kraut-60

As a youth in Scouting, it would be hard to forget any of the 5 summer camps I was at with my troop. Getting tapped out and the ordeal during the summer camp of 1972 is prominent in my memory. Having my Dad serve as the troops Scoutmaster was/is a great memory. Here in the present day...last years trek at Philmont seems to replay in memory nearly every day and never seems to get old...yet. Having the opportunity to be the district Roundtable commisioner and having good, positive feedback from Scouters attending Roundtable. Watching my son mature and becoming more responsible as a result of what he's learned in Scouting. Becoming an Asst. Troop leader for my daughters Girl Scout troop...and seeing the excitement these young ladies project as they plan and prepare for hiking, camping...and in thier words "real scout stuff".

The winter '07 catalog on page 32 shows a youth member wearing a pair of switchback pants as well as the long sleeved action shirt and is holding one of the new Stetson Campfire hats. This photo shows how attractive the new pants, the action shirt and the new hats are as well as how these parts all match and complement each other. I would not hesitate to encourage Scouts to wear such an activity uniform for most outdoor activities. I would wear this myself. I would keep the current field uniform for more indoors or parade wear as it is well-suited for such events. If this combination proves to be popular with Scouts for outdoor wear, then we should get behind it and support it. When we are recognizable as Scouts in the publics eye, it only helps the movement grow as youth who are not(yet)Scouts, may find such a uniform an incentive to join and become an active Scout. It has recently been noted here in these forums that the uniform method is an outdoor method. Wearing this activity uniform would seem to support that claim. I am glad that several options are becoming availible to encourage Scouts and Scouters to wear uniforms that are functional as well as distinct enough to identify the wearer as part of the Scout movement.

I took a crew (district crew made up from 3 troops) last year to Philmont. We were crew 731-F, and we took trek #9 which was in the northern part of the ranch. Part of our itinerary included a side hike to Mt. Baldy on day 8. We hiked Mt. Baldy by backtracking the switchback trail we hiked into Copper park trail camp from Greenwood canyon. Where the newer trail into Copper park starts, you will find yourself in a small saddle between the highest elevations on that trail. There is a trail that starts there that bears SW and upward through light fir trees eventually breaking into clear area that is best described as an alpine meadow. This area is thick with rock fragments and moss and lichens but is easy to hike on and has a spectacular view...you may literally find yourself in the clouds as you will be at about 11600-11800 ft. While on this route, you will constantly have Mt. Baldys N-NW face in plain view. Prior to ascending the NW face via what I'd describe as a "Ranger" trail...medium sized fractured rock (very stable and easy to hike), you will find yourself at the remains of an old mine head...long abandoned but intact with the exception of the roof. This a good place to eat lunch, but remember..No entering the mine! Philmont rules are very stringent on this. We were on top of Baldy using this route by about 1130 am having hiked out of Copper park at around 8am....and our crew was a "junior" crew on our first trip to Philmont. We descended Baldy by taking the steep and gravel strewn trail that is the main trail from Baldy town. I wish we had gone down the route we took up as the trail to Baldy town is little more than a river of well rounded and loose medium to small rocks all well rounded from constant use and erosion, it took us about 4 hours to get to Baldy town from the peak using this trail. The hike back to Copper park was mostly uphill and features a trail segment that is 100% mine tailings and is washed out to a perfact V shape...not very enjoyable to traverse. I will encourage you to plan lots of training hikes with all the gear you plan to take along to Philmont. Have yorself and your crew wear the boots and clothing you'll be wearing while hiking Philmont. Train lots now, then train some more. By being prepared you and your crew will enjoy Philmont...not just survive it. You are about to take a journey you'll NEVER forget. Feel free to PM or e-mail me with any specific questions.

I will have to back up Anarchists post where he mentioned "involved" meals that require extensive prep and cooking/clean-up time. I have seen one instance where our troop had a slot for a "troop shoot" at the camp rifle range after dinner. Well, the dinner was a complicated one and long story short... we ended up sending the boys off to shoot while several volunteered to do clean-up out of the usual duty rotation. We have had good results in having our Scouts guide the menu planning by first considering what events and timetables are on any given outing or campout. We have used the hot-water boil-in the bag omelettes with great sucess when the morning was going to be very busy/involved. The Iron chef style sunday breakfast is one that takes more time , but its done when we can afford to take a little longer. We also stress prior to the event preparation,..ie; fry and drain bacon 2 or 3 days before heading out to an event. Cooking bacon and recovering from the mess it generates when done in a camping environment can be best described as a real hassle and waste of time, and does not appreciably add anything to the experience of cooking in the field. Do the dirty work at home, enjoy the time outside in activity...not degreasing pots,pans and dishes.

