Laurie

Thank you, Bob. This was not clear to me in the insignia guide.

I've no advice to offer, but thanks for sharing the story of your son's level headedness and quick thinking. You must be very proud as well as relieved that all worked out well.

Purcelce ~ same here on the ID issue. This was the first time I had voted at this polling place, so I had my driver's license out, held it out to show it, but I was told it wasn't necessary. My husband voted later in the day, and he experienced the same thing. We found it odd that ID wasn't checked; it only takes a second to do.(This message has been edited by Laurie)

There were people giving out literature right up to the entrance of the polling place today--no way to avoid them. Five hands held items out to me at the same time. Kind of ironic--none of it was for the folks I was voting for. Private christian school was a polling place until a couple years ago when there wasn't room for polling and education. Several churches around here are used. I voted at a firehouse today--first time it was someplace other than a religious place. Never gave it a thought until now though.

Does this apply to Den Chief too?

First, I should tell you that I'm only slightly involved on a troop committee and my husband is a new SA, so our experience is very limited. Here are resourses that we personally have used: For planning... * The Scoutmaster Handbook provides pages that may be copied and filled in, so it's useful that way *and* in that it has plenty of info too. Our copy was getting a little ragged, so we put it in a 3-ring binder (1" is perfect and leaves just enough room to add a little notebook paper). * My husbands always has a copy of the Scout Handbook with him--has found it very useful and it's quite ragged too. * Small easy-to-carry or pack 3-ring notebook with extra paper and pens (someone always forgets these items). For planning trips, outings, events: * Guide To Safe Scouting * Health and Safety * Merit badge booklets relating to the event For BOR and advancement related items: * Advancement Policies and Procedures * Insignia Guide (the Scouts called our home to ask about insignia when they realized we had this ) * The book we have that we use the least (and I thought I'd use the most) is the Troop Committee Guidebook. Our son, though not a patrol leader and not an active den chief, has often read through--with interest--the Patrol Leader, Senior Patrol Leader, and Den Chief handbooks. Each has been useful to my husband as well in understanding the youth leadership role. For the pack, and I understand that troops have this too, I keep a copy of Fast Start handy to share. A 3-ring binder can hold several of the above books easily, and it helps to protect them if handled a lot. I'm coming at this from a pack perspective trying to understand a troop, so I hope something here is helpful.(This message has been edited by Laurie)

Unc, I had to chuckle when I read this thread. Not because it's funny, but because of the reaction I got when I asked a couple of questions about the info on the app of the leadership when we enrolled our sons. I was asked, "you actually READ that? No one does." I didn't get the answers, not locally anyway, but I do now make a point of putting those pages into parents' hands and encouraging them to read them and feel free to ask me questions about them at any time. When the den leaders hand me apps after meetings or bring them to my home, I keep the pages and give them to parents at a later date--the next time I see them. Thanks for the reminder of how important these pages are.(This message has been edited by Laurie)

When the leaders are trained, start out in the year planning a program with shared goals, but a division comes about (some leaders simply like their own way better), it doesn't matter who is trained and using their training and who isn't. What matters is that the leadership is not functioning as a team, the ability to apply what has been learned is hindered. I've been reading more than posting lately, and one think I've been trying to figure out for myself is how to regain unity when a unit is losing it. Training--at least the training received by me to date--doesn't cover that problem.

This can work, but one thing not yet mentioned is this: how long is everyone willing to work at the change that may be coming soon? I know of a unit that wanted change, worked for change, got everything in order as it should be, but it was hard and the leadership was just plain tired and enthusiasm dropped as it headed into the next year. The result? Time for change all over again as leaders seek replacements, new leaders need to get trained, and everyone adjusts. It is very important that those involved in leadership want the change (better program, consistency, communication) or it won't happen and/or last.

Well, I suggested wearing uniforms on a Cub overnighter, but everyone thought I was nuts. Reasons: they'll get lost, dirty (???), damaged.

Nuts? Yep, definitely As to being good at something in Scouting, I'd revise that--for me--to trying to learn to be good at something in Scouting. That's what brought me here, led me to training, had me hit the books--a desire and the desperation to figure out what the heck I'm doing.

Yes, but I've no reference for you. This was suggested to us during roundtable I believe when the pack had low numbers in some dens. It worked well. However, the Bears and Wolfs each had their own number and leader; they simply met together due to small numbers.

