ASM59

EagleInKY beat me to my point, but I wanted to ask further: Does your son's troop schedule Merit Badges as a part of the Troop meeting? If so, how often? If a Troop is "force feeding" merit badges to the boys, the boys may indeed be taking merit badges that they have no interest in doing. Like Eagle said, this could be the source of his questioning. Hopefully this is not the case and he was just having a 13 year old moment. ASM59

SWScouter, You are correct that these two are related... It can be very rewarding to be an ASM or SM of your own son's troop. I really think it has helped us both. I was my son's Bear & Webelos leader and moved right into Boy Scouts with him as an ASM. It was the advice of our old SM that made me take a back seat where my son was concerned. Back in the day we started in Boy Scouts, the Troop was very much adult lead and therefore I had to be more careful. Now that we have moved into a boy lead situation and my son has grown & matured perhaps this is not as big of a concern (as pointed out by BW). Allowing the other leaders to address situations where they need to be addressed has helped us (my son and me) to find a good balance. We do discuss things in more detail sometimes at home, but for the most part on outings it is the other leaders that take care of anything to do with my son (unless there is some immediate safety issue). When it comes to the Troop that your son will join, perhaps they could really use your input and assistance. Remember, the more adult leadership the Troop has, the fewer outings that you'd really need to go on, thus giving your son the chance to be on some outings without Dad. This also helps the existing leaders as they wouldn't need to be on all outings. Just something to think about. ASM59

Bob, You are exactly right. This is where it has always been hardest. My tendency is to leave the other boys alone and only get involved where necessary (health or safety). It seems to be just that much harder when I'm watching my own son (especially when he is in a leadership position, ASPL or SPL). It seems to work well for us. He knows that I make this effort, and I think he respects the fact that I do it. I also think this has caused him to make more of an effort to do what he knows I would wish. ASM59

SWScouter, you are correct, there must be a balance. See a new thread spun off regarding this for my complete response: http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewthread.asp?threadID=104316

ASM59 wrote: "I tend to let one of the other Scoutmasters attend to any direction or discipline that my son may need. In doing so, no one can say there is favoritism and my son does not feel like I am riding him the whole time on outings." SWScouter wrote: I think this can be a two edged sword. On the one hand, it may accomplish what ASM59 suggests, but on the other, it may appear that the son is favored because the son seems to get away without discipline while the other boys don't. I think this warrants a careful balance. SWScouter, thanks for pointing this out, you are correct. There must be a balance and for sure there are times that I must say something to my son. However, in most instances if I notice that he is doing something that should be corrected, I'll let one of the other leaders know about it and let them take care of it. As a parent, I am on my son all the time at home; get you homework done, clean your room, take out the garbage, clean up your mess... The other boys get a break from home on an outing and get direction from someone other than Mom or Dad. I just want to afford this same opportunity for my son. My tendency would be to get on him more than I would the other boys, so this way of doing things seems to help, but as you point out there is a balance. Do other Scoutmasters out there have a tendency to be harder on your own son? How do you handle this issue so as not to appear to play favorites or make your son feel he must be better than everyone else? ASM59

Eamonn and mmhardy, I will agree that "Disciplinary Action" may not have been the best wording. When I typed it I was thinking of discipline in the sense of instruction, correction or guidance. I go back to my original question: Shouldnt the camp staff have the authority to approach a Scout and request that he not wear objectionable clothing or go to the boys Scoutmaster and ask the Scoutmaster to make the request? In doing so, we are gently correcting a situation. ASM59

Judy, "You'd also think the boy's parents would have said something about not bringing "that" jacket!" Yes, I agree, but then again this boy's mother was one of the adult leaders for his troop for the week of camp; Mom was there the whole time! But should I mention that Mom would wear her sports bra to and from the lake every day and that on Thursday (hottest day of camp) she wore it all day with nothing else over it! This is another area we were not too happy with, and then to find out it is the "boy with the jacket"'s mother. It sounds like I made it all up, but it's the truth... ASM59

