ASM7

With all the talk about thr FCFY program, is there any written guidelines for it. I'm referring to a week to week lesson plan type doc. I was told that the old woods wisdom had something like that but it's not produced anymore. We have tried to do the program by instituting our own format, but it just seems with all the emphasis, that there would be a tried and true lesson to work off of. If it exists, I haven't found it yet. Maybe someone has produced it and made it available on their website. For my woodbadge ticket, I put together a weekly lesson, that lasts about ten minutes, that covers most of the TF to FC skills and knowledge. It is meant refresh skills and not to be the initial teaching. This lesson is presented by the SPL and the scouts are involved in reading sections from the Handbook. It has things like Knot of the Week, First Aid tip of the Week, Map and Compass Tip of the Week, Scout Skill of the Week. It even has a place for Scouts to tell their Good Deed of the Week, and there is also a Quote of the Week. Scouts try to guess who said the quote. There are twenty weeks of lessons and that gets us up to the time for Spring Camporee where they demonstrate their skills and knowledge. But if anybody has some guidelines, I'm sure others would like to know about it. Thanks

I don't ever remember getting into a hissy with anyone while on a camping trip, sitting by a campfire. It would be nice to be there right now, wouldn't it? Maybe it's time to bury the hatchett. I remember my old uniform had those little pants pocket flap that buttoned up or down. The piping around them were red and also the embroidery on the shirt, but the garter tassels were green. I agree with Bob White about the colors. Once they dropped the green tassel, red was the only contrasting color. I did like those no collar shirts though. The neckerchief was more comfortable and looked better. I still feel like tucking my collar in sometimes.

Bob I thought you were agreeing. I said we use the FYFC program. Our program is by the book and top notch. We have had some boys leave because they want things given to them. I don't think anything about the FC skills is hard, although some boys are too lazy to even try. And yes, the motivation and leadership is there. Whether it's 3,4, or 5 percent Eagle, it's still low. Is it a weak program? No. Are the opportunities there? Yes. Are the requirements harder than going from TF to FC? No. Since any merit badge can be earned prior to FC, why the sudden drop in percentage attaining FC and those attaining Eagle? It's like I said, too many other factors.

Bob White Thanks for agreeing with me, but I'm not sure what we are agreeing on. The Scoutmaster Handbook lists the methods of Scouting on pages 8-9, but does not say anything about a new scout patrol. However, it is mentioned in the boy led patrol section where it states that many troops have new scout patrols. I agree that the new scout patrol is a good idea. The handbook also says that patrols of less than five members is seldom very efficient. So, if you only have a couple of new scouts, it may be better for them to be in a regular patrol. When I was in scouts as a boy, we only had regular patrols. It seemed to work fine. As far as what is and is not scouting. The Lone Scout program may have a problem with your patrol statement. Just because a scout doesn't reach FC by the first year doesn't automatically denote a weak program. Too many factors to say that. We could also come to a conclusion that a troop where every boy made first class in the first year was making it too easy for them. Scouts leave for different reasons. I imagine that there are troops that lose 50% that use the FCFY program also. I tend to throw my attention on the scouts that are in our program and not the ones that left. The fact that boys leave the program is the big reason for 1 or 2 Eagles in 100. As far as what B-P said and wrote or used in his books, the BSA might have some problems with some of that today. You notice we only use select quotes. In his Aids to Scoutmasters, he never mentioned the new scout patrol. I especially find interesting the text he uses from Mr. Casson from Teacher's World Magazine about the complicated nature of the boy and the three F's. Very good reading.

We set up a program for the scouts to achieve First Class in the first year, but it is not a requirement. Our troop beleives that we should be event driven and not time driven. In other words it is more important to us that the scouts learn from and carry out projects and requirements, no matter how long it takes. We also use reflection to troubleshoot just about everything. The scoutmaster handbook states "a scout has a better than average chance of eventually becoming Eagle if he advances to FC by the first year." But even if he takes longer, he has still earned it and has mastered the basic scouting skills and should not receive less credit. The Handbook also states " boys should not be pressured to advance or given deadlines for completing various badges. The speed with which he completes requirements, and even to advance at all, lies with each boy." SM Handbook pg 119. Let's not mistake tools for requirements. As for all of this bickering, all of us are just trying to the best job that we can and it is not up to one of us to judge the other. If we keep our personal feelings towards another's views out of this board, we all can be more productive. The Scout Law doesn't just apply to the scouts. Thanks

dan I think the first class in the first year is doable for the scouts that who have good participation. Not all scouts will achieve it. Sometimes though when they see their buddies advancing before them, they get on the stick. We have a 75% policy. You don't advance without getting to 75% of the meetings and outings. We keep up with it on troopmaster. By the way we understand the importance of their sports and other activities, so as long as they get there, even if they arrive before the closing ceremony with a valid reason, they get credit for attending. That way we know Scouting is important to them. Troop campout absences can be made up with other campouts such as OA or patrol campouts.

capdug I didn't know this until a couple of month's ago, but temporary patches can be worn on the back of the merit badge sash. Although our boys only wear the sash at formal events (COH, Scout Sunday, BOR) it still gives them a place to wear different temporary patches. I don't personally like the patches on the back of the sash but that's the regulation.

