kraut-60

My Cubmaster back in 1966 had sons who were grown up and married at the time...was a great Cubmaster (his wife was a Den Mother). Both served Scouting until age and failing health curbed their activity. My 1st Scoutmaster in 1969 was a WW2 US Army vet, foundry worker, married (2 sons grown and in the military)...also chain-smoked, still was an effective Scoutmaster...continued as Scoutmaster until 1972 when my father stepped up as Scoutmaster (which he did until 1983 which at that time I had served 7 years on active duty in the US Navy). ScoutMomSD, you really shot yourself in the foot with your thread on being creepy...your hover-mom instincts are the core of the mediocrity that permeates units that fail in delivering the Scouting Promise due to parents that cant get over the "stranger danger" line of thought. Looking out for ones children is normal, but your approach borders on the absurd...citing "SouthPark" in your posts doesnt bolster an image of sanity. Let your feet heal before you stop hovering, otherwise you may tip over when you finally land.

I have read that insignia intended for youth are not worn by adult members of the Boy Scouts of America, and I can agree with it for the most part with one exception...I would like to see those who earn the Eagle rank be allowed to wear the rank patch until they reach age 21. I have seen several Eagle Scouts that would not remove the Eagle rank patch and replace it with the red,whit and blue stranded square knot. As I am not an Eagle, far be it for me to tell them they cant wear such a recognized and respected mark of achievment as represented by the rank badge (not the knot). Those Eagles I refer to are still in college and not yet 21...in fact the Eagle still wearing it has told me he wont take it off until he turns 21, and I agree with and support his position...what say you out there on the board?

GaHillBilly wrote "if(you)are under 6' and wear a size 40 or larger pants, you are failing as a Scoutmaster" Wow, am I ever glad I only wear a size 38 and stand 5'10"...otherwise I'd be failing? The troop I serve in as Scoutmaster, has recruited 9 boys on average for the last 2 years...we still have some stop going to meetings.. some are active in sports and put Scouting aside for awhile, yet I see this as a part of Scouting that has always been. I joined the BSA in Jan.1969. The troop I belonged to had at best 8-12 Scouts at any given time. The "cool" kids were nowhere to be found near or in a Boy Scout troop. By the numbers...more kids were in Cub Scouts when I was a Cub, and only a few went into Boy Scouts... Gee, kinda sounds like the reality of today. I remember when the "cool" red berets were introduced, and how they would make the then "un-cool" uniform more with it and attract boys to Scouting...it didnt( John in KC will attest to this...maybe). One thing that is coming through all the posts on this thread is that we are running a volunteer program...we have to want to do what we do for Scouting...we gotta have faith and believe in what the BSA is and how we can use its ideals and methods to better those youth WE CAN REACH...not every kid on the planet, but those who find the Scouting movement to their liking and want to be a part of it. I'll go along with the "nerds and geeks" line...I was not a very popular kid in school...always got picked last for whatever silly game we had to play in Phy.Ed. class...never went out for sports... I spent my time reading and studying history and building models. But I was right at home here in Scouts. My dad took my sister and I hiking near every weekend it was nice out in the Kettle Morraine trails here in SE WI. I thrived on the advancement requirements as they challenged me to use some REAL skills to feed and live out of doors...something the "cool" kids couldnt do. I have much to thank Scouting for, mostly for the sense of right and wrong and the oath and law to guide ones life by...nothing in the public schools then or now will provide the opportunity to kids to grow and get better than Scouting did and still does. As for the size 40 and under 6' being a failure... well I took a trek at Philmont in '06, but then I had dropped to 204lbs and was wearing a size 36...in '09 I'm doing another trek at Philmont...guess I could drop a few lbs...Ga HillBilly, the size of a Scouters hearts got nothing to do with their waist size.

funscout; that is way too funny! (picture this)...Dead terrorist: What is this abomination?!! Which flea infested son of a camel herder has switched the virgins? I have to do WHAT?... WITH A MAN?... 72 MEN?? I should have never believed...

