kraut-60

I havent heard if the WBC showed up or not. When these creatures slither up to the funeral of one of our fallen service members and spout their mis-guided trash...its a terrible experience for the family and friends of those being honored for the ultimate sacrifice for our nation...but to even contemplate the effect these creatures would have on the families and friends of 13 and 14 year old boys is nearly unthinkable! The Scouts who lost their lives were seeking shelter from the storm. They were not serving in the armed forces...but they were serving their country by their membership and participation in the BSA. I cant begin to imagine the nightmare losing a child would feel like, but to think the parents of those boys having to endure the fact their sons are gone...and then have the likes of Phelps and the cretins and hate-mongering zealots he leads spread their poison and hateful diatribe within sight and hearing of the gravesides of those boys is truly beyond my ability to comprehend...much less envision. Why the WBC continues to exist on American soil is indeed a mystery...if God hate America, and these @$$#*^"$ are American citizens, then by their own twisted reasoning...they must hate themselves...perhaps they could take the path Jim Jones and his flock took? Grape or Cherry Kool-Aid Fred?

...You're playing trivial pursuit (original edition) with the Scouts during a winter cabin camp out...and you are winning...as they are clueless to the correct answers...and so are their Dads.

After reading Anonomyous' post on the ruining of a troop thanks to the hover-mothers banding together, I thought " how does a troop defend itself against the detrimental effects of the hover-mom?" I've only encountered a couple so far...one packed her sons pack for his first summer camp...Yes, there were 7 pairs of everything except shoes...only 3 pair...the scout spent the whole week in his swimming suit. This scout now tells all the new scouts to pack their own pack, while his mom is in the back of the room...if looks could kill. The other hover mom visited us at summer camp and tented with her son...BIG MISTAKE, the other scouts razzed him just enough so that he told mom to back off and go home...she didnt, but after she saw how well the scouts handled the meal prep and cooking she relented and turned in her wings...mumbling something about "...he never helps cook at home, so why here?" The only solution I can offer is put the hover mom(s) on a committee job like an annual dinner or fundraising...or as I have done in my troop...put them in charge of the "thank-you" notes. You can send them to training and WB and most likely you'll get back a trained Scouter...or you may get the Hover-Mom-zilla of your nightmares.

I served on a funeral/honors detail in the USN and as we were trained that the blue field of our flag is ONLY placed and displayed on a casket of a veteran as being symbolic of the flag embracing the deceased and the blue field covering the heart of the deceased in honor of their service.

Why start a second row? Wear the three you prefer to display. Theres a neat reference in italics in the current SM handbook that quotes the 1959 SM handbook that says a Scouter who wears his uniform with unit number, city/state strips, badge of office and service star is tastefully attired. I recently was awarded the District award of Merit...so now I have a fourth knot. I will likely drop the Den Leader Training award knot and stick with 3 knots (Scouter Training award,District award of Merit and Arrow of Light knots). I know many Scouters whose multiple knots are largely composed of Cub Scout leader training/service knots. I feel if one is serving as a Cub Scouter...then the CS knots have validity in showing others ones training and accomplishments in the Cub scout program...For me, I feel once that a Scouter is active in the Boy Scout or Venturing, then the overt display of Cub related knots takes more away from the uniform than adds to it. I hope no one takes my view as an attack or minimization of the Cub leader knots...because it isnt...I just see way too many CS knots on Boy Scout leaders.

Kenk, Find a Janssport Carson 90 external frame pack, its specifically built for taller people. If you are not too tall, the Carson 80 will do nice. I hiked Pholmont with the Carson 90 and its a great pack.

I have a Scout with the same issue...2 PORs and one shirt. this boy was the former ASPL and agreed to be Webelos Den Chief for a neighboring Pack. he is also very active in OA and asked to be the troop OA representative which has its own patch. In talking with him, he doesnt want to wear the DC patch, but will wear the DC cords when the Pack presents them to him. He prefers the OA Rep. patch as he desires to spend more time doing OA things and seems to feel the DC patch will not be as prestigious as the OA Rep. one will be. I suggested velcro, he turned that idea down flat! I feel he doesnt want to have what he considers a "Cub Scout" patch on a Boy Scout uniform...this Scout is an enthusiastic uniform wearer (except for the hat). I am happy he is enjoying being a Den Chief, and that he is further sharpening his leadership skills by serving boys younger than him...If he doesnt wear the DC patch, but will wear the DC cords...so much the better...if it works, dont fix it!