We are the cutting edge youth organization in the world. We don't need to be blind to the drug problem. Yes, anyone on drugs is an expert on concealing it. We have policies on smoking and drinking during Scout functions because of their bad effects on the human body. These two drugs are some of the most habit forming. Most everyone who is now a leader, was a child of the sixties and seventies and saw or experimented with some form of illegal drug. By the grace of God, we all made it through those years. The point is if you look back, you realize how easy it was to obtain anything you wanted. So we have to assume it is just as easy now or easier. So, yes we do need some form of drug awareness training in Scouting. Just how it should be presented, I will leave up to the professionals.

Ed I didn't mean to lead you to believe I'm an evolutionist. I do believe man was created in God's image. But I do believe that animals evolve to adapt to environments. Ex. snakes of the same species are different colors in different geographical areas. My theory is that all of the different ranges of colors existed originally and the best camo colors survived in that area. In the same respect, humans that live in different parts of the world have different features and colors of skin. Genesis 11 points out that man was made to speak different languages by the Lord and scattered all over the earth. But said nothing about changing their physical features. At the time all the people of the world were descendants of Ham, Japheth, and Shem, the sons of Noah. If we believe this, then these people evolved to adapt to their surroundings. That's the type of evolution that I believe in. As far as humans evolving from a simple single celled animal. I believe thats how we all start out in the womb. So, if you believe that life starts at conception, then yes we do evolve from a simple single celled animal. I also believe that God gave us the ability to think and reason about these things but he also added faith to the mixture so we don't have to know everything. Because only God can know everything.

Agree with NJCubScouter I beleive that evolution is a part of creation. God created animals and humans with instincts. These instincts are survival based. We develop abilities or disregard them just like animals. Whether its a cave trout that no longer has vision, a lizard that changes color or the human eye that adjusts to darkness, all of these are types of evolution that are built into creation. Creation is continually happening. As for the Bible, more and more events in the Bible are being proved true by science. But our belief can only be based on Faith which by definition requires no proof.

Bob White, Good Call! I never realized that the committee was not a voting body. But I guess voting is just a way of getting a concensus. As an ASM I knew that I was not a member of the Committee and I always assumed that meant I did not have a vote. Its going to be a real eye opener when the committee learns that they don't either. Sometimes the committee thinks it's role is a governing body.

One more thing. There is no way this scout will advance in rank because he does not show scouting spirit and definitely has no understanding of the Scout Law and Oath. When all his mates are advancing and he is not, he will do one of three things. 1. Get bored with the whole thing and cull himself out. 2. Stay a tenderfoot all his life. or 3. Get in line and prove us all wrong What are your bets out there? 1. 2. or 3. The system usually takes care of itself. A Scoutmaster has a lot of power when he honestly does not sign a scout off on that requirement. Just hope nothing terrible happens in the mean time.

It seems to me that this scout is a product of poor parenting or more precisely no parenting. Where is the Father! Obviously not present. The Mother justifies everything the scout does so he has no sense of right or wrong. Is the scout an only child? If not, are his siblings the same way? Counseling is definitely needed. I recommend suspension until this happens. It's a hard call with a situation like this. The scouting program is the place he needs to be to learn from good adult examples. Everything needs to be documented and the unit commissioner needs to be notified. They are trained to handle this type of situation. If he deems it neccesary to go higher or advises stronger action, let it be his call. The more monkey you can get off of your back, the better. The boy probably needs to see his Mom admonished for her actions so he knows that she won't be always able to cover for him. I'm interested in learning what transpires.

Scoutmaster424 I'm glad you like the idea. I think I mentioned that we hold ours in December, so it takes care of the Christmas Party and COH. Although it has a military origin, I think that military is not an accurate description. Formal fits better. I believe your guests and scouts will have a great time. If you need to ask any more questions, just contact my personal email. Thanks

Scoutmaster424 i hope you were able to get to the AF Academy website. Just some other notes. To clear up the terminology, the Dining-In only involves members of the unit. The Dining-Out has outside guests. Ours is usually a Dining-Out, to incompass a Court of Honor where all of the families and other guests are invited. Usually we have a speaker from the council to talk about scout history or experiences. In contrast to what has been mentioned earlier, our head table is addressed personally only after getting permission from Mr. Vice, who sits at the back of the room. Mr. Vice is the vessel from which all transactions are made. It gets really funny watching Mr. Vice and all he has to do. Usually, Mr. President requests Mr. Vice to taste test the course being served for approval before anyone else can eat it. Our scouts are responsible for preparing the grog which is made up of supposed ingredients from every place that we have been during the year. ie. mud from a rainy campout or water wrinched from a wet sock, river water. Use food coloring and be real inventive. The guests really crack up over the grog. Scouts use the dining-out for showing off their individual gifts and are expected to bring an instrument they play or poetry they have written.When breaking an etiqette rule, scouts have an opportunity to get up and display their art through a request from Mr. President. Scouts are also asked to bring a roll of pennies for the purpose of fines. Or they may take a drink from the grog. Sometimes a scout will get fined for ratting on another scout. We all have a great time. Make sure the rules of the Dining-out/in are read at the commencement of the meeting. We only use the meeting before the dining-out to refresh our etiqutte skills with help from a member of the Methodist Women. She sets up a sample place setting where they learn the names of the different pieces. We felt since for most of the year we operate in an outdoor setting that this serves a great purpose and we don't dwell on it the rest of the year. We find our scouts using these skills during the rest of the year.

