lancefisher

We have always gone the route that additional long term camps/treks were counted as 3 nights towards the requirement (including additional summer camps). The limit on only one long term camp counting has been interpreted as not excluding ANY nights of the trips, but simply as not having ONLY long term camp nights. LF

In our troop the adults form the Old Goat Patrol, wearing a patch showing an old goat in a camp chair with umbrella, drinking lemonade. On our patch is our patrol saying: "Ask Your Patrol Leader!" Our regular adult campers/ leaders include both moms and dads. Our patrol is usually only made up of the adult drivers to a camp (about 6 or 7), along with the SPL (who has no Duty Roster duties, but eats with us and places his tent/sleeping area between the adults and the boys); but for a nearby camp such as Camporee (usually our first campout after crossovers from packs), or our annual campout where we invite Webelos II from local packs, we end up with a larger adult patrol (around 20). Our usual ratio is one adult for every 4 boys on most campouts. We have no problems with this, as we need the drivers, and allowing them to stay gives us more volunteers for driving then just dropping off and picking up would. They get to see how the boys are progressing, and learn to let them be on their own (awards for most independent new adult and most independent new Scout camper are a feature of early year camps). They also end up learning the skills required for rank, and so can help their own boys if asked at home. Most of the adult campers are active in the troop as registered leaders, and those that aren't usually become registered after a few campouts. They allow us to have more flexibility in camp programs and give us additional resources for learning, as it is impossible for only a few people to know everything. We are lucky to have adults skilled in a variety of different fields (botany, geology, nature, science, wilderness and others), allowing us to provide a wide array of learing beyond just basic scout skills (between our leaders, we have merit badge counselors for all of the Eagle required badges and a number of electives). We have the adventurous (hikers, rock climbers, backpackers, skilled water and snow sports enthusiasts) and those that prefer car camps (and like to teach things like area lore and dutch oven cooking). By their involvement, the boys see the enjoyment of camping, and not just going to fulfill requirements for rank. To limit the outdoor program to just SM and ASM's would degrade the opportunities our boys enjoy. I don't ever anticipate there would be occasion where all or most of the adults came to the same camp, but I would be loathe to say 'no' if they so chose.

"Not only is the patch ridiculously large, but the logo on it is silk screened or some other similar process, meaning it'll eventually get trashed from repeated cleaning unless you get the shirt dry cleaned." NOT a good idea - if dry cleaned, the logo will no longer be attached to the patch when you get the uniform back. I've washed my uniform exclusively because of this, and I've seen no degradation of the logo. Of course, we have earned the QU every year since the troop started (coming up on 25 years in January 2010!), so they only need to survive one year's washings. I'm not sure how often the boys (and leaders) are washing their shirts, but I can tell which ones are dry cleaned by the lack of the QU logo.

Anything longer than the 6th night would have to be specifically adjusted, at least in Troopmaster (everything after the 6th is counted as 'excess' and does not get added in to the eligibility reports). Our OA Chapter Advisor and the Council Camping Chairman supports this, and said the spirit of the requirement, as far as they are concerned, would also allow the seventh night; any more after that shouldn't be counted. We also gave 6 nights credit for Philmont, though those participants had plenty of nights camping, and only needed it to be counted as attending a long term camp.

Thank you for all your input. As it fell to me to make the call as Scoutmaster, I interpreted it to read 'at least' 5 nights, and included the 6th night. I later spoke to our OA Chapter Advisor, and that was his interpretation as well. There wouldn't have been an issue at all, but an injury last fall precluded the candidate from camping since October (missing the ten nights during that period), and then our March campout (and the two nights there) was scrubbed due to technical difficulties. All is good now, and the callout at next week's Camporee will include one more Ordeal candidate.

In Troopmaster, the OA Eligibility counts camps of 5 or 6 nights camping as long term. The OA membership requirement states long term camp of 5 nights, with the balance coming from short term camps. Is that intended to read ONLY 5 nights of a long term camp (all of our summer camps are 6 nights), so that 10 nights additional short term camping is required, or is it meant to read as AT LEAST 5 nights, with an additional night still counted toward the 15 nights, leaving 9 nights short term camping required? I have never had to address this as there was never anyone on the edge, but this time the 6th night of summer camp is the difference (if it counts, he's eligible, if not, he isn't). The unit leader makes the call on what constitutes camping, but not the length requirements.