I was at Philmont this past year (crew 7-31F), and I will second Gerns suggestion of holding off on buying gear for now. I would have your nephew work and save his bucks to go gear shopping in the spring of 2008. If he gets it now, it probably wont fit him then. I would suggest not sparing any cost when it comes to personal wear, its too late to buy the good stuff when you're on day 2 or 3 out on the trail. For pants, I would have used the new SwitchBacks Scout pants had they been availible, but I made do with comparable pants from Gander Mt. 2 pairs of pants would do fine. Performance underwear; dont send him with any cotton underwear, he'll be wearing a pair for 3-4 days between changes. I know this sounds gross, but a member of a crew usually only has space for 2-3 spare pairs in his pack. get Underarmour, it works and is offered with anti microbial treatment and does not chafe, it works...trust me I wore a pair of them for 4 days with no chafing or rashes. Boots; get them at least 4 months before the trek so he can break them in while practicing with his crew. I prefer Vasque boots, I had no blisters with my pair. Get GOOD hiking socks and polypro liners, again spend the bucks...his feet are ALL he can depend on to carry him at Philmont. Do the layering thing! Have a pair of light weight polypro longies to sleep in and for wear if it gets cold (as it can even in August). Get a wool sweater or a fleece jacket for the warmth layer. A light weight wool shirt is a good item to have also, or the newer BSA activity shirt-long sleeved...it breathes and will keep him warm as well as cooler if worn alone. A good breathable fabric QUALITY rainsuit that is packable or comes in a stuff sack....speaking of stuff sacks, he'll need to have a single medium size stuffer to use for his personal smellables to go up in the nightly bear-bag. He could make good use of a couple of other stuff sacks to sort out and keep his pack orderly ( one large bag for crew gear and several medium to small ones for personal gear) and the squeeze down packing bags for keeping clothing dry as well as minimized for size. These bags work by packing in the clothes, then rolling the bag to squeeze the air out. A good hydration sysytem like a 2 qt Platypus brand will serve him well, a couple of Nalgenes too. A bowl, cup and spoon (all plastic) and he's set to eat. A good wide brimmed hat....think Expedition hat that is sold in the Scout catalog, they are wool and have a sweatband as well as a chin strap...it gets windy sometimes, dont wanna chase a hat off the peak of Mt. Baldy. I know this is getting long, so I'll finish (for now) by also reminding him to have a wool knit cap and gloves. Wool works and works even when wet. Again, leave the cotton stuff home or in the locker at basecamp,...well, a crew t-shirt are ok but they will be so dirty and smelly they'll hike by themselves by day 6.

SR540 beaver; My apologies! I didnt intend to slight Spongebob or disrespect the dear little animated sub-surface dweller and friend of children the world over,...No, all I wanted to impart is that I would not wear or otherwise endorse anything that bears its likeness....I am not a fan but I dont begrudge others who are. I would consider wearing the Grinch, providing of course that it would be rendered tastefully, and bearing in mind that the Grinch had a heart and actually put it to good use.

acco-40; yes, cotton sleeping pants. I had along wool pants as a spare pair or to wear if it got too cold over night, but I was very warm and comfortable in the cotton sleep/lounging pants...they had a plaid pattern on them...I cant bring myself to wear this style of pants with any NASCAR,NFL,NBA,MLB,etc...endorsements and NO WAY will I wear anything with spongebob on it! As long as the cotton loungers are kept dry, they are adequate for the purpose they are designed for, sleeping. Ive got to agree with SR540 with regards to the bag only retaining heat, if the opposite were true, it would be like having an air conditioned bag at summer camp...WAY COOL!

