Kudu

If the army was Wood Badge trained (where the privates vote for new generals every six months), we'd all be speaking Arabic now.

Well, I attended that "Trail Life USA Town Meeting" last night. Attendance was sparse, mostly district people who plan to be involved in both organizations, plus a guy from the Royal Rangers willing to lend a hand to the new organization. I was able to briefly examine a Trail Life handbook. At first glance the Scoutcraft seemed even thinner than that of the BSA. The "Leadership and Character" (anti-Scoutcraft) aspects were even more pronounced, which should not be a surprise since it is an organization of BSA expatriates. My BSA Troop's former Chartered Organization Representative is the chief Trail Life commissioner in this area. I agreed to serve on his committee as an outdoor skills trainer if he can shepherd my application through the process. It turns out that one factor limiting involvement on district levels, is that a volunteer application must include a letter of reference from your pastor, so those who agree with Trail Life principles, but are not members of a church are excluded from membership.

Maybe when our professional millionaires run out of ideas to turn the Boy Scout program into an "inclusive" indoor program, we might consider the June 15, 1916 Scoutcraft program mandated by an Act of Congress in return for our monopoly on Scouting. http://inquiry.net/leadership/sitting_side_by_side_with_adults.htm

I will definitely join at some level if they try fill the vacuum left by the BSA's turn away from Hillcourt's Real Patrol Method, which was based on the "Trail Life" of Patrols.

A friend of mine is hosting a "Trail Life USA Town Meeting" this Wednesday at 6 PM at the church which hosts our BSA Troop. I plan to attend. The name "Trail Life" is promising but the slogan "Adventure, Character, and Leadership" is troublesome, since the BSA has used the slogan "Character and Leadership" to explain why they took the Adventure (and the "Real Patrol" Method) out of Scouting in 1972.

"(8) No person under the age of 18..." Is a subset of "(g) Camping at authorized sites, cabins or other structures." That is Webelos III camping, not a backpack trip. In New York State you need a permit for wilderness backpacking only when you camp in the same spot for more than three nights, or in a group of ten or more people. http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/7872.html "Campground" being the operative word here, if the photo of the paved sidewalks and crushed stone campsites didn't give it away. I did call one state park and the weekend guy said, "Well, I don't know of any Massachusetts wilderness age rules, but I wouldn't send them out on the AT any younger than ten or eleven without adult supervision!" My underage New Hampshire backpacking experience is limited to the White Mountain National Forest, where there are no age restrictions. If the term "state park" is too confusing, unsupervised Boy Scouts might stick to National Forests and the Appalachian Trail (AT): Massachusetts has 90 miles of AT trail, Vermont has 150 miles, and New Hampshire has 161 miles. A Note to Young Readers: If your "BSA Trained" adult leaders can not tell the difference between a family campground and a state wilderness trailhead, you might be safer in a campground that requires photo ID! Even more disturbing for adult backpackers is the statement on the New Hampshire site: Camping in N.H. State Parks is only permitted in organized campgrounds.

"(8) No person under the age of 18..." Is a subset of "(g) Camping at authorized sites, cabins or other structures." That is Webelos III camping, not a backpack trip. In New York State you need a permit for wilderness backpacking only when you camp in the same spot for more than three nights, or in a group of ten or more people. http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/7872.html "Campground" being the operative word here, if the photo of the paved sidewalks and crushed stone campsites didn't give it away. I did call one state park and the weekend guy said, "Well, I don't know of any Massachusetts wilderness age rules, but I wouldn't send them out on the AT any younger than ten or eleven without adult supervision!" My underage New Hampshire backpacking experience is limited to the White Mountain National Forest, where there are no age restrictions. If the term "state park" is too confusing, unsupervised Boy Scouts might stick to National Forests and the Appalachian Trail (AT): Massachusetts has 90 miles of AT trail, Vermont has 150 miles, and New Hampshire has 161 miles. A Note to Young Readers: If your "BSA Trained" adult leaders can not tell the difference between a family campground and a state wilderness trailhead, you might be safer in a campground that requires photo ID!