I (proudly) wore an Antelope patrol patch while atending WB C-19-06 and during the period while I worked my ticket. I had it on my uniform the night I was presented my necker, woggle, and beads. I removed the treasured patch the week after the beading ceremony...the outline of the patch and the holes from the stitching are still visible. The patch is now resting next to the certificate I received along with my beads...looks good there. I still see many Scouters that wear a WB patrol patch on their right sleeve, that is their choice. I have yet to get a WB name tag that will have an Antelope patch on the back...but I'll get around to it. As for adult patrols and patches...if it works for you and benefits the Scouts...great. If it is just a thing that the adults are doing and it distracts from the boys...then get rid of 'em. Do what the COR asks...you're lucky to have a COR who knows what a patrol patch is.

The troop I serve as SM had its Court of Honor this last monday night. We traditionally have a pot-luck dinner (well attended and growing) and a uniform inspection before the awards portion of the program. We ask a uniformed Scouter from a neighboring unit or a district/coucil level Scouter to be the guest inspector normally...for this recent inspection I was able to have a former Boy Scout and Sea Scout who is now on active duty with the United States Air Force as A Senior Airman conduct the inspection. James was in his dress blue uniform and looked like a million dollars...most of the new and younger scouts didnt know who he was. Several of the oldest guys did though. You should have seen how the Scouts made the extra last minute effort to look sharp when they seen that Airman Harmon was the inspector. He talked with each scout and praised them for what was correct and asked what some of the badges were for. The scouts in our newest patrol were shaking his hand and thanking him while standing inspection. The best part of this was after the last scout had been looked over, Airman James Harmon then addressed the gathered scouts and told them that they all looked pretty sharp and he was honored to be able to do their inspection. he further stated that people will judge you by how you appear and that its important to pay attention to detail and try to be as correct as you can when wearing a uniform and to treat wearing a uniform as a priviledge, not a burden. I have heard nothing but positive feedback from parents and family members who were in attendance at our CoH regarding having a service-person be the guest inspector. It should be noted that on tuesday morning, Airman Harmon flew out to his next duty station in the Republic of Korea...he spent his last night on leave with a troop of Boy Scouts. What a great example that Scouting builds men.

As Volker pointed out here regarding sweaters of German orgin, they just plain work. I have a surplus one that is OD and well worn...I removed the flag patches off each sleeve and placed an American flag in the correct spot on the right sleeve...then put my WB Antelope patrol patch (the one with the woggle border) below it. I had an older khaki/green BSA strip that I had sewn where it would be if on a shirt. On the left sleeve I have the pre-1969 Scoutmaster insignia (the one utilizing the first class emblem and no wording other than "Boy Scouts of America"). I hauled this heavy devil around at Philmont 2 years ago...I was beginning to think a fleece would have been better as far as weight goes, when I got REALLY COLD one afternoon while hiking in a constant drizzle with a rain-suit induced sauna. Having that kind of wool sweater meant I got warm as well as toasty in near record time. I tried the red loops on the shoulder straps..but I could'nt bring myself to wear them out to an event or camping...they just seemed...well, farb is a good word to explain them. Stosh probably knows what the word means. Seems that the leather loops with WB or other scouting decorations would go well on these sweaters as I feel they are kinda over the top for the field uniform.

The Philmont arrowhead patch. The wearer has earned it by completing a trek at Philmont, which is no easy task. Most scouts and scouters who wear this insignia spent a lot of time and effort preparing for their trek(s), so this award takes quite a bit of perseverance to attain. For any who would oe will point out that this insignia can be obtained from other sources (such as e-Bay), you are correct, however...anyone who would wear this patch without earning it are below contempt and dont deserve the PRIVELEDGE of donning the uniform of the BSA.

I was an advisor to a crew at Philmont in 2006 (731-F). Our ranger told us that a crew he picked up earlier that summer were actually removing the stoves,water purifier/filter unit and other camping gear from its original packaging during the "junk on the bunk" equipment shake-down prior to leaving base camp for their trek. He related that they had a real tought time for the 3 days he had to spend with them to ensure they could make the trek. He told me they aventually caught on to how to use their gear, but that they just "survived" their trek. Apparently, they neither prepared their gear and neglected doing shake-down or practice hikes...I would think this crew had what this thread title is. I am returning to Philmont in 2009 and we are already planning our gear upgrades and mapping out our practice and get-in-shape hikes...you can never be over-prepared for Philmont. Practice,plan and practice some more...Be Prepared...and enjoy your trek.