Just a quick note to relate that using the new "SwitchBacks" Scout uniform pants with polypropelene long underwear bottoms will keep you warm and comfortable while staying active when outside in a Wisconsin winter. I wore the above named combination this last weekend while setting up our camp for our districts Klondike derby. They have good freedom of movement and snow seems to brush off and dry better than jeans or regular scout pants. After we were sst up and sitting around, I could tell the temp was falling and that sitting wasnt generating any self-heat, so we retreated into our sleeping bags for the night. It was 0 degrees at 10 pm and -5 degrees when we got up at 6am. I had along some older wool pants but didnt use them as the SwitchBacks and polypro worked real well together. I wore them the next day while staffing the kitchen and didnt overheat in them as they seem to shed excess heat rather well also. Its nice to find a pair of pants that seem adaptable to most conditions.

Scuse me! I meant to type 400 gram Thinsulate, not 4000 gram. Sorry.

Greetings all! Just got back from our districts Klondike. I tented out on friday night up here at Camp Indian Trails just outside Janesville WI. We used my old Coleman Montana 5 man 12'x7' tent. I put down a 4mil sheet of plastic after we tromped down the snow (dry powder), then we pitched the tent over that. Inside the tent went sheets of 1" styrofoam insulation rated R-5. Over that we broke open and spread out 2 bales of fresh straw and covered the straw with sheets of cardboard cut to fit the tents dimensions. I slept with my Thermorest inside an older down bag with my Slumberjack 40 degree bag lined with one of the flannel/fleece cheapo sleeping bags availible from the big box type stores. Over all that were 2 surplus army 100% wool blankets. I wore my polypro longies, a cotton L/S shirt,a pair of cotton sleeping pants, a surplus German army sweater, A pair of UnderArmour coldgear boot socks, a wool scarf and wool knit cap. Stayed very comfortable and warm, and temps were 0'F at 10pm and -5'F at 6 am this morning. There were 2 others in my tent with me, all went well and no one needed to hit the spare gear bag which had spare wool pants,socks,sweaters, etc.. We had a propane 2 burner stove to heat water and had quik-n-easy on the menu, Cup-o-noodles,Swiss Miss and instant coffee, it hit the spot and clean up was a snap. Only thing I'll do different next year is skip the large diet Dew at the Taco Johns on the road and the 2 cups of joe after the tent and gear were up and ready...the head calls at 1am and 5am were....well they were just cold...I'm glad I had a new pair of Red Wing Irish Setters with 4000 gram Thinsulate to traipse through the snow in.

I will have to jump aboard and recomend the Vasque boots. I bought my pair in April '06 to wear at Philmont in July/August. tried on many pairs while wearing liner socks and hiking socks,...tromped around the store and up and down the stairs for 10-15 minutes,...made sure I could make "fists" with my toes,..got a pair that fit GREAT! Wore those same boots from April till we left July 30 to go to Philmont. Hiked 70 miles at Philmont rotating scoks daily,..had no trouble with my feet...No blisters,..not one. Spend the bucks on GOOD socks and Vasque boots, your daughter will thank you. Oh, I bought my boots and socks at a store called Sherpers. They have a store in Hales Corners and Oconomwoc WI. They have a Scout night in the spring when the discounts are to be had as well as factory reps with deals on gear,..plus the clerks KNOW their merchandise!

