LauraT7

We call ours "Merit Badge Opoortunity Days" and they run for 6 weeks, meet 3 times - every other saturday. A list of offered badges is given out, and the boys sign up - listing up to 3 badges and alternates(in case classes overfill) Badge classes meet for about 1 hour each of the three saturdays. this gives time to teach at one meeting, and test two-4 weeks later. Also if there is outside work to be done, the boys can work on it at home and return it later to th4e badge counselor to be signed off. they also know what they are signed up for AHEAD of time - so pre-requisits can be completed before meeting with the counselor (things like going to a city council meeting, or keeping a 90 day chore chart) The first year they did this, about 3 yrs ago - they were BURIED with boys. I think they expected about 100 and got somewhere in the neighborhood of 400. At that time they didn't pre-register individual boys, only troops. Some boys thought it was going to be really easy, and that badges were just going to be handed out - many didn't want to work at the badges and by the 2nd and Third saturday, about 1/3 had dropped out. This year they are trying something new. In the fall they had a MBOD that was a variety of badges ans open to ALL scouts. In the spring, they are doing one that is ALL Eagle-required badges, and is open only to scouts First Class ans above. My son has chosen to go to some MBOD's and not to others - it depends on what badges they are offering. Our experience with the badge counselors is that this is NOT a merit badge mill, and most are very good. All know their stuff, though the first few, some were not that good at managing large 'classes' of boys. My general opinion of the counselors involved is that they put alot of time and effort into their presentations & classes, and they want the boys to REALLY KNOW the work. There's some real talent and skiled people out there - I wish I could have taken some of those classes! I will be teaching for the first time at the Spring/Eagle MBOD - i filled in for a friend on the photography badge at the last one, when he got sick and couldn't teach his 2nd class. I had a ball! and the boys were REALLY into it. My friend asked me to return for the third class, to help him check and sign blue cards - and both of us were very strict about it. The boy had to have actually DONE the WHOLE requirement, or he didn't get it signed off. About 1/3 of the class got partials. Two boys asked if they could meet with me later(they were waiting for developed film) and I met them at their troop meeting. Quite a few asked if I would counsel the badge for their troop, and we are working on setting up an individual 'class' for 3 troops in another town nearby. so I think merit badge colleges work well to gain the interest of the boys and get them exposed to opportunities they may not otherwise have access to. laura

I agree that the troops should not be specialized - if a PATROL chooses to specialize it's emphasis within the troop - that's fine - by the time they get into a regular patrol, they should have enough different experiences to make a choice about what their favorites are, and if they chose to do mostly back packing, or canoeing, or whatever - that's great. But what does a 12 yr old know about what he wants? most cubs don't get much chance to camp and as first-year scouts they are working on building their skills. if they aren't given opportunities to TRY different things, how can they make a choice on what the really like or don't like? I taught my son from a young age 'leave no trace' principles - even when we used our pop-up with it's electric lights and foam beds, in a campground with flush toilets and water hook-ups - we always took care not to do any additional damage & left a site better than we found it. But we have an ASM in our troop who thinks 'leave no trace' ALWAYS means specialist, minimalist equipment, lightweight stoves and freeze-dried food. and NEVER any campfires! I once spent the longest night of my life on a winter campout with this guy - when it's -10, cloudy, windy and the sun goes down at 4:30, there's not much else to DO but get in your warm sleeping bag! - the boys were bored! If we had a campfire, we could have at least stayed warm enough to socialize and tell stories, (It was too cloudy, windy and cold for a star hike). and While I can usually sleep anytime, I can't stay in a mummy bag for 10 or 12 hours! I think there's alot of room in between these two kinds of camping for ALOT of variety - and i think there's value in learning to tailor your program and equipment choices based on different kinds of camping - they ALL have value. While few LIKE hauling extra 'stuff', that 'stuff' provides learning experiences and opportunities for the boys - putting up a group shelter, having a full axe-yard, cooking over campfires AND different kinds of stoves - using Cardboard ovens, stovetop ovens and dutch ovens - just making choice of how elaborate their campsite is, teaches them how to prioritize and organize. EVERYTHING is a learning experience! Once the boys have experienced a variety of things, THEY can choose to do what THEY like. laura