No, your point was "If any group of scouts tried that today, a bunch of people would probably end up in jail." As for RichardB's "Centennial Year" attack on the "Real Patrol" Method: What do you expect? His boss gets paid a million dollars a year to bash camping. So what? How did that actually impact your own outdoor program? Was it 4 Patrols times 4 Weekends per month for a total of 16 fewer Patrol Campouts per month? 50 years ago it never occurred to us to ask our Scoutmaster for permission to camp without adult supervision, even though it was "required." The "simple reality" is if you teach your Scouts how to backpack, they will begin to buy the equipment they need to go backpacking on their own. Like we did 50 years ago. They will invite their friends, some of whom may be in their Patrol, and some of whom will not be Scouts at all. They may ask their parents for permission, but they won't ask you. Baloney. There is no such California state law. http://www.curfewclass.com/states/California%20Curfew%20Laws.html "Been told" by a Trained Webelos III leader, you mean. I called the head of Cleveland California National Forest Law Enforcement (858-673-6180). He said he had never heard of such a state law, and if one existed it would not be his job to enforce it. He did say that there are city and county laws designed for urban areas, but he has never heard of one being used against Boy Scouts in a National Forest or state wilderness area. The problem is that Wood Badge has been dumbed down to the Den Leader level, so BSA camping is usually a Webelos III event in a Boy Scout camp or other family venue. So when a "Trained" leader hears the term "state park," he or she thinks of state family campgrounds (where unsupervised teenagers might be discouraged) rather than state wilderness trailheads, which are essentially the same as National Forest trailheads. And of course: Wood Badge victims can not distinguish between a Troop backpacking program and a "Real Patrol" overnight. Baloney. The age of passengers is unrestricted after holding a driver's license for one year, or at 17 years of age, whichever comes first. That's about the same as it was 50 years ago in New York State. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driver's_license_in_the_United_States So no, it is not more difficult for teens today to just pick up and "go camping" than it used to be. What is more difficult for teens today is to find a "Trained" Boy Scout leader that does not brainstorm excuses for a Boy Scout program literally (not figuratively) designed to get parlor boys to Eagle without ever walking into the woods with packs on their backs.

Call it socialist steak, it's still baloney. A note to young readers! Citizenship in the Parlor Worker's Paradise! "Pay attention please. Thank you!" "Is next . . . Daywear!" "Is next . . . Eveningwear!" "Is next . . . Swimwear!" That's what government-imposed monopolies do: Force your parents to brainstorm excuses for dreadfully inferior products like the BSA Camping Merit Badge. To the "Trained" adult mind, Parlorwear Eagles are inevitable. Citizenship Merit Badge Vocabulary Words: Baloney Socialism Government-Imposed Dictatorship of the Proletariat Dictatorship of the Parlortariat Monopoly Inferior Wood Badge Den Leader Trained Inevitable Free Market Perp Walk Innovation Something for Nothing 7.7 Trillion-Dollar Bailout

Your operative term being "TROOP swim."

As the new Scoutmaster of a Troop with four (4) active Scouts, I recruited 15 sixth-graders and put them together with a sixteen-year-old Natural Leader (for whom the original four Scouts had refused to vote). My solution to the common adult-imposed mess that this thread represents, was to take literally everyone's observation (back when Scouting was popular), that When boys gang together, a Natural Leader always emerges. I simply refused to allow ANY job description to the Natural Leader (or assign them to a Patrol) "until the next scheduled election"... ...which was six months away On the first campout I suggested to the older Scout, "Why don't you take the new Scouts and find a place about a football field away from the rest of the Troop to set up your tents?" In the morning I said "Why don't you go take them for a hike?" This Natural Leader had never experienced the "Real Patrol" Method before, but it clicked right away. This stuff is not as complicated as those "Junior Leader Organizational Charts" make it out to be.

For the history buffs: Dan Beard's Prairie Schooner from his Boy Pioneers handbook: http://inquiry.net/outdoor/spring/prairie_schooner.htm

So the "current BSA program" is designed for adults who favor non-swimmer lifeguards. We certainly do agree on the big picture of Scouting. :-/

If the Scouts choose a non-swimmer as lifeguard, then you "swim" at a splash pad. Likewise for adjusting the applied risk of each Real Patrol to the competency of its Patrol Leader. But as Hillcourt wrote, you explain that to them before they make the obvious bad choice.