I have a situation in the troop I serve in that involves a boy I have known since he was a Cub Scout who isnt interested anymore with Scouting, in fact I have seen his disinterest as far back as 3 years ago. This Scout is presently a Life Scout and is very active in sports and is an exceptional young athlete for his age (15). He has stopped attending meetings and Scout oriented events in favor of sporting participation. Recently, this boys father had been very sick and was hospitalized. I am noting that because his Dad was the Troop committee chairman and ensured his son attended troop meetings. Since before Christmas, the former CC has been pushing the SM to allow his son to do his Eagle project and what MB's that remain so his son can "get his Eagle" before he turns 16. The dad has sent numerous e-mails to the SM and the TC and COR outlining why his son needs to circumvent the requirements to be active and serve in a position of responsibility. He (the dad) feels that his son was active for the 6 months since Life rank and that he no longer needs be active on the troop or with his patrol. The Scouts time when he was in his POR as ASPL was found to be lacking as he didnt carry out the duties that the office entails. Really all this boy did was show up, and sit at the table at the front of the room. His support for the SPL was minimal to none. Our SM, ASM(myself) and our COR discussed his lack of performance and agreed that he didnt do much more than wear the ASPL insignia. My own son who is friends with this boy has told me "Dad,**** told me he doesnt wanna be in Scouts, but his Dad makes him go". This boys dad has also e-stated that if his son doesnt get his Eagle this summer, then he will never get it once he turns 16 and is driving. He has said that we can drop them from the charter if the SM doent sign off on his sons afore mentioned requirements he lacks at this time. I feel this is a case of the father wanting the rank more than the boy does. This boys older brother was an Eagle Scout as well as the father. Whats truly perplexing here is that this Scouter would try to get a rank for his son whos clearly not interested in achieving it on his own. This boy is a good boy who seems to be following a dream or trail his dad doesnt seem to take the same pride from that his son can. I hate seeing this as this man was a good Scouter. I dont expect those who read this to offer any way to "fix" this as I dont see that the boy needs any "fixing", he has found purpose and a sense of acomplishment in an activity outside of Scouting that is good and carrys rewards as well as the positve involvement Sports programs offer. I can only applaud this boy for his dedication and determination to be a good athlete and team member. My sympathy now is to the dad for trying to "get" his sons rank of Eagle, when clearly the boy doesnt seek it. Sad.

The SM insignia are refered to as "collar brass" as they are intended to be worn on the collar of the Scouter uniform coat that was last made in the 1960's. It was a tunic style coat with 2 chest pockets and 2 lower pockets. Overall the coat follows the cut and stle of the US Army dress blouse. The latest versions had the Boy Scouts of America program strip sewn above the right pocket. The collar brass was worn on the upper points of the coat collar, 1/2" in and 3/4" up from the bottom of the upper collar point. Uniform regs from the period when they were current issue specifically prohibited them from being worn on the shirt collar. As with all regs, I'm sure this was regularly flouted and the pins were worn where the owner desired. Sometimes these coats come up for sale on eBay. Hope this helps kahits. scoutldr's suggestion of obtaining and wearing an older uniform might be something to consider. I have 2 older uniforms that are complete and best of all they fit...now to just get the right badges for the period and sew them on.

dsantos; The field cap AKA "flat hat/garrison cap" was /is intended to be draped over the belt of the uniform with the emblem visible. This comes from the uniform regs during the period when this cap was availble from the Supply Division. The sash should NEVER be worn draped over the belt of the uniform. The sash is only worn over the right shoulder with its lowest part resting across the wearers left waist/hip area. While I havent found any documentation to suggest where the Scout red beret was to stowed on the wearers person when not being worn, I would feel that it would be stowed best under the shoulder strap of the uniform shirt..left seems to be most popular . The beret was originally brought into use while we were still wearing the older olive green shaded uniforms. These shirts did not have shoulder straps, so Scouts were left to their imagination as to where to "park" their beret when it wasnt on their head. I never had a beret as I was and still am a flat hat wearer. I tried a beret on at the local JC Penneys (remember.. they used to sell uniforms) and didnt care for how I looked with it on. Glad to hear of another Scouter keeping older uniform traditions alive...our pal John from KC does say the beret is dead. From your post it would seem its still kicking....ITS ALIVE!!!Run for your boonie hats!

I know there are many Scouters who have served in our armed forces and have much to contribute to Scouting from their experiences while in uniform. These contributions should not include training Scouts in matters and subjects that are military oriented and geared away from the BSA program. I have had to work hard at having the military influence limited to eliminated in the troop I serve in. The biggest problem was not an adult, but a Scout who insisted on mixing Scout and military uniform parts. This same Scout also used military issue web gear and a pack in getting ready for hiking and camping. I chose to let this Scout use the mil-type web gear and pack. I did this because I felt this Scout would learn better from discovering how heavy and ill-suited such gear is for use in Boy Scouting. On a hike across the bluffs at Devils Lake WI, this Scout, who is small statured...found out how poor his choice in gear was within 2 miles of starting the hike...he complained how his stuff was too heavy,..it was bouncing and banging all over,....the straps are digging into my shoulders. He had a miserable hike. This same Scout is now the SPL in our troop, and he still admires most everything military, but he now knows that the gear isnt the best choice for boys to use. He no longer mixes military and BSA uniform parts as I asked him what he would think of seeing a soldier,sailor,airman or Marine wearing Scout uniform parts with a regulation military uniform? He replied it would look wrong. I then reminded him that its just as wrong to wear Scout and military uniform together. When Scouts are to march in parades, I feel teaching the boys how to march in step and look smart in public arent wrong or too military. Presenting a smart appearance isnt only for the armed forces, by taking pride in how we appear does generate good self esteem and esprit de corp. I served 20 years on active duty in our Navy,...I look forward to serving as long or longer with our Scouts.