First, survey boys, leaders, staff and parents as to what THEY think is FUN at camp? More swimming? more boating? Waterskiing? Sailing? animals in the nature hut? a ropes course or climbing wall? Metalworking? leathercraft? Cooking? putting on a play? free time to swing in a hammock? biking? wilderness survival? Try to think OUTSIDE the typical camp offerings of outdoor merit badges & advancement only. Take inventory of your staff's skills, interests and abilities. While you are surveying, take inventory of current camp facilities, space, equipment. Repair the good and TOSS the bad (Boy scouts are BAD at keeping junk around!) Make sure basic comforts are met - campsites cleared, level spots for tents or repair platforms and place them in patrol groupings, latrines are in good shape,decent showers, Shelters for rainy days would be really nice at both the campsites and activitiy areas. (we just spent a whole week at camp in the rain - not fun with no shelters!) Kitchen is equipped, great meals are planned (boys are HUNGRY!!) and please, take the 63 varieties of CANDY, Pop and Pizza out of the trading post!?!? Have decent snacks available - what boy eats only 3 meals a day? put in sandwich, drink and fruit machines, some sweet stuff, but not enough that they eat nothing but junk. let the troops ORDER a snack for mid afternoon or before bedtime, if they wish. Keep in mind 2 things - a rested, well-fed camper is a happy camper, and offer LOTS of choices in activities - the only UNAVAILABLE choice is to be bored - a tired camper sleeps well. Take the three groups of information, and work out a program that is what the boys WANT to do. Fill out the staff with skills you don't already have, and train them ALL in more than one area, for flexibility between sessions. Make sure they understand the BSA program and how to council merit badges. Use the information you gathered and plans for program to expand and fix up your facility appropriately to house and equip the program. Offer BSA training programs for the adult leaders that give them time with and away from their troops. Offer fun things of interest for them, too - they are often giving up hard-earned vacation time to the boys. yes, they WANT to be there - but they need some adult time and breaks, too. Lastly - as you are building and training and creating this program - LOOK at the BSA advancement requirements, and the BSA merit badges. See where program areas and ideas might mesh with the requirements. Remember that Scouting is a 'game with a purpose' - pick the activities FIRST and match them to merit badges second. Set up intermediate goals and rewards for the boys to 'earn' by participation in the program, whether or not they earn rank or badges - a patch or hat, etc. Look at your new programs activities and areas, and see what things they have planned that fit with BSA rank advancements. use this as the base for your 'first class express' program. Fill in or change activities slightly to mesh with needed requirements. Give a reward or acknowledgement of reaching a goal here, too - even if they don't make all the requirements for a rank. if a certain program area's activities can fulfill MOST requirements for a badge, find out what is needed to offer the remaining requirements and implement it, if at all possible - don't leave the boys hanging with partials because they COULD NOT be completed. Do not make everything merit badge 'classes'. Some things, for safety reasons, have to be scheduled into group sizes and times for safety - waterfront activities and shooting sports, particularly, come to mind. But make program areas mostly open - a boy can simply putz around, wander through activities as his whim directs, and have fun, spending his whole week in one or two areas, or he can work through as many requirements as he wants - Working on one badge a day, or few badges, a little every day. Schedules are for school - not camp. Camp should feel FREE. Camp should be a universe unto itself - a magic place where time slows down and adults don't interfere, and the chance to climb a wall (or a tree), sail a boat, and do fun stuff you can't find in your own backyard. Merit badges and rank advancements should be a side effect of all the interesting things to do - they are the method and not a goal in themselves. Laura

Scouting membership in TROOPS is not regulated by location, nor does being in a certain "pack" mean you MUST go up to a certain 'troop'. ('feeder packs' are common, but noting in BSA says you MUST go from the same CO's pack to their troop) Boys are encouraged by national to 'shop' for a troop that fits their needs - regardless of it's location or charter organization affiliation. logically, it would follow that packs are open to membership by choice, also. I can see that recruiting habits and tradition might establish that if you attend "X" school that you then join "X" pack - but as far as I can find out there is no BSA rule that says a pack or troop MUST accept particular group members. If there are no other packs in the area that he can join, you have to ask yourselves if you want to deny a boy the opportunity for scouting just to keep his parents in line. If there ARE no other packs he can join, you might invite him back - but have a group of adults make it very clear to the parents that their interferance will not be tolerated. Now the flip side of this is that the pack and troop are OWNED by the charter organization - which is often a school or church. The charter organization 'may' have the right to demand that you accept their members, but I really don't think they have that right either - or else they could force you to accept girls or gays, or even little green martians! I think your "council rep" is wrong - and what is a 'council rep' anyway? this is term I haven't heard. Are you talking about your Charter Organization Rep? or your District Commissioner? or something else? Where's Bob White? Or Dave Steele? I'll bet they know the guide for this! Laura

The boys in our troop use Mr. or Mrs. Even our SM's son calls him Mr. Lastname while in uniform. I have told them they can call me Mrs. T or Mrs. lastname. I prefer Mrs T - and in a casual setting, like at a meeting or camoput, the boys generally use that. My son's friends use that also, when they are over at our house or I see them at school when I was younger and my son was younger, I had everyone, including his friends, call me by my first name alone. I'm an informal kind of person, and "mrs. Lastname" makes me think of my ex-mother-in-law, not ME! heck i didn't like being 'mrs Lastname' even when I was married, as it made me feel older even then! But having children use my first name became uncomfortable, not for me - but for the kids and their family - who were trying to teach their kids to treat an adult with respect by using a title. It confused the kids. Problem is, i don't LIKE my last name. I'm long divorced and kept the name on the advice of my parents, for simplicity regarding the school, Dr's, etc identifying me and my son as parent and child. Now, 11 years later, I realize this is not as big a deal as my conservative family made it out to be - and I have often thought of switching back to my maiden name. I also don't like "Ms Laura" - it sounds like a pre-school teacher or something - yuch. Mrs. T suits me just fine. since the adults are used to calling each other by first names - when we talk to the boys, we will often say - 'turn your popcorn money in to paul lastname' (or Mr. Lastname). laura