Scoutmaster424 We were fortunate to derive a great program from the British military called scouting. Other programs have also been derived. One is the formal Dining-In. It's an old military tradition where officers dine and conduct various traditional ceremonies. This tradition has been adopted by US military also and I know that the Air Force Academy has information about it on their website. Our Scoutmaster is retired Army, who went to the AF Academy and then did some officer exchange program with the British and fought with them in Desert Storm. He brought the program to our troop and has now been a five year tradition. The rules are very strict but lots of fun is the end result. The scouts go through an etiquette class the week before the big event. Our dining-in is our annual Christmas banquet and also serves as Court of Honor. This is one way we make this hard to learn lesson fun. The UMW help with the cooking and the Girl Scouts help serve the meals. Just so you know, we pay them back by serving them at one of their functions. Our scouts not only learn the proper etiqette but how to serve as well.

tbarn most good scout camps have a COPE course for older scouts. They start at ground level and work up to the high ropes course. Great for builing self esteem

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The hardest lesson for me to learn when I came from Cub leader to Scout leader was to be able to step back and let things happen as long as there was not a safety issue. It's the same for the parents of newly crossed over scouts. We tell the parents that we are event driven not time driven. Shoot, I don't think our scouts could put up a tent in the daytime. The transition from having things done for you and doing it yourself is painful. I agree that check lists are great, but the scouts do them and not the parents. I detest going around at camporee and seeing leaders doing all the cooking and cleaning with scouts running around playing. The best way for the parents to help is to become a member of the leader patrol. Our leaders do things as a patrol and try to be an example to the scouts. We have a lot of fun and it's amazing how some of our ideas get repeated in the scout patrols.

I agree with quixote. The troop should be provided enough opportunities for the scout to comply with the requirement. I think the idea is to make it seem second nature for a scout to be envolved in the community. To want to pitch in whenever possible. This idea seems to make it harder for him. The Eagle service project should be significant as far as how much thought and planning goes into it. It doesn't have to cost a fortune or anything for that matter. But it should be an experience the scout will carry with him for a long time. The Life requirement just makes sure that the scout is putting in the time in service to others.

Little Dove I know these threads kind of serendip around, but I remember you saying you used a friend of the troops farm and lake. I was wondering if it was more work or less work, having camp at a non-scout facility? You said that money was the issue. Was it less costly having to do all the meals? How did the waterfront work out with Safe Swim Defence and Safety Afloat rules? We considered doing a troop summer camp once, but it was going to be too much work to cover all the guidelines set by BSA and still give the scouts the most bang for the buck. Our summer camp is only $115/scout/week.

Hi Cheesywezzy I'm a boy scout leader and my wife was a brownie leader for a while. I haven't heard the term twilight camp program before. Could you enlighten me and others. Maybe it's something we could use. Is it like an evening campfire? Our troop does night hikes without flashlights to teach the scouts about night vision and also get to see night time nature and things like foxfire and do constellation study. Real interesting. Welcome to the Forum.

I just wanted to put this question to everyone. I am an Assistant Scoutmaster and have been for a few years now. I have earned the Leaders Training Award but that seems to be the only regognition for ASM's. The Scoutmasters key is only available to SM's. Cub Scouting has the DL award and it seems to me that there should be some type of earned award for the ASM. We have a great SM and I wouldn't think of displacing him so that I or other ASM's could earn the award. I believe the ASM position to be worthy of a separate award and my SM agrees. Of course Scouter award is available for various district positions but it seems to be the same award for all of these positions. The Scoutmaster award of Merit is another award only for the SM. What do you think? I don't think any SM would want to have his job without the dedicated ASM's on his staff.

You Guys and Gals that went through Wood Badge may remember in one of the Leadership skills called "Understanding the Characteristics and Needs of the Group and it's Members", the summary listed that each member of the group had five basic needs. The fourth was recognition, self-respect, independence and esteem. Maybe the Training Committee Chair needs to look back at his own training. If the CM/TDL was registered as CM. Who did the TDL job. The award should go for that job that he did week to week. I also served as CM and DL. The DL job was every week. The CM job was hold Monthly Pack meetings. You can do both! One doesn't take away from the other. Let's change the rule.

Sounds like Little Dove's little boy is turning into quite the Young Man! You obviously have brought him up right. This has probably been a great lesson for your son. Proving that some people, while they think they are helping others really only have their own agenda in mind. Your son has been taught to "Be Prepared" and his training paid off. Not many people get the opportunity to save someone's life. He proved that he has what it takes. Not all good acts get recognized, but that does'nt mean they are any less good. He wasn't thinking about a reward or an award when he dove in that water, and I bet he would do it again if given the chance. Keep the faith and thanks to your son and to you.