Hello, Our Troop is interested in going outside of our home Council next year for Summer Camp. I am looking for recomendations and information regarding Camps in our area. We are located 60 miles Southwest of Chicago, IL. We probably will not be able to travel very far, but would be interested in Camps within 5 to 6 hours away. Any suggestions? Thanks, ASM59

Yes, and if I'd been the one that saw the jacket the second time, I would have asked the boy who his Scoutmaster was and went to see him. However, I was not the one that saw it the second time and it was too late in the day by the time I found out about it. Oddly enough, this boy was never at opening or closing flags, so it was near impossible to figure out which Troop he was with. ASM59

Our Troop just returned a couple of days ago from a week at Summer Camp. Overall it was a great week and our Scouts did a great job. We did have one big disappointment, however. There was a Scout from another Troop at this week of camp that wore a jacket to opening campfire on Sunday evening that had very inappropriate things written on it (out of respect for all, I will not post what was written on the jacket). One of our other adult leaders and I saw the jacket, but could not make out which Troop he belonged to. At the leaders meeting on Monday morning, I brought the issue up with the Camp Director, who told me that he had seen the jacket too. His response was, there is such a thing as freedom of expression and speech. He didnt feel it was his or staffs place to approach the boy. The jacket was again seen on Wednesday (family night). My other leaders and I went to the Council office Thursday morning and reported this to the Council Director who was in effect over the Camp Director. We learned on Friday that the boy was finally approached on Thursday afternoon and told not to wear the jacket anymore. The boy made a few objections, making it clear that he did not agree. We did not see the jacket anymore for the remainder of Camp. My question here is; Shouldnt the camp staff have the authority to approach a Scout and request that he not wear objectionable clothing? At a Church camp that Ive worked at in the past, we have always been instructed to have them turn it inside out, or remove it, or cover it up and not wear it again. The same thing happens at School, remove it, turn it inside out or go home! Why not at Boy Scout Summer Camp? ASM59

Welcome! I trust you'll have a good week. When you get back, let us know how the week went. You should have some great stories to tell. ASM59

Although perfectly acceptable to sign off on your own sons advancements, I tend to agree with some here that this may not be the best practice. If you look in my sons handbook, youll find only a few Tenderfoot requirements signed off by me (one of our Troops ASMs). There are no Second, First, Star, or Life requirements signed off by me. This is pretty much a rule of thumb that we use in our Troop. I am a Counselor for 8 merit badges, but I have counseled my own son in only 2 merit badges in his 4 years as a Boy Scout. I agree with EagleInKY that not everyone looking at my sons handbook would trust that he did the work if Dad signed off on most or all of his requirements. A side note; I take it one step further, in that on outings I tend to let one of the other Scoutmasters attend to any direction or discipline that my son may need. In doing so, no one can say there is favoritism and my son does not feel like I am riding him the whole time on outings (which would be the case as I would expect so much more out of him). Just my thoughts ASM59

Will this be a fund raiser stricly for the Troop? Or will the donations go into the Scouts' accounts? ASM59

Eamonn, It sounds like you're saying we (adults) need to mentor Scouts in their leadership positions. Through the work I've done in our Church's youth group and training I've received; I've come to understand that mentoring can be the most effective way (if not the only effective way) to teach skills like you're talking about here. Mentoring doesnt need to always be a one on one relationship and within the context of Scouting should not be. You allude to relationships that are developed so, Ive included some thoughts below with regard to different kinds of relationships that develop between people and the kinds of power that bind relationships. I think, to be effective in training youth in leadership skills, we should seek a close relationship that is bound by referent power. Then, we have a chance at being able to instill these skills in our Scouts; all within the context of the G2SS of course. Some different kinds of relationships: Acquaintances - built based on general information and memories Casual Friendships - built on common interests and affirmations Close Relationships - built when people are headed in the same direction in life and they go through stretching times together Kinds of power within relationships: Reward power; Power based on rewards offered like giving attention, pay raises, promotions ... Coercive power; Negative reinforcement / Withdrawal of attention, Threats, Punishment Positional power; Society given power based on position like an employer, policeman, teacher ... Expert power; Person(s) with special knowledge or skill such as accepting an attorney's advice based on his education and experience. Referent power; Power given from the student based on; wanting to be like you, respect for who you are, liking you, and wanting to be liked by you. ASM59