ManyIrons: the links are GREAT! I had to laugh when I saw the "hitching post" one - because our troop HAS one of these! Ours is mounted on a box that we do store our ropes in, it also stores the candle log and other ceremonial equipment. It does not have the eyelets that would allow for the tautline hitches, etc - they may have never been installed, or they might have been removed so people could sit on the box comfortably - I'll have to look for holes next time I am in the troop room. Our troop is very old, and we have alot of stuff whose use has been lost to past generations. We always thought this thing was something built like a 'bridge' to use at crossovers, despite it's being very narrow. We DO use it for knots, as the crossposts are very handy. But Taut line is one our boys are very poor at, and adding those eyelets would make a perfect practice example. so I'm gonna see if we can do that! Thanks!

tells you how much i know about sports - doesn't it! LOL! ;-)

EagleInKY - I agree with all you said - and given the chance, I would (and have) done the same as you, and talked to the camp staff & program director, right then and there while still at camp about the problems with the merit badge counselor changing the badge and not giving the boys the opportunities intended by the badge. but apparently, you and I attend camp and know the program well enough to challenge discrepancies where necessary. How would you handle it if, like the original poster, the discrepancies with the counselor didn't come to light until camp was over and you could not talk to the counselor or camp staff and correct it on the spot? Even though I know that the MB can't be revoked - I would still like to have a talk with the boys and help them see the error of the situation. I would encourage them to complete the questionable requirements PROPERLY, and would help them find the means to do it, if necessary. I would want to head off the idea that they start to LOOK for 'easy' badges and counselors just to accumulate badges. Acco40 - you don't have to BUY 'blue cards' from your council, you can print your own - many troops and camps do - and many aren't even blue! i think they even have them in Troopmaster - certainly they are available online as an Adobe file. Ed - "why wouldn't the Scout use the approved MB counselor he was given by his SM?" Apparently there are many councils and districts like ours, where the MB counselors lists are either obsolete or non-existant. A boy may be given a name off a list, but not get a reply, find the counselor no longer counsels, or has even died. The lists are so bad here, that we get more information by searching ourselves - someone puts the word out that one of their boys wants to do "Law" or 'Plumbing' and the verbal network gets the word back of the name of someone in the county who counsels - it may or may not be through the boy's actual SM. counselors for some subjects are easy to find - others can be extrememly difficult! Laura

Thanks for the update on your poll - that's some interesting info - I think I'm gonna save it somewhere, it might come in useful someday. As I had said, our troops only attempt at NSP failed last year, because WE (the adults)failed to properly support and plan a program for it. As Bob pointed out - this has affected our retention. We got 8 new Webelos last year - 3 have left the troop and one is practically inactive. He may come back after football - but I doubt it. I have asked our SM if I could be the advisor to the NSP - I like the younger boys, and I think my son will do better if I am NOT the advisor to his patrol any longer. Our SM hasn't 'decided' - but I think he's going to go for the idea. We have a couple of older boys that would be great at being a Troop guide or instructor - if THEY had a little support in the job. I think with a plan and support, it WILL work. Laura

Ed, FOG, Eagle in KY, Will someone please tell me exactly where you are getting the idea that the SM 'approves' or 'assigns' a MB counselor to the boy? I have checked the boy's handbook, A guide to Merit Badge Counseling, and the SM handbook and they all use exactly the same verbage: "obtain from your SM a signed MB application and the name of a qualified counselor for that MB" it does NOT say that the SM "approves" the counselor. the only difference is that the adult books say 'obtain from HIS SM..." as they are not talking to the scout. I think bad verbal info has gotten passed around so much that people are taking it as the truth. there is also nothing that tells me the boy can't find a MB counselor on his own - tho something in my gut tells me that he should at least TELL his SM that he has found one already or could not make contact with the name(s) he was given. Obviously, whenever we send boys off to summer camp, no one knows the NAMES of the couselors for all the badges ahead of time! ____________ Eagle in KY - in your camp situation, you did the boys and the camp a service by pointing out the problem of the unqualified MB counselor. BUT - if that counselor was handed that job suddenly on SUNDAY - I doubt he was a registered counselor, anyway. sounds like someone (not you) goofed on many levels at that camp and your boys got shorted. But you also set an example for your boys - they learned that you had higher expectations of them and that you would follow thru in making things right. However,it would bother me that you think it would be some kind of 'strain' on the boys to have a discussion in a SM conference about their not dong the requirements for a badge. A SM conference shouldn't be a big thing, nor should it be reserved for advancement and discipline - just pull the guys aside and have a heart-to heart! If you come off as an authority figure to them, they are going to treat you as such and be automatically defensive - you've backed them into a corner. But if you have a relationship where you can just sit and talk something out with them - most of them will come to their own conclusion that getting 'handed' the badge is not serving anyone. Our SM is particularly good at this - and has set the tone for all the other ASM's in our troop. I have seen troops that 'micro manage' their boys at camp and march them from badge station to badge station in groups, handing out blue cards and collecting them at the end of class, reminding them of what they need to work on, and not to forget ther pencils, clipboards and sweaters..... I'd think if the boys wanted to go to summer school - they'd have picked real school where at least there was air conditioning! how is 'monitoring' their work in this way different from a counselor handing them a requirement or two? Aren't you calling the pot calling the kettle black? Is the point of earning a badge and being at camp to LEARN and EXPLORE? or is it to do the required schoolwork, with as little depth and as much speed as possible, collect your 'report card' (the completed badge card) and quickly go score up another? we have to remember that there are SOME boys who are motivated by competition and they will push themselves to 'get as many as possible, as fast as possible' - they don't really care about the subject - they just want to up their scorecard. Then there are those whe really want a particular goal and are willing to work for it - they may spend all week doing saiboating - really, really well. Then there are those who only want to work on ONE area, Boating, or nature - and they don't particularly care if they do two requirements here and 4 for another badge there, as long as they are intensely involved in something. I had one boy in camp this summer, who wants to be a chef - he took Cooking merit badge - which was a totaly different area of camp than the camp kitchen. yet every spare minute, he was in the kitchen, doing dishes, setting up - by the end of the week he was helping serve up meals. He had a ball! and learned far more than any badge requirements. Next summer he's applied for kitchen staff. where is there room for these boys who 'hear their own drummer' in your micro-managed plan with all those adult sub-counselors?