1) Most important: Start a cuss jar. The word "Troop" costs a dollar. Apothecus, you owe $8 for your first post alone 2) Next on the "To Do" List: The best feature of the current Patrol Leader Handbook is the spiral binding, which allows you to tear out all the Wood Badge anti-Hillcourt disinformation! So turn to Chapter 3. "Your Patrol and Your Troop" and rip out all those nasty pages: Page 35 with the FAKE Baden-Powell Troop Method quote. Page 36-37 with the Troop Organizational Charts. Page 38 with the Troop Method six month elections. Page 39-40 with the Troop Method "Three Types of Patrols." Page 41-46 with ALL those pretty Troop Method patches. 3) To paraphrase Qwazse, what you have is a 12 Scout Patrol. So why not use Hillcourt's "Real Patrol" Method? a) Use your cuss jar money to get a copy of Hillcourt's Handbook for Patrol Leaders. About $4 on AddAll: http://preview.tinyurl.com/kw4v2a9 b) If you can trust the 16yo, have him camp his Patrol Baden-Powell's 300 feet from the adult Patrol, to simulate the handbook's real Patrol Overnights (Chapter 7). Have him lead his Patrol Hikes without adult helicopters on your monthly campouts, to simulate the handbook's real Patrol Hikes (Chapter 6). c) Try Hillcourt's Patrol Leader course: "Intensive Training in the Green Bar Patrol" http://inquiry.net/patrol/green_bar/index.htm 4) The only real way to train your future Patrol Leaders is for them to experience a "Real Patrol," and you have a rare opportunity to do so. The "Real Patrol" Method is outdoor adventures led by your most competent Scout as Patrol Leader. Everything else is the Troop Method.

Hillcourt's use of "real" is as a technical term. In the "Real Patrol" method, Advancement is not a Method of Scouting, but one of the two elements of the "Activities Method." In other words "7. Advancement" it is a list of "Activities" to do while a Patrol seeks "6. Adventure in the Out-of-Doors." So a Scout who "has completed all the requirements" is teaching younger Scouts while out on patrol. http://inquiry.net/adult/methods/index.htm In the Wood Badge Troop Method, the "Real" Patrol Leader's job is done by the TROOP Guide, or by a stranger at summer camp in an outdoor classroom setting like ItOLS.

That's how I did it. "Arrange to be ... four miles into the middle of nowhere. Scout and patrol have to hike there to present his gear and cook lunch for you. Tell him to bring his blue card..."

The requirements are precisely the program: "The real Patrol Leader will...find that the requirements are not something separate from Scouting. On the contrary, Scouting is the Requirements" (Green Bar Bill). http://inquiry.net/patrol/index.htm

Baloney. 50 years ago (1964), few if any Boy Scouts had ever heard of a backpack waist belt, which changed Delway's back country travel as radically as the invention of the stirrup changed the history of warfare. If anything, the worldwide test of a First Class Scout, a 14 mile overnight backpack Journey with a heavy pack hanging directly off our shoulders, was harder 50 years ago. But the whole point of backpacking is that a Boy Scout's direct experience of nature can be the same now as it was 50 years ago. Note that the "simple reality" apology for Parlor Scouting is a description of front country Patrol camping, not Delway's back country backpacking. As such: 50 years ago we did not take rifles backpacking. Those of us with Svea 123 stoves did not bother with campfires. Or hatchets. Or gathering firewood. No law then or now prohibits unsupervised teenagers from backpacking in national forests (or most state wilderness areas). Such venues are free, not "more expensive." State-of-the-art backpacks from the 70s & 80s can be purchased now for $5. We never stayed in one place for a week in the back country, and no adult ever checked up on us. We did not use public transportation for backpacking: When I got my driver's license we drove 100 miles to the Adirondacks on school vacations (oh, DuctTape, I lost your Email). I know "21st century" Scouts who drive 200 miles after I get them addicted to backpacking. So why can't "21st century trained" Boy Scout leaders tell the difference between a backpacking trip and a Patrol outing? 48 years ago the father of modern Wood Badge, John Larson, won the battle to replace outdoor leadership with indoor leadership: http://www.whitestag.org/history/history.html#1965 So now Wood Badge is designed for Den Mothers, the "Patrol Method" presentation of Scoutmaster training replaces Patrol Leaders with adult-led EDGE theory (nobody noticed), and we pay our Chief Scout Executive a million dollars a year to bash camping. But Delway the good news: If you stick to your guns (and also give your most mature Scouts some freedom on two-deep back country trips), your Troop's backpack program can become popular beyond your wildest dreams. Check out our January backpack "Cumberland Island National Seashore: Day One" (and Day Two) https://plus.google.com/100437668559826261011/posts

