Laurie

I sew by hand, and for pockets, I place a piece of heavy paper in the pocket to help keep stray stitches from going through the pocket. Using a matching thread (BSA has a sewing kit w/the perfect colors) or clear nylon thread keeps the insignia looking nice--the thread is barely noticed. It just takes a little extra effort and a thimble (This message has been edited by Laurie)

Yes, Eamonn. Seven is the norm for Wolf Cubs. Eight for Bear Cubs. Nine for first-year Webelos, with some turning 10 in that second year prior to bridging and some turning 10 after bridging. I have one of each, and it all depends upon when their birthdays fall.

1) What type of scouting unit is it? Pack. 2) Do you feel you have a well functioning committee? No. 3) How many memebers are on it and what are their specific assignments? 4 MCs total with specific assignments a tough area--currently only PWD & B&G Banquet assigned to MCs. = = = And the other unit I serve: = = = = = 1) What type of scouting unit is it? Troop. I>2) Do you feel you have a well functioning committee? Yes. I went to the first meeting tonight, having recently transferred my membership from one troop to another, and serve as MC. Great team of people who work well together--what a pleasure to work with! 3) How many memebers are on it and what are their specific assignments? CC: sets agenda, this one being a list of committees/roles that were filled along with those not yet filled, and during the meeting most were filled. He also acts as service coordinator, but he asks for different parents or MCs to serve in organizing each different project. He is also very supportive of the SM, working closely with him. MCs each take on the following roles (either doing themselves or putting together a committee to handle them): Advancement, Membership, Camping Coordinator (local tour permit, secure reservations), Secretary (minutes and correspondence), Treasurer, Marketing and Recruiting, Webelos contact (4 local packs to recruit from), Newsletter, Webmaster, Adult Coaches to Librarian, Historian, QM, and Scribe, and a few others that I don't recall but did take notes on.

I have been accused falsely of something. Thankfully, for whatever reasons (I'm surprised at this), the CR, UC, and DE all blew off the accusation, knowing it was not true. However, I learned that by calling the CR first, then the UC for advice on how to proceed in the best interests of the unit with the gossip that had begun, and then the DE because the DE's name was involved by the accuser. The person making the accusation was also confronted by me--directly and immediately. That person is no longer part of the unit, nor will that person be welcomed back. Thankfully the accusation, though serious, was not about the youth. The CR, UC, and DE have remained supportive of the unit, and because of their vote of confidence in the unit as a whole and the good relationships I have with them, the unit quickly put rumor to rest. It is a non-issue now, and my son wasn't touched by it. Use the resources available, do it quickly and calmly, but do it. I might even put this into writing at this point; documenting what is taking place is a good idea, even if it's for better recall for you.

It was a beautiful morning, and I was sitting in the livingroom rocking our daughter and giving her a bottle while watching the news. Just as my husband returned from dropping the boys off at school, the first plane hit. I knew--I don't know how I knew--that this was not an accident. I was stunned and couldn't take my eyes off the tv, waiting to hear and hoping to hear that I was wrong--that somehow it might be an accident. The feelings that began to hit were such a jumble--shock, anger, helplessness, fear--and I began to run names through my head of who I might know that I should get in touch with. As the second plane crashed, I begged my husband not to go to work. He went. It was a high-rise in Center City, Philadelphia, and I was in fear all day. It was already under tight security due to the type of work; it become tougher still--but there was nothing stopping a plane from hitting that building too. I held on to the fear, cried a lot, and became rather angry. I put out the flag more, attached one to the car, and prayed more. My children didn't sleep so well for awhile after this happened. I hated how this rocked their world--how life didn't seem quite so secure and safe any longer. I found that I had trouble helping them to feel secure and safe because I understood what they felt and didn't know how to move beyond it. The questions came: why would someone do this? Will Daddy come home today? Why do people hate? Why do people kill? Will one of those planes hit us (we lived in a flight path)? Why is so quiet (when the flights were stopped)? Will it happen again? Honest answers didn't provide the peace we all were seeking. I knew we weren't completely safe, that we vulnerable and not liked by many in this world, that we had been truly lucky as well as blessed to be so free of terror of this magnitude prior to this day. That didn't lessen the horror of it actually happening. Something inside me changed, something I can't put words to. I admire and respect those who hold 9/11 memorials, who have found ways to grieve and heal and even at times to find good coming out of this, but I can't view anything relating to 9/11 without remembering cruelty, hatred, horror, and the question I asked a lot that day: "where next?" I also felt terribly guilty for having been so untouched by this, for having a family that remained safe and intact, for not having to say good-bye to anyone during that time, and for daring to feel frightened myself when this wasn't about and hadn't touched me and my family.(This message has been edited by Laurie)