I like the jepardy one, too - and it would give the different skill levels all a chance to shine - some that know some really odd knots could show what they've learned and yet the ones who are just learning the basics could participate & earn points, too. Jon likes the jepardy game, too, anyway - I bet this will appeal to him, too. We are doing this at a meeting, in 30 minutes, so I don't think we have time or space to lash a flagpole or find a big tree. I like the tree one - but they all did it at a camporee this fall, so they know the 'trick' to that one. thanks - any more? laura

Firebuilding - all boys love to 'play' with fire... just make sure you have a cleared area and keep water buckets handy! ____________ have them collect their tinder and kindling - they won't need fuel wood for this. you need some stiff coathanger wire bent into a big hook or shepherd crook with a small hook on the short hooked end. put these into the ground at the same heights around the fire circle and attach a fist-sized water balloon to the hooked end. Have them build and light their fire underneath - give them a limited amount of matches, (they lose points if they need more) or have them start it with magneseum sticks or flint and steel. the first team that gets a flame high enough to burst their water balloon and douse their fire, wins! _______________ have them research and make different kinds of firestarters they can carry in their patrol boxes and emergency kits - We carry film cannisters with Vaseline soaked cotton balls in it. you kind of tear the cotton balls apart while working a dollop of vaseline into it. (it's also great for chapped lips and hands!) you can fit quite a few of these shredded cotton balls packed into one film cannister. you can also carry any number of other 'tinder starters' in a waterproof film cannister - kleenex, paper towel, newsprint, dried grasses, flax or linen fibers, etc. then in the field, you can have them each make a small 'nest' of tinder - grasses, pine needles, we've even used actual bird nests we found - and put a tiny bit of this soaked cotton in it. When they use the flint and steel or the magnesium stick, it lights fast, giving them immediate rewards and results. If they KNOW it will work with 'cheater cotton' they are more likely to persist when they DON'T have that 'help'. ________ Have them start their fire with a magnifying glass, or get a bow and softwood & make an native american firestick. there are LOTS of versions of this, have the boys research and make different ones and try them, which works best? (three ways to start a fire without matches is a wilderness survival MB requirement) _______________________ they can make 'firestarters' or 'hobo stoves' to cook with - Firestarters - fold a sheet of newspaper lengthwise to a 3 or 4" width. roll it up tight and tie it with jute or cotton twine. when you have a few of these, dunk them in parrafin or melted down old candles - dunk them a few times so they are well coated and waterproof. when they are hard dry, keep some in each patrol box - they are great for starting wet wood. _______________ While you have the parrafin out & hot, dunk the heads of some small bundles of kitchen matches (about 10 tied together) you can use twist ties and remove them later or string and leave them. This waterproofs your matches and when you need them, you simply chip off some of the parrafin and strike them! (we've had boys leave out whole boxes of matches, this keeps them dry even if the box gets humid and soft from dew.) ______________- hobo stoves. you need a clean #10 (coffee can) and a clean empty tuna or catfood tin for each boy, newpaper, parrafin, string for a wick, tinsnips, pliers, work gloves and a pointed can opener. fold the newspaper to strips as tall as the side of the tuna can ( 1 1/2 - 2") and start rolling them up - place the 'wick' with about an inch sticking out somewhere in the roll near the center. add strips to the roll until you reach a size the circumference of the can and wedge the roll inside the can. it should be a firm, but not packed tight, fit. the paper rool should have a little'expansion room' once you let go. fill the can up to the level of the paper roll with hot, liquid parrafin. pour slowly - you want the parrafin to soak into the newspaper, not just fill open spaces. coat the wick, too, but make sure it stands free. Set it aside and let it cool and harden. while you are waiting for it to harden, take the tinsnips and cut two vertical cuts in the open edge of the coffee can - a little longer than the tuna can is tall - about 1/2 in taller. place the cuts about 4-5" apart, or a little more than the width of the tuna can. You are making a door to slide the 'tuna can burner' through. bend the resulting flap backwards into the can with pliers or heavily gloved hands - you want to press the flap as flat as you can against the inside of the can. Careful of the sharp edges. on the 'closed' end of the coffee can - use the can opener to punch 4-8 triangular holes around the edge of the can, in its SIDES, leaving the bottom intact. when the tuna/burner is solid, it can be transported and is pretty waterproof. you light the burner and place the 'stove' over it - you can cook right on the bottom of the coffee can, or use your mess kit to cook on it. Each boy can cook their own meal! (grilled cheese sandwiches work great on these) or they can each cook a part of a meal for their small patrol! laura