I am adamant that this should be decided by the PLC, not the troop committee...by deferring this to the troop committee, the scouts will see the TC as the authority within the troop,not the SPL and the PLC. The TC can advise the PLC, provided the PLC seeks their counsel, and the SM should be the primary advisor to the PLC in this matter as it is the SM who is the primary direct contact leader...running this matter through the TC will allow the scouts to see that the SM is not really the adult unit leader, and his/her authority may not be seriously taken as the final word in matters where the PLC will be seeking guidance. The TC may have a member or two at any given troop/patrol outing, but usually the SM and/or an ASM will normally be present, and having the authority residing in a committee who likely won't be present when a decision is needed will simlpy result in a shrug of the shoulders and "we'll have to WAIT and ask the troop committee"...Whats wrong with this picture? NO leadership development through situation/problem solving...NO boy-led examples...No opportunity for the Scouts to LEARN how to handle discipline with-in their ranks...Nope!...simply defer the issue to the adults. Check the embroidered letters in red over the right shirt pocket,does it say "Adult Scouts of America"? We should treat every issue that comes up as a chance for our Scouts to develop and practice skills with regard to leadership and character development and that discipline does NOT mean punishment and if a disciplinary measure is called for, then have the Scouts who are leading call for it... the adults should ONLY be keeping an eye on the proceedings and advising or giving direction when needed.

As Beavah suggested, talking with the PL/ASPL/SPL would garner more information regarding this Scout. I feel this is an instance where the PLC should be the authority in what outcome the scout in question receives as a "correction" or reprimand. Having the PLC decide this issue will surely run afoul of the hover parents if there are any in the unit this occurred, however I feel it will back up the boy-led premise we should be practicing...no shunting to the troop committee for a decision...no calling the DE for a ruling...let the Scouts who ARE the patrol and troop members decide the outcome....And why was an i-Pod in a tent during a scout camp-out? Normally any electronic entertainment items should be LOCKED in a car/truck until the troop/patrol is heading on the drive home.

If you want the color guards (those standing next to those carrying the US flag and unit flag) to carry an item that would convey the dignity a color guard should display, why not consider a staff? You know, a hiking type staff...they could carry the patrol flag(s) or the ribbons the patrols/troop have earned/won. Scouts should NOT carry or display an imitation firearm as a part of a color detail...as its been pointed out, its conceviable that the "rubber ducks" would'nt be carried properly or would be at best toys and be played with rather than add a sense of honor and martial dignity to the duty of correctly carrying the flags of our nation and the unit of Scouts performing this duty. A pair of well finished and decorated hiking staffs could be carried by the color guards in the hand to the outside of the colors and resting against the carriers shoulder. For me this offers a solution that seems more in keeping with being a Scout by carrying an item a Scout would have as a part of a Scouts gear.

Civilian control...ah Beav, we already have that...are you proposing even more unneccesary civilian meddling in matters they have no business being in? Seems to me if we allow yet(more) civilian control and oversight authority with regard to military matters we may as well just surrender now and disband whats left of our military...then when the terrorists come calling, we can all hold hands and sing kumbahya and tell them what their rights are? Any enemy in arms against the United States of America, not in uniform is subject to summary execution...deal with the fact or ignore it, but dont take those who serve to protect our nation to task with your haughty assumed morality...stick to talking like a yokel...leave the business of military matters to those best suited to them.