There are Antelopes...and other critters who secretly wish they were Antelopes! Antelope, C-19-06

I cant find fault with any of the methods posted that describe a sucessful trail to a cuppa joe...but have you considered the one thing that helps you enjoy your coffee just that much more? Location...location...location! The best spot for the "morning blessing"? Anywhere in Philmomt on the trail is my favorite spot. My trail partner and fellow adviser, Michael Jackson (NO..NOT that Michael Jackson!)had his 2-cupper with him on our trek in 2006...after my folding stool, it was the 2nd most important piece of gear we had along...a cuppa joe in the morning was something to savor and anticipate.

I served 20 years in the USN...had plenty of uniforms "left over", none were free...gave them to the Sea Scout Ship to use...Wear the CORRECT part(s) of the uniform...or dont bother to wear it. The "I was issued these and Blah..blah..blah" is NOT an argument that holds water. As a former service-member,..you KNOW that wearing a uniform correctly was what was expected of you when you HAD to wear it. Now, wearing the BSA uniform is NOT required,...but from where I stand, I see it as a PRIVILEDGE...and so I feel that I am priviledged just to be able to wear it...I always wear it correctly. Drop the excuses...get with OUR program...be the example...not the exception.

Our troop has its first CoH at the end of the month and our PLC has a uniform inspection slated as the first item to be done after the pot-luck fellowship. We have a former member who will be on leave from the USAF when we hold the CoH. The PLC is asking him to be the person who does the uniform inspection...he is being asked to conduct it while wearing his military class A uniform. We usually ask a uniformed guest to inspect the troop, including the uniformed adult members. Our guest inspectors are BSA members of troop or district/council level scouters. We feel a serving member of our armed forces is a worthy example to our scouts.

Lisabob; My son got his Switchbacks as soon as they were availble here in WI in Sept 2006. In addition to troop meetings, camp-outs and any other BSA events...I found him wearing them to school. I asked why he would wear them there..to which he answered "they're cool". This original pair has suffered a scorch mark on the lower right leg from what, he cant recall, and the seam in the crotch came unraveled (thread failure or diintegration?), but the material was intact and we had them mended. They were 18 months old at that point. He has since gotten a further 2 pairs as he spent last summer as a CIT at our councils summer camp. He has foregone wearing them to school as he is now a sophomore and cool no longer excuses the fact they are BSA uniform ( and I suspect others recognized the FDL on them and he retreated in favor of peer pressure). My own pair are holding up well...the nylon belt has twisted once or twice in the tunnel but I find the Switchbacks are the pants that perform well. With poly-propelene longies on underneath, they are very good to wear in the outdoors up here in Wisconsin winters...wore them during both this years as well as last years Klondike derbies..including tenting out... it got down to -5 degrees in 2007 and this year was a relative heat wave at 19 degrees. I wish I had had access to Switchbacks when I was at Philmont in July-August of 2006...the gander mountain stuff did well...but out of three pairs all had different features the Switchbacks had all together. Pair no.1-No lower leg zippers; Pair no.2-No cargo pockets; Pair no.3-No fly and only 1 cargo pocket(no not womens pants, fly fishing ones). I am adviser for a crew returning to Philmont in July 2009 and we are putting the Switchbacks on the "gear to get list" as the pants for the trip and the trail...less stuff to buy and they are functional, and they dry quick too, plus the lower legs when zipped off fit rather well in the cargo pockets with room to spare. We have seen "pilling" on ours, but overall they are wearing better than I expected them to, and my sons have been washed and dryed numerous times aand no discernable color loss or fading...my wife even got herself a pair to go hiking in and shes not a Scouter! I dont endorse anything I dont believe in, but I'll endorse these as they just plain work!

I served 20 years in the USN and retired as a Boiler Technician 1st class (Surface Warfare). At present I am employed by the Univesity of Wisconsin-Whitewater as a Power plant operator-senior...I operate and maintain boilers and central chilled water systems. I hope to have a second career as the lead vocalist in an Ozzy Osbourne tribute band...or perhaps as a sales represenative for a motorcycle dealership...hard to decide what I want to do when I finally grow up...we'll see...someday.

I will have to admit I have an ongoing "Battle of the Bulge". I went to Philmont in 2006...weighed in at 204lbs,5'10". In the fall of 2004 when we got our spot to go I weighed 267lbs and was in poor shape. I spent 2005 hiking ,biking and eating better and less at night after 8pm. Broke my ankle in april '05 and still trained every week till the snow flew. Got back to training in spring of '06...had more energy and felt and looked much better. Am I a better person for losing weight? I dont know. I am understanding of those fellow scouters who are ample in build...all have something to bring to the Movement...while I can hike at Philmont, someone else maybe more than capable in an area I am less than competent in...doesnt make anyone better than the other. Knight, I understand where you are coming from with regard to how the youth members of the Movement see us...but size is not the battle you want to fight among the members of this campfire. I am at present 215lbs and on-line to trek(again) at Philmont in 2009...I hope to drop to 190 this time.