the BSA handbook, pg 187 says "obtain from your SM a signed MB application and the name of a qualified counselor for that MB" it does NOT say that the SM "approves" the counselor. the SM might personally know of good and bad counselors and my recommend one he likes, but can you really expect a SM to personally know the quality of at least one MB counselor for all 100 + badges? I'm sure our area doesn't even HAVE counselors for all those badges! I guess the problem comes in that the SM and troop 'should' check with the camp and council to make sure all their MB counselors ARE registered for the badges they teach, and the quality of the program before they send the boys off with blank MB cards. I'm sure most camps DO register the camp counselors as MB counselors for their subjects, but there is no control over the individual 'quality' of their training or their consistancy to the standards of the badge from year to year. Some camps do a better job than others, but that can change with staff changes over the years, too. Having seen the errors that can be made at camp regarding the reporting and collecting of merit badge card information, I would tend NOT to trust their paperwork skills, however. I have seen loads of errors in badge credit at the end of camp, both in camps that used the Blue cards and in ones that used some other recording system. Some areas are really good, others are really bad, sometimes the office itself messes up. One year we had two 'Troop 159's' from different councils at camp - man did THAT mess thngs up! The camps we have gone to generally have the head counselor or two for an area as the actual 'badge counselors' who are registered to sign off, while other camp counselors may work and teach under their direction and guidance. they do tend to be more stringent and concientious in the waterfront areas that require more extensive staff training - life guarding and swimming, which are Eagle required and other 'eagle required' badges - like First Aide & Env. Sci. - that may just be my perception though. As for the district and council advancement committees approving Merit badge counselors - I've never heard of them rejecting anyone, or asking for further information or training - particularly with regard to a camp staffer. Perhaps if there was a problem they might revoke a counselor's registration, but I've never heard of that, either. In our council, you send in your application and never hear about it again - it's kind of a black hole that way.... laura

we are preparing for Klondike and my son has been given the job of coming up with a 'game' to use knot and lashing skills for the meeting next monday. All we have come up with so far is knot relays (boring) and possibly a challenge to tie knots to earn the parts to lash a 'bridge' and cross a fake 'river' the knots would earn them points and parts to construct the bridge, and the quality of their lashings would earn points. But judging and the point system is looking a little tedious... he has a time limitation of about 30 minutes for this activity. Any other ideas? what has worked for your troops and the boys have thought was fun? we are more interested in CORRECT knots ans lashing, at this point, than speed.

i don't know about the paperwork or BSA requirements, but if you want to replace your 'old style' astronomy badge with a 1970's replacement, check e-bay and the collector boards. there's alot of BSA memorabila being sold out there as collector's items. In fact, Our troop is SO old (90 years) and we have lots of old pins and awards. Don't know if we have any badges, but i will check with our advancement chair who is enthralled with such stuff and an Eagle himself from the early 80's. If we have one, I'll let you know! laura

Once an Eagle, ALWAYS an Eagle - may you enjoy smooth winds beneath your wings, and fly high and long! congratulations! Laura

earning Merit badges during troop meeting time is not considered an effective use of the program, it's true. But I have never heard that working on advancement should not be part of the weekly meetings -Practically EVERYTHING a scout does is part of advancement for somebody, somehow! Working as a patrol or troop; planning outings, teaching methods, organizing the QM room, learning outdoor skills, holding ceremonies, being tested on a skill by an older scout or adult, participating in a BOR or SM conference, these are all appropriate prts of weekly troop meeting activities AND part of advancement. I've never seen a camp that "likely forsakes the patrol method, with the primary objective being achieving some sort of advancement?" 'Badgework' is NOT the same as 'Advancement'. the camps I have been involved with (3 since my son has been a scout and many others when I was a scout and counselor) all PROMOTE the patrol method. They cook in patrols, do chores, compete, sleep and often do badgework as a patrol. The CAMP does not award badges or advancement ranks. the camps my son & I have gone to don't even sign off on ranks - they may teach the skills, but the acceptance of their teaching and possibly testing is left up to the SM and ASM's in the troops who sign off on the requirements. They also don't give a hoot if a boy earns a badge or not. the camps DO provide (presumably trained and knowledgable) Merit Badge counselors - but a boy can certainly hang around the nature hut, do all the experiments and activities offered, and if he never signs up for a badge or tells the counselor he wants to work on a badge, they aren't going to hand it to him. BSA Advancement is structured in two tiers - Tenderfoot, 2nd Class & 1st Class; where a scout is learning the camping, cooking, and physical strengths & skills that make him a safe, dependable and useful member of his 'team' - his patrol. If a boy under First Class goes to camp - he can take advantage of the outdoor setting to 'DO' scouting 24/7 - by participating in program geared toward advancement. Depending on where he is in rank, and what his interests are he may do just advancement work, or do some advancment and some badges. Or he can float in the lake all day - but they usually get interested in all the activities. Practice and concentrated, related experiences help a boy learn and retain those neede skills. Once he HAS the skills, he progresses on to where HE can choose how to use them. There are some "Eagle required' badges that are required for upper level advancement (Star rank and above) and certain number of elective badges are required to advance to Star, Life and Eagle. But very few 'Eagle' badges are offered at camp - many of the Eagle badges just aren't suited to a camp setting - they have 'classwork' and writing that just doesn't appeal at camp. but the 'elective' badges, esp the outdoor ones, are well suited to camp- skills in shooting, waterfront activities, nature, arts and craftsmanship, conservation, science - these are simply a means of motivating the boys to thoughroughly explore an area of interest, to get 'into' something every day, not just for an hour once a week, to expand their horizons and learn, and earning the 'badge' is a reward and acknowledgement for their efforts. they are, after all, still kids. They are just learning that the journey can be the best part of having a goal. the "program" whether at troop meetings, events, or camp, should provide the 'oportunity' to learn. It's up to the boys to take advantage of those opportunities. The reward is skills, knowledge, experience, teamwork and leadership. But not many 12 to 14 yr olds grasp that. they DO grasp the immediate rewards of "I earned a badge", "I earned a rank" or in school - "I got an 'A'" or for chores, "mom paid me $10 to mow the lawn". Hopefully, along about the time they hit Star, Life and Eagle, they start to realize that LEARNING is rewarding in itself, and that the 'prize' is being a capable and self-sufficient person. Camp is not a 'troop' it has a totally different purpose than the troop meetings and activities. it is, essentially, a 'total immersion' in the 'fun' of scouting. laura