I went through this with my own son as a toddler, as he saw some things taking place, and they did tend to come down to blue doing one thing and green doing another. A gentle reminder that all people are equal and that we each need to do our very best at what we do helped, but it was almost daily, at home, gentle, and bit by bit chipped away at some false beliefs he was developing. What you are attempting to do is not easy, but I think you are on the right track too and agree with the others--involve his parents. As a den leader, try to encourage him not to think of the others, blue or green, but instead to focus on doing his own personal best, on doing what he can to help his pack and his den. He may feel insecure, and when he compares himself to others, favorably or not, he will feel more insecure because he isn't seeing his own personal strengths yet. I'd encourage him, but I'd do so in a way that doesn't set him apart--know what I mean? Good luck, and hang in there.

I'm sorry, but I don't follow the fundraising of this. Having just worked on the budget and practically knowing the numbers by heart, council isn't making money on what is being charged. Has the council called it a fundraiser? The only thing I would object to is the Boys Life subscription, but that is because we promote it but treat it as optional. I love the idea of the boys getting things!

JD, no apology necessary. This kind of conversation shows various views of how people see women in leadership. foto, I won't elaborate, but it is not a unit nearby that is a problem to us but individuals who don't play nice, and we don't even consider them when recruiting. Maybe we should?? What I do know is that people in public who have seen me in uniform have made it clear that they just can't believe the BSA would do a crazy thing like let a woman lead. I figure that can hurt recruiting and that we can do something about it. Like have the CR/CC and UC and DE promote the unit. All are men, all are solidly supportive of the unit, but they are simply not known to those outside the unit.

Unc, thanks. I was just getting ready to try to bring us back to the original issue too which was: My question is this: how do you think the public views a unit with mostly women in leadership? Is this unique to us, or is it pretty common? I agree that men working with boys is not just good, but is also very important. My goal was to find out if so many women in leadership of one unit hurts the perception by the public of the unit. I know that we can and have delivered a strong program which now is simply in need of recruiting more youth--but the public doesn't know this, so they have no reason to be confident in us, male or female. It seems I felt more confident than I should have earlier in this thread, for in more recent posts, it seems that my concern was well founded after all. Since our CR/CC and UC both have expressed confidence in me repeatedly, I wonder if these 2 men could be asked to help with roundup and recruiting? Do you think that their public show of confidence in the unit would help those who might be unsure of women leading? (And though it's not ideal or recommended, the CR/CC is not able to attend most meetings, and has therefore asked me to set the agenda and keep the program going--not a problem at all, but if you're wondering why *I* ask this question, now you know )(This message has been edited by Laurie)

Thanks for the discussion! You've given me some insight I didn't have before as well as plenty of reassurance. I do think that locally this may be a problem (I honestly cannot tell you the number of negative comments I've heard, even from Scouters), but I think our leaders are awesome, the program is strong, and so with your feedback I do feel more confident in this area now.

Oh, that is so frustrating! I received info to add the 75th logo to everything, to promote it, and to plan for it for the time frame of Sept 04 through Dec 05. So I did, and I've been none too patiently waiting on info. As for the outdoor award, on an e-mail list a post from Nat'l indicated that the requirements were to be released late in August. So hopefully any day now.