SSScout, I have a friend who rides a late model 92" Victory...loves it. He formerly rode Harley shovelheads back in the 70s and 80s...says the victory makes 'em look like they're going backwards. I considered a Victory, but my styling taste is definetly Retro...the Victory was a bit too 'Fast and Furious' for me, but still a cool bike and the price beats the HDs for a similar type bike.

Seems to me that John McCain's positions to work across party lines is a genuine attempt to move beyond the bi-partisan traditional bickering and fighting that keeps our nation even further divided. I would hope this nation can eventually move ahead and continue to be the Greatest Nation on Earth...but so long as we divide ourselves and bicker over whos right, well...anyone who has siblings care to remember how most disagreements usually turned out? MOM...DAD? _______ is _________ me!! Sound familiar? Nothing but everybody wanting to be right..no matter what. I'm sick of the fighting our people do among themselves. Maybe reaching out and swallowing our pride may be the start of a better America. However, I cant claim to be capable to the ideal I've described here as I could not tolerate Hillary being elected President and Commander-in Chief...ABC anybody BUT Clinton!

Pappy mentioned wanting to ride after seeing the late Steve McQueen riding in "The Great Escape"...that reminded me of what an old biker riding an original '48 HD panhead said to me after checking out my bike..."nice bike, looks like something Steve McQueen woulda rode". When I was doing living history/battle re-enacting in Illinois with the HRS, I got to ride in the back seat of a "Kettenkrad"...a hybrid motorcycle-halftrack the German military used during the second world war...veerrry intereshting...but not recomended to drive across slopes except staight up or down (prone to tip, top heavy). Made by NSU. Very unusual.

Greetings all! I failed to note I ride my 2007 Ural Gear-Up to as many scouting events as I can. Last fall I rode it to the OWL training and many troop meetings. I rode it last year to our most recent Eagle Court of Honor. I promised the scouts that I would give any scout attending in complete uniform a ride through town (with parental permission). Ended up giving 9 scouts rides...they loved it! If you have never heard of or seen a Ural, go to www.ural.com ...mine is the desert camo model. Something I never expected when I started this thread was the huge response...and how so many of us have this (motorcycles) as well as Scouting in common.

Seeing as how a thread went astray over the subject of motorcycles, I figure to start one just for us "motorsickle-scouters". So, please post what you are riding, have ridden and/or hope to ride/own. Do you ride your bike to scouting events? I'll start. Currently I'm riding a 2007 Ural Gear-Up, its painted desert camo, has a memphis shades windshield and is named "Lotta" as in 'lotta fun'...Riding a bike with a hack is a challenge but it is worth the effort as this bike is WAY different. I learned to ride 2 wheels on a buddys Vespa back in '77. Bought a new Harley SuperGlide in '78...had it 5 months before it was stolen. Rode a '77 HD XLH for the next 6 years. Got a '77 FX 1200 SuperGlide in near basket-case/barely ridable condition in '84 in CA. Rebuilt it to FXS standard and got left-turned 8 months later...re-did it again, this time to FXWG model spec...rode it for 42000 miles in 6 years and sold it. Well, thats my story..whats yours? Oh! I'd dig to ride a Vincent Black Shadow some day.

Do we get to mark the box that says "None of the above",...oh, wait..we dont (yet) have that option open to us as voters yet, do we? Former Sen. Fred Thompson was rather interesting and refreshingly blunt in stating his views and his given policies on the issues. Too bad he bailed out...he seemed to have the makings of a leader...not just another politician. I will support Sen. McCain in his bid for the presidency of the United States. We are still at war and I prefer the Commander-in Chief to be well grounded in what serving in the armed forces entails...Sen. McCains service to our nation as a serving officer and as a POW will enable him to be a leader...although I'm sure he will be ridiculed for what was posted here as being arrogant and not presidential. I want a leader...not an MBA...not a pretty face...a leader, please. And I sure dont want what the Democrats seem to think I need....Change? Change from being free to mandated social programs so we can be fair?? What happened to EARNING your benefits? The mandated socialism the Democratic party wants for us amounts to not much more than what our fathers and grandfathers fought against during the 2nd World War and the Cold War. History can repeat itself...vote for Hillary and find out. Oh and lets not forget this forum is issues and politics...my views dont need to match anyone elses...if they do...cool...if they dont...lets get along anyway.