I took a look too and would make the same recommendations about full names and photo permission. Overall, it's a nice site--well done. I'm not sure how to password protect a site, but maybe someone else can guide you. Is Hops around?? The nesting. I have a frames site, and just in case you don't know how to link to a page so that it doesn't nest, here's how: type target=_new after the closing quote of the url you are linking to Hope this helps.(This message has been edited by Laurie)

Do you have a copy of the Program Helps? A short prayer is included for each month, and it is related to the theme. For instance, December 2003 was themed "A Cub Scout Gives Goodwill", and the prayer for the opening ceremony was: "Dear God, be with us as we gather this evening at the pack meeting. Help us remember that we should always strive to help other people and give goodwill wherever we go, for that is the Cub Scout way. Amen." November 2003 was themed "Pilgrims of Plymouth Rock", and the prayer for that was: "Thank you for loved ones and friends that are near, for food and for love and for life, and the spirit of Scouting that's here. Amen." I'll share with you how we have added prayer. Prayer was introduced to our pack last year, and it was because of the program helps making it simple and relevant (not all leaders were sure we should have prayer until it was seen in the program helps, which is a BSA publication). What we do is write these down or type them in very large print and the boys read them. Many of the boys in the pack struggle with reading and/or memory work, so we keep it simple and focus on having the prayer rather than having the prayer memorized.(This message has been edited by Laurie)

KS, this should be easy, but on other message boards, I've read of people struggling with it. I've logged this unit on, and I've now entered several projects with no problems. Without the unique Unit ID assigned to you by council, you cannot log on, so do follow up. It is the DE who provided each unit in this district a card with the district name, Unit ID #, unit number, unit name and location. That is what I used to log in. If you have not asked for a specific number, ask for the "Unit ID" for your unit. Good luck. Once in the system, it's quick and easy to use.

CA = Assistant Cubmaster.

Great idea, but what about cost? What BSA already offers is rather high, but the idea is very appealing. BP--I had to laugh at the going to school smelling like smoke comment. When our son earned his Fireman Chit, he was given permission to build a fire circle, and we don't just have smokey smelling coats on Mondays any longer

When I became CA, the pack was meeting from mid-September to the end of February or the first week of March. There was a summer picnic and sometimes a carwash. That has changed to Cubs running weekly from early September to the first week of June, with camping each month plus another pack activity scheduled each month. This has pros and cons. The pros are that those who like the weekly meetings (three den meetings, 1 pack meeting, so we don't have two meetings in one week) tend to thrive on the consistency. The cons are that those who struggle to make it to meetings (homework, other family obligations, sports, etc) tend to drop away because it becomes too much. Half the den leaders like weekly; half want fewer meetings. Troop meetings. The troop my son was formerly in met all year. However, it was more of a social time that a program time, which appealed to some but not to others (thus former ). Year-round weekly meetings was a plus to all those who came. The pros are that those who missed meetings during a particular sports season or during band competitions had a good portion of the year to attend still. Also, it allowed for a consistent program to take place so that momentum could ideally keep going rather than drop off. The troop my son is in now has found summer to be difficult for meetings; therefore, it meets during the school year with summer camp and maybe one or two other events during the summer. This too has pros and cons. The pros are that the program is strong, and sticking to the school year is the time that most can attend. Advancement takes place regularly, even over the summer when meetings drop off. The cons are that it's easier to lose interest. This is my experience. How about others?

As a former bookkeeper, and also having served as chairman of the board and treasurer to local non-profits, I suggest caution and discretion. Within a unit, I would not go to the families, but I'd instead be sure the CO was aware of this and gave guidance or took over. In the event they don't want to take over, I'd ask for specific direction/advice on moving forward. Give them the opportunity here, and make sure you don't move forward without doing so--at least not any more than you have already. Second, regardless of where this type of question comes up, this is a very serious charge. What prompted the turn over of the records? And what accountability (for the CO, unit and the protection of the person handling the funds) was in place? What type of account was this (it isn't clear in your post)? I don't expect this to be answered here as you may not be able to provide details publicly. However, even cash can often be accounted for. Bank statements are valuable tools to use to track incoming and outgoing funds, particularly if the funds aren't clear. A cash withdrawal on the bank account held by one unit I serve requires a completed withdrawal slip with ID and signatures from two authorized users. Though it doesn't show the use of the funds, it does show the cash withdrawal amounts AND who withdrew the funds. Then comparing them against receipts, then against the known expenses (ie sometimes a receipt does get lost--but an advancement form shows the cost of one purchase), and moving forward in that manner--to eliminate every possible question mark from the records--can show two things: deliberate wrong doing or sloppy handling of records.