Sentinel: There is a leadership term for doing Scouting "the right way." It's called "adding to the requirements."

Did you guys all flunk Wood Badge? Delway's Scout understands the true meaning of "inclusiveness." Ask any Den Leader with a plush toy critter! The whole point of Camping Merit Badge requirement 9b is to get parlor boys to Eagle without ever walking into the woods with packs on their backs. If a Scout hates camping (as it is defined by Baden-Powell), then he can ride his bike around a parking lot for four hours, rappel at the mall, or float downstream for four hours. That's what camping is! Watch any Wood Badger explain our Congressional Charter and you will see that Delway's Scout understands "innovation:" The ability to break the spirit of the law by playing word games with the letter of the law (which is only six words to define the backpack option). I know one adult Eagle who has his Scouts walk around a family campground with empty packs and a pedometer to log the four mile "backpack" for option #2. Another adult Eagle Camping Merit Badge counselor has Scouts walk with empty packs around the block at Scout meetings to accomplish the same end. Now really, why is it that Camping Merit Badge is the only badge with an option for Scouts who hate the subject of the badge? In a perfect world, every indoor Merit Badge would have the same option we give boys who hate camping: "Explain to your merit badge counselor the concepts of simple interest and compound interest, OR float downstream eating cupcakes."

DuctTape, Your quote from the first paragraph of the 1911 Scoutcraft requirements chapter is a paraphrase of the legal "mission" of the BSA, as defined by the statute that grants our corporation an absolute monopoly on Scouting in exchange for that particular Scoutcraft program (as "Scoutcraft" was still defined in 1916): The purposes of the corporation are to promote, through organization, and cooperation with other agencies: 1) The ability of boys to do things for themselves and others, 2) To train them in Scoutcraft, and 3) To teach them patriotism, courage, self-reliance, and kindred virtues, using the methods that were in common use by boy scouts on June 15, 1916 (Congressional Charter). The problem with the law is that it is only enforceable in one direction: The BSA routinely sues competing corporations that use "Scout" terms that are generic in the rest of the world, but who has the legal standing to enforce upon the BSA's First Class Scouts the competency in Scoutcraft skills necessary for a backwoods journey of 14 miles without adult supervision? http://inquiry.net/advancement/tf-1st_require_1911.htm The so-called "Mission Statement" neatly side-steps the terms of our Congressional Charter through Program Neutering: In the name of inclusiveness we replace very specific ("June 15, 1916") outdoor skills with nebulous "ethical choices," upon which all those good indoor program people can agree.

Wood Badge has successfully positioned its history as a transition from dated Scoutcraft skills to "twenty-first century" (1965) corporate "leadership skills." The real transition was to replace one form of leadership skills with another: That would be Hillcourt's "Real" Patrol Leader skills necessary to physically _lead_ a Patrol into backwoods adventure on a regular basis ("patrol" as a verb). Versus: Bruce Tuckmans Troop Method skills to form and storm menus and duty rosters in family campground-sized lots, where Wood Badge helicopters monitor the "controlled failure" of six month Troop election winners.

OK, congratulations! Your Patrols are camped 300 feet apart, and your Patrol Leaders lead Patrol Hikes and Overnights without adult supervision at least once a month (if only in Scout camps on monthly Troop campouts). However, most "supplemental" reading of Hillcourt and Baden-Powell ends up as out-of-context gems that illustrate the deep wisdom of Wood Badge taking power away from Patrol Leaders and giving it to Troop elections, the Troop SPL, and his patronage Troop Method positions, such as multiple Troop ASPLs and multiple Troop Guides.