I consider anything coming from Fred Phelps and the ilk that are his congegation to nothing more than a steaming pile of lies and twisted excerpts from the Bible. He is indeed the extreme when it comes to defining our rights in this the finest nation on earth. In earlier times his poisinous spewing would not have been tolerated for very long...sadly I have to agree that violence against this creature or his mis-guided flock would accomplish little of real value. Seeing as a post here refered to Phelps advanced age and his immenent death..I take solace in imagining Phelps spending eternity in a reasonably warm place with notables such as Adolf Hitler,Josef Stalin,Tojo and soon to be in residence...Saddam Hussein...yeah ole Fred will be right at home with those creeps, they can all compare notes on why they hate as they did/do.

While I dont intend to jump in here and take one side or the other,..I can see one potential problem that will be apparent...The rank insignia is based on an oval of khaki tan twill material and will look rather out of place on a green uniform shirt. I recall that there existed a Star rank insignia with a background cloth that matched the older Explorer program uniforms (Life Scout rank back in the day had no background cloth..the Heart shape was all there was along with the 1st class superimposed on it). The only cloth rank insignia that will look correct will be the Eagle rank emblem in cloth. I suppose the metal pin-on emblems for Star and Life could be used. I have witnessed several instances where the green shoulder loops have been worn on the tan BSA shirt. The most unusual was when the uniforms were being worn by several young ladies on their way to Philmont this last summer. The girls were/are a part of a Venturing crew from what they told me and had used the uniforms as an expedient as they had not gotten their own uniforms and in fact were borrowing the tan uniforms they were wearing on the train...one girls shirt had a ASM patch on the sleeve...she said it was her Dads shirt. While I know that what the young ladies were wearing was not in keeping with the uniform and insignia regs...I didnt feel it to be my place to correct them, heck I'm just glad to see our youth members of any of our programs wearing the full uniform. Sure...inspection perfect would be desirable....but the reality is that most folks dont stick to the letter of the law. I would rather have Scouts and Scouters in an almost correct uniform than no uniform at all. I consider myself to be a "uniform" guy..I go to the length and extent necessary to be in correct and full uniform...but that is just me...ok, I suppose spending 20 years on active duty in the USN might have something to do with my willingness to be uniformed correctly...I think it looks way cool too!

Hi John in KC, I have one of the Nortern Tier Scout jackets on my Christmas list and am glad to read your post regarding the quality of this product. I have seen a jacket posted on e-Bay that was claiming to be a Northern Tier jacket and it did indeed have the lower slash pockets but also had a half belt on the waist of the coat on the back. Does the jacket you purchased for your son have the belt? While I have your attention, I would also like to know if this jacket is longer than the Supply division one made by Woolrich? Thanks for your time John,...Merry Christmas, YiS Will Kirchmayer, T131 Glaciers Edge council.

If a Scouter SM,ASM etc..would ask a Scout a question regarding his uniform and intend it to embarass the Scout, then that Scouter would be wrong and would need to amend that type of behavior. If the same Scouter were to ask the same question in a way that shows the Scout that the Scouter cares about the Scout and his appearance and is only asking to possibly help the Scout,...is this also "embarrassing"? A leader showing concern for a Scouts appearance/advancement/well-being...etc should be seen as a hallmark of a good leader.