I'll keep them in my prayers... Repost when they get back, and let us know how the trip was. And yes, I agree, it does seem to get more difficult. Maybe it's the process of letting go, trusting your child's own judgement, doubting that you've prepared them properly, etc. We had two of our children reach 18 this year, graduate from High School, and now getting ready for college. We feel your pain! Take care, ASM59

In a leadership seminar at our church, it was stated that there are 4 types of people: VIP Very Important People - Skilled and motivated These people just need some encouragement and direction. They are ready to go directly into leadership. VTP Very Trainable People - Motivated, but need training These people are motivated and willing, but just need training. May only be ready and willing for a short time, the window of opportunity to reach and teach these people may only be a short time. VNP Very Nice People - Nice, but they don't do much These people just sit there; they need to have teachings and concepts thrown at them until they are ready to grasp ahold of them and are ready to begin doing something. VDP Very Draining People - They have continual problems & They rely on your emotional energy These people dont just have problems, they have continual problems. If they take your advice, theyll come back with another problem or stating that the solution just doesnt work for them. They can become dependant on you, relying on your emotional energy; becoming a drain on you. Can these categories apply to Scouts? How about adult leaders? ASM59

To echo what BW said, there are those who come here to learn. I have learned much by hanging around here, mostly reading posts. We seem to be having "fun" in our Troop for the first time; it's not as much a struggle now. I credit that fun to getting things in their proper place according to the way set forth in the BSA materials and training. And I must credit a lot of our being able to do that to the advise of members here (at least the 12 that BW mentioned). In re-reading my last post, I want to explain that I was not intending to slam the BSA training as much as my own perception or inability to implement the training. Maybe there needs to be a special training seminar for people coming from my background. It was hard to grasp hold of the concepts when they were so opposed to the way we "had always done things". It is scary to make such radical changes, and there in lies the problem and why people find it so hard to implement and so easy to resist (IMHO). ASM59

Hello, We have had similar struggles to get "on board" with the whole program. I know where you are coming from; had all the required training, but still confused about how to implement it. I saw a book mentioned here in one of the forums: "The Scoutmaster's Other Handbook" by Mark A. Ray http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0965120732/ Reading his take of implementing the patrol method and others, was somewhat ground-breaking for our Troop. When I read the book, I recognized things that were called out in training, but the way he explained them and the examples he gave seemed to make much more sense. I think there is something to say about the way BSA delivers some of the training and how useful that training is. I know people who find the training most useful; but thats because they are a part of a Troop that is functioning (or at least attempting to) properly. Consider my case, where I started as an ASM in a Troop that was not boy lead but totally SM lead. Then, with a leadership change, we found ourselves with all new adult leadership (Committee and Scoutmasters). I think we are on the right track now, but have a way to go. Again, I think some of the examples and explanations in the above mentioned book will continue to help us. ASM59

OK, I'll ask the question; regarding the missing Scout Brennan Hawkins. Do you as a leader at summer camp use the buddy system? It is very common to see leaders and staff on the trail alone. We typically only have two leaders at summer camp with 12-15 boys. Typically program areas are not shown during orientation and there is no time before dark to make sure new scouts know where the program areas are. What do you do when all scouts are off to their first merit badge class Monday morning and three or four don't know how to get to the "Nature Center", and another couple of boys don't know how to get to "Leatherworking"; and you or your co-leader need to get to the Scoutmaster's meeting all at the same time? You will usually find our two leaders going separate directions in that case and meeting up later. Which means finding us alone without a buddy! ASM59