With regards to the way prisoners are interogated and treated, Why does the American public feel it has a right to know all the intimate details of how its military carries out its missions? In this day and age and since Viet Nam, the news media has broken open stories that put our armed forces in a less than stellar light, which leads the citizens to the conclusion that they have a "right" to know EVERYTHING that goes on in government and the military....what crap! The citizens in this nation during the second world war were not provided with news media that spelled out every scheme or plan the government had going or was putting into action. Can anyone here imagine what the reaction here in the US would have been had the news reported on the loss of 300 plus soldiers from the German e-boat raid on the port of Devon the week before the landings at Normandy...especially if the report stated all the pertinent facts that todays news will and does? Those men lost were practicing lnading on the beach at Devon because it closely resembled the beach code named "Omaha"...todays news would spell out EVERYTHING, with little to no regard for what the story would do to national security. One can claim the moral high ground and cite scripture from any source they wish...the fact remains, war is a dirty messy business that MUST be left to those best suited to carry it out as effectively and as quickly as possible to minimze casualties to our own troops and attain the objective the military action neccesitates. I am retired military, I will not underestimate any adversary I go up against to better ensure my chances of getting home alive...however I will not assign human value to the enemy...the second you see the enemy as a human being, you will hesitate...chances are the enemy wont, and you'll be dead. Those who are sheep have the luxury of the moral high ground, those of us who are sheep dogs cant afford that luxury as it has no value to us...our job is to protect the sheep from the wolves, not worry whether the wolf has rights.

Hi rrclark1, I would leave the recruiter patch off as it is a patch meant for youth members. The "International" patch? Do you mean the World brotherhood of Scouting patch...the purple one we wear over our left pocket on the current uniform? If it is the same one, then I would also leave it off. An older uniform looks great when correctly badged, but I would advise that less is more when replicating a uniform of the olive-khaki (pre 1980). I am also in possession of several older uniforms that I will badge to reflect my current positions in Scouting (SM an RT Commish). The hard part about older uniforms is getting pants that will fit...seems most of what e-bay has in sizes north of 36" waists go for an amount that would make 1/2 of the car payment...Good Luck and best wishes in getting your uniform done.

The cards for merit badge(s) and ranks are normally bought at the Councils Scout shop...Is there anything prohibiting a troop from copying these or designing and using our own design? Has anyone out here done their own cards? If you did, were they well received?

The Scout; Exactly! What else would rankle an Englishman better than a Scotsman in charge...and an Independant Scotland! My Mums from Glasgow...I am a wee bit biased in favor of the Scots, even though I have german last name (hence the "kraut" moniker).

A Scoutmaster should NEVER refuse to have an SM Conf. once a Scout requests it. This SM is doing this Scout and others a dis-service if he operates this way...when a Scout asks me for a SM Conf. I am ready to sit down and listen to what he has to say.

Eamonn; Kindly inform Her Majesty that I/we shall agree to the terms previously described providing the following terms are accepted and carried out: 1) The Chunnel must be re-named "The French Connection" 2) DeHavillad Aircraft must immediatley begin building Mosquito bombers to ww2 specification and offering them at cost to avaiation merit badge counselors. 3) Boy George is to be kept in the Tower of London...preferably on the Tower green pecking for food with the ravens. 4) Monty Pythons Flying Circus must immediately be put back in production with ALL the original cast (being dead is no excuse). 5) Charles and Cammila must be stripped of their titles and sent to live in France. 6) All Wimpys restaurants will be closed and the buildings torn down. 7) Sean Connery will be named Prime Minister. 8) Rowan Atkinson will be named Ambassador to France...he may use his Mr. Bean impression at his discretion. 9) Ringo Starr will be forced to sign anything he's asked to sign. 10)Kilts will be provided free of charge to any brave enough(and with hairy enough legs) to wear them...a Kilt matching BSA uniform green will be made and distributed w/ matching russet belt and sporran. 11)All twits MUST be licensed and display thier twit tag on the back of their tweed jacket. Unregistered twits will be fined and made to watch all Michael Moores films repeatedly while eating Haggis. 12)American football will be continued to be played, the UK and its Commonwealth nations will form teams to compete with the NFC/AFC. A UK/Commonwealth based team must win the superbowl the first year Her Majestys proposed re-absorbtion of the "colonnies" takes place for the pax americanna to be accepted as law, should Her Majestys football team choke and lose or not even advance to the superbowl, then all previous terms are null and void...no wardrobe malfunctions will tolerated during the 1/2time show and Roseanne Barr MUST sing "God Save the Queen" (she may grope herself at the conclusion).

