earn and all. Then, a boy in my Troop earned Eagle and promptly turned 18, got in major trouble with the law, and ended up in prison. My view of Eagle shifted dramatically at that time and it lost the glow and glimmer it had had for me for so long. My priorities shifted and I never finished all that I had planned to do in Scouting. However, I don't regret any of it. My time in Scouting was a blast and I have friends today that I met in my Troop way back when. I still learned valuable lessons of honor and trustworthiness in Scouting. That is exactly what @dcsimmons suggests you mention to your son. By telling on the "cheater" your son might feel good in the short run, but he will gain much more by worrying about his own path in Scouting and developing those character traits that Scouting promotes.

And if you bring a telescope with you on the camping trip you can do STEM-y things like astronomy!

After staffing Wood Badge this fall, I learned that it is no longer called Wood Badge for the 21st Century. Now it's just Wood Badge. Also, I hearthere might be some more changes coming along in the next 2-3 years to give Wood Badge a new update. So here's my question: What would you like to see in an new, new Wood Badge?? Please be specific and don't say "make it like it used to be", for example , cuz I don't know what that means.

Stosh, I like to look cool AND keep the ticks away.

YES! I've been shouting this LOUDLY for a long, long, long time. I do realize that all Scouting is local and, in my particular locality, I can't recruit anymore because of the membership policy. Some gay couples have come to my Troop to visit and we welcome the Scout AND the parents. Nonetheless, our community shuts US out because we are viewed as an evil entity that won't accept gays and lesbians. It really makes me sad.

This is pretty timely from Clarke Green: http://scoutmastercg.com/the-authority-of-youth-leadership/

Unless there is a glaring safety issue at hand, I don't see why a Scout should be removed from the position he was elected to carry out. The Scoutmaster is the person who works with the Scouts on an individual level and would advise on problem-solving and potential behavior changes. I really don't expect the Committee Chair to intervene without first approaching the Scoutmaster and discussing it, and even then it's up to the Scoutmaster to take any action. There's no call to amend the Troop's by-laws. Here's an older thread about a Scoutmaster asking the "removal" question: http://www.scouter.com/forum/the-patrol-method/8830-can-a-sm-remove-the-spl-from-his-position