Well said Bob, and I'll add to that if I may be so bold: during the waiting, the Scout has a chance to learn skills that will make the trip far better than if he were to go now. Safety makes fun even more fun!

It sounds to me as though you handled the situation well. I know of a Troop X that allows all boys, regardless of age, to go on this type of trip: rappelling, whitewater rafting, etc. by planning them itself. My son was in this troop. He asked to go to Troop Z though, and he is happy there, even though only those 14 and older (and he's not yet 14) get to go on the high adventure type trips. The difference between Troop Z and Troop X for him? He wanted consistent program, a chance to take training (Den Chief was his goal and he did it), and functioning patrols. He saw it in action, and the consistent fun activities that were his and the other boys to plan, with caring and knowledgeable adults who "stand around and do nothing but are pretty cool", and that was more fun than the 5 or 6 high adventure trips with nothing going on in between. He made a comment that was right on: "Dad could take me out to do this stuff, but I want Scouts". If you have a strong consistent program, you are delivering what you promised to deliver. If this young boy chooses to go to the other troop, just let him know he's always welcome to return. You haven't said much about the troop, but the boys can choose--and they tend to surprise us with some amazingly good choices!

Eamonn, my husband has the response: who cares what others think, though he couched his comment in slightly less polite terms. I care because we have 9 Webelos and 1 Wolf, and we are recruiting heavily. All feedback received from the boys, the families, and those we have met has been positive--with those who *know* us. When I wear my uniform in public, I've received several snide comments about women in the BSA. Same with another leader in the unit. During a training time, a man kept making terrible comments about women as leaders, and I finally had to respond, and the other men (it was all men) backed me. The attitude toward women is not always good. When it comes to recruiting, I firmly believe that our image--particularly that first impression--is very important. Thus my question. I'd like to know how others handle this--or if it's not been a problem. OGE, we began to do that last year--I would ask the committee members to stand and make sure people knew who they were. Thanks, I'll do that more often.(This message has been edited by Laurie)

Most of the "visible" leadership in the pack is women. Me as CM, 3 women and 1 man as den leaders. The committee is pretty much unknown to the pack, but it is mostly men. What this means is that looking at this pack, it seems to be led by all women. Now, I know that BSA policy is in favor of women in all leadership roles, and I believe women are very capable leaders. I also know that we can't change what we've got because the men didn't want to lead, so the women were asked and did. My question is this: how do you think the public views a unit with mostly women in leadership? Is this unique to us, or is it pretty common?

Wow, that's an interesting problem. We just held a follow-up planning meeting for the pack, and because we could use the DE's help, as CM I sent him the name and contact info for each person handling popcorn, recruiting, etc. Maybe doing this for your DE will help her to know who to contact. Send that sort of info to her regularly since she uses e-mail, and ask her if she has met some leaders that she would identify as particularly good at certain things. What you've done is two things: shown her that you've got the bases covered *and* shown her that you'd appreciate and welcome her input too.

Our council is holding a training on internet rechartering. The problem with timing is that this is the same day as 3 other council events (one a training) as well as the day of district trainings. Ouch! I'm looking forward to it. Last year is the first year I handled recharter, and the internet will allow--I hope--for an easier way to deliver the recharter. That was a problem last year for the unit, and from what I hear, has been. As for cyber Scouting--I sure hope not! The way I view the internet is that it helps me do in off hours the busy stuff that could interfere with doing fun stuff with the kids