Good day, I received a special Fathers Day card this year. It came from two boys who don't have a father in their lives. Their mother is a close friend of the family and the older son (11 yr old) is one of the Scouts in our Troop (younger son is 9 yr old). Our Family has included the boys on a couple of Family outings and my son and I have included them in some fishing outings. The card was titled, "You're Like a Father to Us". Inside was a short thank you for spending time with them and for "just being there", signed by the boys. I always cherish the time spent with my own children and the cards that they have given me in the past...this card has found its way into the box containing all the cards that I've kept over the years. It's amazing that just a little time spent can mean so much more to one of these little ones. ASM59

"The patrol system is not one method in which Scouting for boys can be carried on. It is the only method.'" Lord Baden-Powell See the following link: http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/resources/18-800/lowroad.cgi I think you can get some good bullet points here. ASM59

Hello, and welcome. My take on this situation is a bit different. If you start as a Tiger Den leader this year, you'll get attached to the boys in your den and they to you. When your son starts next year, do you plan to be his Den leader? If so, your Pack will need to find another leader for the boys you had this year. Or, you'll need to pull double duty and lead two dens of different age boys. If you really want to get some experience, I'd advise joining the Pack Committee this year and volunteer to help in a Den. Then, next year you'll be ready to jump in as your son's Den Leader and you'll already be a registered member of the Pack. Just my thoughts, ASM59

Eamonn, You've sparked my curiosity. I knew all these positions existed withing the Council & District, but I never questioned their roll with individual units. I have worked with our Scout Troop for more than 4 years now, and prior to that, I was on the committee of our local Pack and a Den Leader for 3 years. Up until last year, I didn't even know who our District Commissioner or Unit Commissioner was. I think I need to review these positions and the roll that they have so we can make use them as resources should we need to in the future. Time to pull out the books again; maybe go to training again... ASM59

Mark, Our Troop had a changing of the guard last year; new SM, almost the entire committee, and all but one ASM's are new. It has been a rough start for everyone and unfortunately we inherited a troop that was not truely boy lead, everything was SM initiated. We've been struggling to become more of a boy lead unit, we're getting there, but not quite there yet. Whenever our PLC gets an idea, as long as it is consistent with Scouting principles, we encourage them to run with it and give them whatever support we can. So, in addition to the usual MB selections, our SPL and ASPL want to instruct the kids on how and why we need to show "patrol method" in our campsite at camp. Our troop has never created an entry way (gate) into the campsite at camp and they want to discuss this and see if any of the boys have ideas for what and how to construct one. None of our three patrols have patrol flags, so they want to have the patrols design and make patrol flags for this year. There is more they want to do, but not all of it will be realized before summer camp this year. So, they have set aside 3 full meetings for camp preparation. We are in a unique situation in that this whole patrol methodology and boy leadership is finally clicking with the boys. It's great to see them get excited about it. I hope this helps to explain why we need more than one prep meeting... ASM59

Our Troop generally offers a two-night outing in the months of January~June & August~November. In July we offer summer camp and in December, we typically have a day outing (last year to the zoo). Of our 20 active scouts, we typically average around 14 on our regular outings. 5 of our scouts will not miss an outing unless very sick. The rest are tied up from time to time with school, sports, & family activites. If not for these activities, there would be more attending because they really do get upset about missing. If you go to every other month outings those who have to miss one will have 4 months between outings. When offering monthly outings that are truely boy initiated and led, I think you'll always get a good/consistent turn out. One thing that I'd like to stress, as was already mentioned, is that it should not be absolutely necessary for a SM or SPL to make every single outing. Getting enough good adult leadership (ASM's) should allow the SM to take a break from some outings. The SPL should try to make as many outings as possible, but expecting him to make every meeting may keep a good leader from accepting the position. Just my thoughts, ASM59