The merit badge counselor has the responsibility to see that he/ she follows the badge and that the boy covers the requirements as written. The counselor cannot ADD, DELETE or change the requirements. Neither does the troop, SM or committee have anything to say about how a boy earned a badge. It is not under their jurisdiction. About the only thing you CAN do is to make a formal complaint to the camp and it's council. You can choose to not send you troop to that camp again - but if you DO go to that camp, you can't tell the boys that they can't take certain badges - or that your troop will not accept badges earned there. another thing you can do is have a SM conference with the boys who received credit. Point out that a Scout is Trustworthy, and Obedient. He promised to 'do his best ... to keep himself... morally straight. Is it honest, obedient and moral to take credit for something he did not legitimately do? When they admit, as they must, that they did NOT do the requirements as written, take them as a group and try YOUR best to find a counselor and the means to get them the opportunity to REALLY do the badgework, ASAP. After all, they chose the badge because they were interested - they WANTED to do those projects and requirements and were cheated out of them by a poor counselor! Metalworking counselors are hard to come by - and the badges are already signed off - so finding an actual counselor is not as important as giving the boys the opportunity to complete the badge requirements to THEIR satisfaction. When they do, they will have gotten much more out of that badge than metalworking knowledge! the camp we went to this summer is out of our council also - and they also offer Metalworking. they can cover pretty much everything except the welding requirements (don't quote me, i'm not an expert on that badge) but they say that right up front in their literature. for every badge, they list what they can and cannot do at camp and what must be done before camp if they want to get the WHOLE badge instead of a partial. On the other hand, as a badge counselor myself, I was very dissapointed in some of their 'counselors' who were not adequately trained themselves. The camp counselors often added to, changed or 'bent' the requirements to suit themselves or the camp. One required the boys to bring a note from a parent or bring one of their unit adults down to 'verify' that the boy had participated in plays, done speeches at school, played an instrument, sang in choir, various things like that that could not be completed at camp - all relating to the 'arts' badges - theatre, public speaking, etc. This info was NOT disclosed prior to camp, and our boys were lucky that I am a substitute teacher in our school district and VERY aware of what our curriculum requires. I know what speeches and reports are required at various grades and if our boys are involved in plays, band and chorus, I usually go to the shows and cheer them on, many of our troop boys are also members of my chuch, and they perform there as well - but I can guess that most ASM's would not know if their boys had acted in a play, worn stage makeup, played a band concert or sung a solo, etc. On the other hand, My son took 'Leathercraft', as we don't have a counselor for it in our area, yet he had already done many of the requirements at a church camp we go to often that has a large leathercraft shop. After the 'arts' experience, I walked over with him to verify for the counselor what he had completed outside of camp. Jon had SOME of his work with him (he was wearing a belt he'd made and was using his knife holster (not a BSA kit) but he didn't have everything he'd done with him. That counselor said that he couldn't accept any work done outside of camp - he had to SEE the boy do it. Ok, we said, so where's the leather he can cut, tools to punch holes, the snaps he can put in, the paint supplies? Well - they only had kits - so we had to buy two kits which the counselor said would cover the requirements, But the holes & patterns were pre-cut, the snaps & hardware were already mounted, all Jon had to do was stamp them, lace them and paint them - and they were out of paints and stains. The counselor gave him credit for all the requirements anyway. He could NOT have legitimately done the required work at camp, they did not have the tools and materials! I let it go then, because I KNOW he has done all of the requirements, and more, elsewhere - but I also know that other boys who got credit for the badge, did not 'earn' it. I did speak to the camp director about the discrepancies in badge requirements, as well as included it in my review of the camp. the camp director, and experienced scouter, did seem concerned. When we got home, our troop sent a letter to their council office as well. We are not going back there next year, so I maynever know if they change it. laura