Yep, the resources are great. But never ever offer them unless asked for them! We have a nice Scouting library at home now, and it's available for our sons to use anytime. We put the books out of reach of the baby (who seems to use them most!), and then I told the boys they may use them any time, just to please be sure to return them when finished with them. They occassionally get used, but occassionally is better than before when I'd suggest the book and they acted like it would be poisonous to touch. So, having some tools handy that they can choose to use does help at times. Now, another thing that works with us is this, and the dinner table is one good place, a hike is another, depending on the Scouting-related topic (grown-up issues don't get discussed with a baby in earshot). I have actually asked the boys how they would handle situations I've come across. Nothing that would give personal info about anyone else in Scouts, but general scenarios in areas in which I personally am learning. What this does is open the door to them helping (kids have great insights) and also gets them thinking about situations and realizing that seeking advice is good (by example they see this) and at times leads to them presenting something for discussion. Just some thoughts

Thank you for the info. I've been following this thread with the hopes that the Scout was found and well. Prayers are definitely lifted here for him.

This is pretty typical, at least in my experience working with youth from age pre-k through college age. One thing that has become a practice for me is to be involved with what my children are involved in, but not with them directly. I also spoke to my Cub son before accepting the CM position; I asked him how he would feel about that type of involvement from his mom. No problem--he loved it. He also liked that I asked him about it. However, I do not do anything directly with him. As for other leaders who mentioned problems with their sons, I made a suggestion that has worked: have another leaders assume responsibility for your child. That said, you seem to have done that. But, did you talk to the SM? And does your know or even suspect that you might be the reason that the SM is supporting him? If so, he may not believe that the SM is being genuine but is instead supporting *you* in supporting your son. Knowing something wasn't quite right for our older son, and both of us were involved in that troop, we were incredibly frustrated when we knew we needed to let him make choices and just wait. He's younger than your son, but he made some incredibly difficult choices, excellent choices that we are very proud of, but it took him meeting some other adults in leadership position who took a genuine interest in him without us having anything to do with it. What a difference it made for him because *he* was the one with the relationships now, and this met his desire for independence. He asked us to be involved, but he does prefer some distance, and we're ok with that. Every once in awhile, since my husband and I are both leaders in both units that our sons are in, we ask them how things are--if they're ok with the amount of time we give them or if they'd like more or less of it. Hang in there--you sound concerned, and your son sounds normal. Maybe you're being challenged now in what I think the hardest part of parenting is: waiting on our children to ask for help they need.

We've had two unit commissioners, though not at the same time. The first was a great guy, knowledgeable, really great with kids, working in various aspects of leadership in a troop, a pack, and in the district, and he was stretched so thin he truly didn't have time to help us out. I felt really bad for him when I got to know him, but I also knew that we badly needed advice, so it was a tough spot to be in. Then a unit commissioner actually wanted our unit; it's a unit that he lives close to, that he has seen in action many times and felt he could help out. So a change was made. The new UC doesn't have oodles of time either, but the difference is that he is not working within a troop, a pack, and at the district level. He seems to know less of what is taking place in the district than the former UC, but he is willing to find out what is taking place. He and I recently had a meeting to review the pack's progress last year, the ups and the downs, and for us to work out a plan for the coming year. The CC was there too. It was a great meeting, but I went prepared with questions. At the conclusion of the meeting, he told me he realizes now that he needs some more training It's been awhile for him, but you know what? His willingness to advise, to seek out advice when he doesn't feel qualified to answer on his own, to continue his own training, to always follow through, to take time to care about the needs of the pack, to point out weak areas and give suggestions on improving them, to praise the strengths, and to come to events whenever possible--that kind of support is priceless. Is one better than the other? I used to think so, but as I learn more, I realize that this unit was needy, and that put pressure on the UCs, so it was more of a unit problem than a UC problem. One who is more accessible was simply a better fit. Not a better person/commissioner. And the DC recognized this, so she did a great job in working things out with the UCs. Our UC has become a friend to the unit, to me and even to one of my sons and our littlest one by age 2, and he cares about people and seeing units succeed to meet needs, not to make numbers. Commissioner service, IMO, in this district, is alive and well though filled with extremely busy people.