My old high school had been built in 1911. The floors creaked and one could tell by the sound of the creak which floor and where the person causing the creak was walking. The interior of the offices and classrooms had built in cupboards and drawers of hardwood as well as wooden trim and blackboards built into the walls. It was a grand old building, and only now do I cherish the memory of it. When I was there as a student I felt like many young high school students....When can I get out of here? That school was torn down in 1982 and was replaced by a modern school on the same site. It has since become the local middle school and an even newer high school has been erected across town. Omly one school building that I attended as a youth is still being used in its intended role and my daughter is in the 5th grade there now. It doesnt resemble the school I remembered as it has been added on to and remodeled, but some of it looks familiar. Nothing seems to last forever, every ship I served on has been decommisioned. The best looking one was sank as a target, the one I got in the most trouble on has been scrapped, the ship with the best command is hoping to be saved for a memorial, and the first one I went to sea in is now in the Taiwanese Navy...serving in its intended purpose. I will have to be content with the memories of those places and things no longer around, and treasure those that are still here....for now.

SSScout; I would suggest just treating those boys who are in uniform and let the message be sent by deed versus word. In my expeience, most Scouts tend to forget any type of warning regarding those areas of Scouting not immediatly perceived as being "fun", and uniforms seem to fall into the "not-fun" category for most Scouts. WVCubDad; I have had similar experience when I too was a Cub den leader. I wore my uniform to everything Scout natured, and was asked if I owned any civilian clothes by a fellow den leader once. My wife has never had a problem in spending for Scout uniforms. Her only request is that the uniform be worn to all Scout functions so as to justify the cost and to get our monies worth from the uniform before its outgrown. I always have to wonder when I see a Scout come to the weekly meeting in just the tan shirt or a troop/camp t-shirt when I know the Scout owns a complete uniform but seems to busy to bother with it. In the new TLT (Troop Leader Training) course, I point out to the new boy leaders that they should ALWAYS set the example by being in a complete uniform. Some Scouts arent sure why this is important, but I then ask if they are in or have been in sports or band. Most have been in one or both. I then ask how would the coach or director react if they had shown up to a practice/game or performance not dressed correctly. Most seem to "get it" and then understand why a junior leader SHOULD be completely uniformed. I really wish that the new "Swithbacks" Scout uniform pants were availible for the Cub Scouts in their uniform shade of blue. These pants have been very well received by the Scouts I have seen wearing them and in my sons case, he has worn them for every thing including going to school. Perhaps if the Cub Scouts can get these new pants, more parents would be willing to buy them. I see only one complaint parents have and that is the length of the zip-offs and that what to do as the boy grows. Any ideas out there?

I am an example as I serve as ASM. I should always wear a complete uniform, not just selected parts of the uniform. This is the attitude I have adopted for myself in my role in Scouting. I encourage my fellow adult scouters to share my example. I also instruct and encourage the SPL/ASPL/PL/APL,s that I am training in the Troop Leader Training program to be a good example by first being complete in uniform and then in their actions and duties to the scouts they are leading. I would like nothing better than to see the scouts in the troop I serve appear in complete uniform to all events suitable for wearing a complete uniform,...however I can only hope for this result,..the best method to encourage it is still being a good example. We normally offer scouts in complete uniform a candy treat at the end of our troop meetings,...the treats are the halloween fun size and we give 1 treat for uniform shirt, 1 for scout pants with belt and 1 more treat for uniform socks. Hat and neckerchief can also garner an additional treat. We havent run out of candy yet....but we may someday. Being a reasonably silent example seems to work, no one wants to be nagged about what they wear. I once had one scouts mother not recognize me as she had only seen me for the better part of a year wearing only my uniform, not the civvies I was wearing while shopping at the supermarket.

It was back in the summer of '72, and I was at summer camp with my troop at Two Bear Scout camp near Weyerhauser Wisconsin. It was late evening and the guys were starting to turn in as the SM had announced that it was 10pm..hit your sack! I was detailed to douse the fire, but before I did I was gonna have a few more 'mallers ( thats 'sconsin for marshmallow). There I was squatting near the fire with the bag of 'mallers at my feet with the fire all to my self and the quiet was soothing. I heard a slight rustle behind me which I dismissed as someone in their tent moving around or rollong over. Suddendly, I noticed a black and white furry thing getting familiar with the bag of 'mallers. The black and white critter was of course a skunk who had come up from behind me and was now enjoying 'mallers while parked directly under neath my squatting form. Being quite petrified with fear of forever smelling like a Pepe de pugh, I managed the trick of freezing my bodys motion to even include breathing. The SM yelled from his tent just about then about finally dousing the fire...I thought I would have had a heart attack...luckily the skunk backed away from the 'mallers and back to where skunks went at Two bear when the werent stealing food and bringing on premature gray hair in 14 year old scouts. Nobody believed me the next day when I told them what happened...until later that night when one of the new tenderfoots stashed a Baby-Ruth in his pack and Pepe paid a visit to his pack in his tent..he didnt get eau de skunk..but his tent mate claimed he generated his own rather unique odor when he discovered the uninvited guest.