Eamon, I think you are right - the key is getting the word out to the people who need it the most - and those probably aren't the real active scout/ scouter families that get council news etc. Heck, most of the parents of the boys in our troop only have a vague idea that our concil office is in Rockford - many boys go completely through scouts without ever seeing the council office - it's too far away. I've only been there once myself - and that was because I had another appointment in that town that day. You need the info to get to the boys WITH the cooperation of their parents to buy/sell stuff. Few of the boys in our area actually have cash money they make decisions with. I think the 'swap-meet' idea is more like what I was thinking of. If a boy sells Mom's sleeping bag - or spends more than mom and dad want him too - then I think that's more of a parental problem - not our problem. Belive me - Jon isn't heading out somewhere with equipment unless I know why! and he'd never dream of selling my treasured cozy sleeping bag - if he did - I'd take his, until he could buy me a new one! LOL! If boys are selling ON THEIR OWN - I could maybe see a problem with the amount of cash being handled. But I don't really see that many boys who would be left on their own to run their own sales. I'd think we would require a parent or scouter to be around. Another idea would be to print "scout bucks" so that real cash was not handled by the boys. One cashier station; people buy 'scout bucks' there and cash in any unused 'scout bucks' as they leave. this would lend itself, if the event was big enough, to have a refreshment stand, or for unredeemed 'scout bucks' to be donations to the troop or group sponsoring the event. You would have to put a limit on how long the 'scout bucks' were redeemable - or they'd be turning up for months.... Our district uses 'scout bucks' which have no monetary value, but are awarded for troop participation in roundtable and other events. at the end of the year, those 'scout bucks' can be turned in to 'buy' donated items, training materials, etc for your troop. I could see doing this in combination with a district event / roundtable or such - but I don't think it would attract the parents (or their $) of the boys that REALLY NEED the equipment(ie:the newer less active families) I also know that in our district, our roundtable location is already pressed to the limit for space and time. They are currently shopping for a new location. I also think it might distract from events such as Klondike, or a district camporee. Though it could possible be done in conjunction with something like our Merit Badge opportunity days. I'm thinking that for us, a better set-up would be to run it as its OWN event - like all day on a Sat - or maybe ADVERTISE it heavily at roundtable, training events or the council paper, etc. Any more ideas out there? laura

A scout is trustworthy.... However, as people have noted in other threads, being an EAGLE scout is valuble to people outside of scouting - for that very reason, someone may go down to our local Ace hardware (our local retail distributer) and try to purchase an Eagle patch. Point being that if they are NOT a scout - they are not necessarily 'trustworthy' i doubt that anyone outside of scouting would know or care what OA or square knots were, and those IN scouting that were not qualified and tried to wear tham would be known, by somebody in the council. It's also been pointed out by a wise SM I know, that there are "Scouts" and then, there are boys who wear a scout uniform. Not necessarily the same thing. I don't see a problem with requiring some form of proof to buy insignia of a certain level - especially the Eagle patch. On the other hand, I don't think most retail distributors carry those kind of insignia, at least, not in our council. They carry council patches, year pins, numbers, some patrol patches maybe - but anything that is 'earned' our local troop order from the council trading post. and I don't know if they ask for proof of anything Laura

Hobbies? you mean there's hobbies OTHER than scouts? When I was young, I used to design clothes, sew clothes, shop for clothes, cosmetics & jewlery - typical girl. then I bought a house. Now I get giddy over power tools, tile samples and plumbing fixtures.... same thing - but now i adorn my house instead of me! part of my house is always torn apart and being re-done, some because it's needed, but often just for fun. (and I don't have a wife who gets annoyed at the mess!LOL! - its MY mess!) I'm hooked on home improvement shows, Trading spaces and Changing rooms (BBC) are favorites, but I'd rather follow the carpenters than the decorators! Though I am an equal-opportunity theif - I'll steal home improvement ideas from anywhere! I like to build things, and my son shares this interest - from electrical work to woodworking. We're not pros, but we've remodeled a camper, our kitchen and two bathrooms. Of course, we had a ball with Pinewood Derby! He got me a router attachment for my Dremel for Christmas - after i finish the bathroom we're currently working on - we start on his room. We're going to build him a new waterbed, if we can't find a used one cheap. I also like to refinish furniture. I love to watch the 'life' return to a beautiful piece of wood furniture from under dark and cruddy finishes and bad paint jobs! I also like gar(b)age sales; and love finding trash and making it into treasures! I also often HAVE garage sales - I can't store it all forever! A few years ago I got a 20 gal fishtank for my son - he likes to watch it, but I take care of them. I got hooked more than he did. I have two freshwater tanks in the house and a Betta bowl, and would like to add another 20 or 30 gal tank. If I can only find room amid the construction projects..... I Love Golden Retreivers, and volunteer with Golden Retreiver Rescue of Wisconsin - our golden is a mix we rescued 2 yrs ago and he is my spoiled, constant buddy. I have always loved camping, of course, and especially canoeing. we have a small pop-up - but haven't taken it out for about 2 yrs, as work and scouts has limited our camping time to mostly scout/tent camping. When I get quiet time- I like SCI-Fi & Fantasy - both to read and movies (not horror sci-fi). Yes, I'm a closet Trekkie. I also like historical fiction & classic fiction like "Rascal", "My side of the mountain", Hatchet, and of course, Harry Potter! I read alot - cereal boxes and junk mail if nothing else is available. I also hang out on the computer too much. lol! I like electronic gadgets - we recently set up a home network, and I like to play with my 35 mm camera and my digital camera. (I'm a photography MB counselor, too) When I have any time left over - I Sleep! Laura