This past year was pretty exciting to me because the Cubs and their families really liked the items planned for the pack. Everything that was done came as a combination of two things: training and listening to what the Cubs wanted to do. Now, we found out that many of the Cubs love service projects. In 3 months, the families (usually 3-4 Cub & sibling/parent combinations), recorded 80 hours of service time for Good Turn For America in just under 3 months. For a small pack, that's pretty decent IMO. This was spring. Heading into summer, we knew having summer activities would be a challenge, and we knew that some boys felt left out last year because they couldn't come to some events. We came up with a list of things that families could do with flexibility and that were consistent with what Cubs is all about: BSA Family Award, Presidents Challenge, Operation Pocket Change. Though there is enthusiasm about all items mentioned (which gets them put on the official "pack project list"), very few take part in any of these. I can see that we may be doing too much. I can see that those who felt left out still didn't take part in programs that were very flexible and would keep them included. I am too close to this to be objective. When does a unit reach the "too much to do/choose from" point? The committee is in favor of all this and more with the exception of my husband who feels too many choices leads to confusion. The choices came about because of interests expressed by the pack families. So I see both sides of this. Your thoughts?

Twocubdad, you know I haven't a lot of experience here, but I wonder if you could recruit two more parents to work in the existing den as leaders, let them gain some confidence working with the current leaders, and then have the den divide. Perhaps that would lessen the anxiety? Have the parents been made aware that this size den is not in the best interest of the boys? My guess is that you have, but I'd be curious to hear their objections. We have a small pack. As we approached spring and the normal decline in attendance due to baseball, we decided to try something new. It seemed brilliant at the time. With an average of 10 boys tops attending meetings, we had all dens meet the same night and combined several activities. The leaders thought this would give them a break in sharing the planning, that the boys would enjoy the games that a larger group can play, that the den of one would not feel quite so odd. Well, it didn't work well. None of the leaders want to do it again. The boys in each den pretty much stayed with only boys in their den, the leaders worked twice as hard because communication was not very clear, and the skill levels of some crafts meant Webelos flew through items that younger Cubs had fun with but took longer at finishing. So, our experiment didn't work very well. Also, a problem we have that we are working to fix is that we have two nights available at the CO to us (maybe only one this year), but we have a goal of 5 decent-sized dens. There is one room that may be used by all. I would drop by to see how things were going or to lend a hand to a den leader who asked, and meeting at the same time doing different things is rough. This year, I have encouraged the den leaders to schedule tool nights at the same time, to schedule quieter activities at the same time, etc. I could see your bear den splitting and coming together, but if they are in the same room, I'd caution you with this particular challenge we face. Good luck! What a great problem to have!

Summer camp and soda--oh boy, don't get me started on that! My son left for summer camp this year, having had only an occassional soda during the first 12 years of his life. By occassional, he could go a month or longer without having any soda of any kind. He loves water, milk, and juice, and we only keep 100% fruit juice around, figuring we'll get the healthy stuff in where we can. He comes home from summer camp hooked on Mountain Dew. He couldn't get enough of it, and boy did we have trouble getting him to limit it--we were at yet another camp with a vending machine, thus the difficulty limiting it. Oh well... Now those energy drinks. My physical therapist and my sports med doc both told me that these are not necessary, that the very best thing to drink is water. They gave lenghty reasons about nutrition and so on, but I like the advice about teaching the boys to see what is in these drinks and to understand the nutritional value. It is possible they think they are doing something good for themselves (and no, my son did not think he was doing something good for himself with Mountain Dew--it was just simply good ), and it ties in nicely with Scouting and fitness. Just my 2 1/2 cents.

Excellent point EagleinKY. I think we need to teach the Scouts how to handle situations like this too. I am deeply saddened and even angry that I learned of things that youth didn't know how to deal with. This left me, as one hearing it third-hand, unable to do much (though doing nothing was not an option), but it also provided a teachable moment. I have not yet seen the YP for youth; does it address some of what has been discussed here from a youth's point of view?