Hey there AnEagle, welcome to the wonderful and healthy world of those who hike! So far you have gotten some excellent advice here, and while I'm not an expert hiker (and didnt stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night), I did hike at Philmont this year and would like to share a few of the things I learned that make hiking a very rewarding and healthy thing to partake in. If you intend to hike often and for increasing distances, please do your feet and self a BIG favor and get yourself a pair of really good hiking boots. Do avoid the low priced hikers found at K-mart and Wally World. Your feet and general comfort are what you should consider when choosing a hiking boot...NOT price, spend the bucks...I did and had no blisters or sore feet while hiking at Philmont or even after. Break your new boots in gradually, and buy real hiking socks...cotton tube socks will kill your feet and leave you miserable. Good hiking gear is not cheap,..but taken good care of, will last and keep you in good shape. I am in the habit of taking my pack with me when I hike. I normally ALWAYS carry rain gear/first aid kit(Generic ankle and knee braces just in case)/3-4 lt of H2O/spare dry clothes in a ziploc bag/compass/flashlight/matches/stocking cap-scarf-gloves(Hey,I live in Wisconsin) and my hiking stave. A good hiking stave(stick or staff) makes the walk easier for me and carries emergency gear as its a hollow steel tube with rubber sealed ends..weighs about 2.5 lbs...see huttersales on e-bay. I also strongly reccomend wearing suplex nylon or polypro/wool outer wear,...this stuff will dry fast and keep you warm even if wet. Get under armour type skivvies..again cotton kills..not to mention chafes and retains body moisture..yuck! I know it sounds like I take too much stuff for some folks...but the first law of hiking is be prepared...the second is you carry it in, you carry it out..dont take anything you are not willing to carry for the duration of the hike. Hiking alone does provide a solitude rather absent in todays world, however hike marked trails and let someone know where you are going...be safe not sorry. Set the cel phone to vibrate...I keep mine in a holder on the chest strap of my pack so as to not have to "dig" for it. Wear a wide brimmed hat or a cap that shades your eyes. Have a sweat rag, or keep a few wet wipes in a ziploc to freshen up. Keep a "doggy" bag with a ziploc outer bag for the unexpected call of nature...only those who permanantly reside in the wild get to leave their calling card there, or hold it til you can get to a "red-roof inn". I'm getting way too wordy here, plus know I want to go hiking... the suns out and I know a good trail 5 minutes from here...Later!

My,my..is this ever an interesting and heated thread. I wont delve into the my politics are better than your politics part as I tend to believe that trying to convince another person of the merits of one views and political preferences is quite like trying to talk a Chevy fan into buying a Ford...its like trying to teach a pig to sing...wastes your time and pisses off the pig. I believe that we the citizens of this fine nation, are in a war just as deadly and with as much to win, or lose as all other wars we have fought. I feel we should do WHATEVER is required to win....the alternative IS NOT an option. I served 20 years in our countrys Navy and fought against Iranian forces in the Persian Gulf in April 1988. I have been shot at and missed by those then our enemy, I thank God our aim and equipment was FAR better than theirs. In time of war, no quarter should be offered,expected or given to those who would bring death to ANY US citizen, whether here at home or abroad, whether civilian or service member. I do not feel any sympathy for those we have captured bearing arms against us, and I cannot see extending the courtesy of what an enemy POW would get as these detainees were taken as irregular forces..IE; non-combatants found under arms. These people are not uniformed members of a standing armed force of a nation we are in conflict with, and therefore without rights of any kind. I personally believe we should not have brought these detainees to Guantanomo. They should have been executed where they were captured as civilians found under arms which I believe is allowed under the Geneva conventions rulings on conducting a war. This precedent exists as the US Army so dealt with German citizens found under arms both during the closing days of WW2 and the active occupation of the late 1940's.