Thanks ScoutNut. I overlooked the obvious--the app.

I'm sorry--I meant just on the parent (or other adult) who would serve as Tiger partner. We were told that person goes on the roster, and I can see all sorts of confusing things coming along then--like, what if the partner changes? New app? Or what if there is just a different adult partner for one night? I don't get it, but it's what was explained in detail, with emphasis on needing those two apps for the same person, just prior to fall recruiting. We have not had any problems getting the apps because it has been explained that it's simply for the safety of the children, but we have many adults go camping with their children who have never filled out an app. Seems like a big oversight to me, but maybe I'm making it too hard??

This is interesting because last year we were told by the DE that we must submit a completed adult app for every Tiger parent in addition to the Tiger app. We were told that no money was collected, that the parent would not be considered a leader, but that the only way the adult partner would go on the roster was with that app. Is there a reference that I could run by him as adults do question the need for duplicate info--a fair question IMO. And if the leader is not comfortable with the unit having the info, can't the SS # be submitted by the leader (assuming a leadership position is being applied for) directly to council verbally rather than putting it on the app?

Eamonn, you named some things leaders need to remember: Find out what your skills are and what you like doing and do it well. Scouting is for boys...Our job as Scout Leaders is to provide a Scouting Program for the youth in the program...not to save the world or the families of the Scouts. Training Never Ends. Check your Resources...Parents...the Chartered Organization and other Organizations...stores have helped them out with craft supplies. Take or Make Time to See where you want to go. Set long term plans and short term plans... Every now and then take time to reflect how things are going. Communicate, Communicate, Communicate!! Be willing to listen. I can talk, but I've got to learn to listen more. Know the youth you are serving. I can't think of anything better than those moments when I get to see a boy excited over his accomplishments, particularly when he tries something new and challenging. Be open to criticism and correction. However, know that some just like to complain--but be aware of it all and sort through it to see if there is something new to be learned. Step out of your comfort zone using the resources that have worked for so many in years past. Being silly at a Cub Scout pack meeting is great fun if one is willing to be laughed at--remember it's for the boys. Not very good at confrontation? Be willing to go to the right person, uncomfortable as it is, when you see something that could harm the youth. Admit you don't have all the answers. Be willing to seek them out. I'm not sure that I can ever accurately assess my own leadership skills, for I'm not objective enough. What I do know is that I love serving and the focus must always be on the youth, with the attention I give to my own self being that of "how can I better put into practice what I have learned". When it comes to the youth, they are really good barometers and don't usually exercise tact, so we'll get a good read from them--perhaps the most important one of all.

What is the goal in the motivation you provide? That may sound like an odd question, but it is one that I am planning on bringing up a pack committee meeting this month. It's been awhile since we actually reminded one another of our purpose, and here is what some leaders are saying they are trying to motivate the boys to do: (1) earn Arrow of Light, (2) develop confidence in themselves, (3) earn all activity badges before bridging, (4) stay together after bridging so they can stay with the leaders, (5) try out something new in their handbooks, (6) make sure all the boys do all the activities, and (7) to create an environment free from bullying. My concern is that the motivation in this unit be appropriate for Cub Scouting. I'm not convinced that all of the above goals that leaders are trying to motivate the boys to accomplish are healthy goals. So, in this troop you serve, what sorts of issues might you have to overcome? My own experience in 3 different units now, troop and pack, are that each has different goals and therefore a different way of motivating the youth. And, you mention that the youth have no input. Have they planned outings before? Perhaps they don't know what to plan or how to plan. Perhaps they are unaware of the opportunities they can create with the leaders' help. I'm glad you're working on this and hope things work out.

Without quality leaders, I'm not sure we can have a quality program. My experience is limited, but I know boys who love Scouting but don't feel comfortable/safe with the adult leaders. Therefore, they don't go to the program. My belief is that the program suffers when the leaders putting it into place are not quality leaders. And maybe I should define what I mean by quality: willing to follow the program, to get trained, to put the boys' needs first. There will be, IMO, varying degrees of quality.