PS - i would be really interested in seeing your compiled results of this informal survey, or your report - when you get it done - Please post the results or a link to them when you finish? i'm sur I'm not the only one who'd like to see the 'trends' thanks! laura

How many boys registered? 26 How many boys active? 24 How many Patrols? 3 Does your troop go to summer camp in or out of Council? Both Does your troop go to Dist/Council Camporees? YES Does your troop support FOS? YES Does your troop sell Popcorn?YES If not, what are your fundraisers? popcorn is actually very little, though, and it ALL goes to the boy accounts. We also sell bottled water at community events, do car parking for the county fair, and recycle ink cartridges Does your troop use NSP, FCFY method? FCFY- yes, tried NSP, failed - hopefully will try again Does your troop have a Venture Patrol? yes - very active Does your troop have a feeder pack? No, we actively recruit from 4 packs and non-scouts of all ages. How does your troop recruit non-Cub Scouts? yes! Has your troop seen your Unit Commissioner in the past 6 months? Our UC and COR are the same person. Is your Unit Commissioner helpful or a pain? sometimes both! Does your troop leaders attend Roundtable? yes - usually 2 - 5 SM, ASM's and some committee How many members are on your troop committee? guess? about 12-14 Is your troop boy led? wasn't before, working on it now, hard to shake the committee's grip. SM and ASM's are dedicated and together on supporting PLC decisions and a boy-lead troop, however. How many assistant Scoutmasters do you have? 4 - 3 experienced, 2 active and well trained, 1 not so active and not big on training. He goes along on HA trips. 1 new, very involved, working on training Do you know who your COR is and when did you last see him/her? our COR and UC are the same person. COR is VERY active on the committee - which is mixed blessing. Very dedicated, experienced, trained, lifetime scouter. But she talks boy-lead and doesn't want to let go. committee follows. I'd have two questions to add, too - how many of your SM/ASM's are trained and how far? All have YP, all but 1 have SM/ASM essentials, 3 have SM specific, committee challenge, outdoor leader skills, and quite a few district and regional skills trainings. Those three have served on both committee and SM/ASM at various times. One is aiming for woodbadge. the new guy is taking things ASAP. Are any committee members trained? what percentage? all have YP -out of 12-14 people, I would say 3 or 4 have ANY other training - which I think is deplorable. Too many are "old scouts" who are not interested in any changes - and these are ones who HAVE been trained and ignore it - except where it suits their purpose. I do think (and fervently hope!)that the (involved and enthusiastic) majority of new parents on the committee will change that, now that they've 'found their way' after their first 6-9 mos on committee!

BITE your tongue and knock on wood..... Don't you know that I asked Santa for 'peace on earth, good will toward men'? I thought maybe I got it at least SOMEWHERE! LOL!

I had this idea - and wanted to run it by you guys and see if we could pick the faults out of it..... I have known that many troops, including ours, have a "uniform bank" of gently used, outgrown uniform parts that boys can borrow or use. But there is also a need for alot of non-uniform clothing and personal gear that often becomes VERY expensive - especially as boys grow and scouts and scouters establish specfic needs, likes and dislikes in gear. One of the big problems with giving stuff away, or donating it to the troop is a small (for our troop, at least) circle of people to pull from, and related to this, is that there are no 'hand me downs' or out grown, servicable uniforms and gear for the older/ larger boys and adults. They are forced to buy new, while the younger, smaller boys get a big break. My idea would be to have an area 'SCOUT' garage sale - each person, or troop, gets a table or booth, (Kind of like a flea market or craft fair)and they put out and sell ONLY scout and outdoor/ camping related gear. No 'general' merchandise. If it can't be used in scouting, it doesn't come in. this would allow people to find and purchase a wide variety of gently used stuff at reasonable prices, and for those older boys and adults, they can actually MAKE some cash with which to buy things they need without always being on the short end. i would also think that this would put out there lots of stuff that would not normally be 'donated' because of it's original cost or current value. how many people have bought a piece of equipment and later decided that it wasn't for them - so it sits unused? I am an avid garage saler - both having garage sales and shopping them. The way my son and his friends grow - I often see perfectly good stuff - like hiking boots, water shoes, thermal gear, backpacks, tents, bike accessories, bike helmets, sit unsold, or sold for practically nothing, for lack of the right buyer. What I'm picturing is a targeted garage sale - specific to Scouts and campers. Of course, we could all list our stuff on E-bay - but not everyone is an internet shopper, you can't try things on, and there's shipping & fees to pay.... Do you think this would work? Say within a town or as a district event? i could see doing it a couple of ways - First and easiest - would be to give each small group, troop or family, a table - and let them sell their own stuff and collect their own money. Like a fair, a small space fee could pay for advertising, supplies, etc. It could possibly even be a fundraiser for the troop that organised it or C/O that sponsors the event? another option would have to be a smaller group of sellers - less people or troops bringing things in, perhaps one or two troops could do this - but have departmentalized sales areas - all footwear over there, all cooking gear somewhere else, all backpacks in one area, sleeping bags and tents in another. (this would be easier to shop and possibly sell more, but tagging & tracking would be a huge headache, depending on how the money was handled) _______________- Can you guys brainstorm this with me? What pitfalls do you see? What ideas would you add? Do you think this is a good idea/ or a really bad one? Suggestions and comments please? laura