E; you are pretty much correct regarding the district events being poorly attended in the fall due to outside of scouting activities getting precedence. Our Troop had a "Patrol" camp for the first weekend after school was back in session, we held it at a camp 6 miles out of town at a youth camp owned by the local United Way. We had lots of families that initially declined the outing due to sports conflicts (why does sports seem to take precedence over Scouting?)...but when they were told their sons could meet their soccer obligation and then come out to camp, well, we had half the troop attending before you knew it, and lots more scouts turning up at the last minute. Our Troop was able that weekend to get 2 Second class Scouts through all the First class Req.4 stuff and lots more Scouts did their Req.'s for rank advancements on T-2-1. We skipped the following weekends district camporee because none of the Scouts wanted to go, and again the sports issue was cited as was the distance (30+ miles). The district event was attended by 12 units and a sucess. If a districts events are under attended, scheduling conflicts should be considered when planning them...I realize we as Scouts will play second best to scolastic sporting endevours, but if planners consult the school calenders for the communities in a district, a weekend might be found that will be free of potential conflict of interests. Planners should also have the SPLs of the troops in the district polled to find what the Scouts in the districts Troops would prefer to do at district level. Perhaps two districts could stage their events at the same time and place and pit one district against the other in a friendly Scout competition of skills...or the district could sponsor a Patrol Competition within their districts area, after all, Patrols are the basic unit in a Boy Scout Troop...they should compete against and with one another.

Last year, I purchased a new Jac-Shirt, sized mens large. I trekked at Philmont in '06 and had purchased a bull patch at the Tooth of Time Trading Post after I finished the trek. I had the bull patch sewn on by a lady who is better with needle and thread than I. While pinning the patch on, we noticed that if the bull was aligned over the left pocket correctly, the bulls front hooves were about 3/16th-1/4 of an inch above the upper seam of the left pocket flap. We also took note that the last 1/2 inch of the bulls tail passed over the seam on the left shoulder. I beleive this lack of space is peculiar to newer Jac-Shirts, as I have checked older Jac-Shirts and found the distance between the pocket seams and the seam running over the shoulders to be noticeably wider in older versions...the older one I checked this on is a large as is mine. I am glad I climbed Mount Baldy (during daylight), but I still hear some flak when asked about the tail position of my bull patch...the flak generally consists of claims that the tail over means climbing the tooth...even though Baldy is higher.

Mr Boyce; Its a Scottish thing...only an English twit would suspect a kilt had any thing to do with sex(or a lack of it). Metrosexual...bollocks! Sounds like a bleedin' bar fo' barmy ol' men in trenchcoats!

Great topic! The kid that pulled this one should get this tent from here on out...I'll bet the other scouts call it the "dog house". Most kids of scouting age are absolutley fascinated with gross bodily functions, doesnt excuse the kid that did the dirty deed, but its entirely in keeping with the 12 year old mind set...I hope the unit that this occured in doesnt have a PC melt-down over it. Let the PLC decide what if any disciplinary measure should be taken. Oh, BTW...FDP is also known in the PC world as Replica biodgradable canine by-product (non-toxic, safe for use by children 12 and up).

Been on vacation for a few days here...glad to see this thread still running and healthy. I would offer one bit of advice I am aware of from my Scottish relatives...when one is not entitled to a given tartan and wishes to wear a kilt, the tartan of the Black Watch Highland regiment is worn. My aunts there in Glasgow were highly amused by the Utilikilt...they commented that only a daft yank would wear a garment called a kilt but without a tartan...and as my auntie told me " theres nae pockets ona kilt! Thats wot the sporrans fer.....bloody Yanks!" (Glaswegian phonics added).

Liz; My Scouts are very experienced "Pearl Divers"...we use the baggie eggs when we have a need to be moving out by 8am or earlier. We do plenty of dishes using the 3 tub method...one of my 1st class Scouts takes particular glee in training the new Scouts in how to do dishes RIGHT!

Packhound; For the same price as a pair of Scout pants? I'm interested in that deal...where and whats availible? My Mums from Glasgow, so I'd be willing to wear a kilt...plus I've got the hairy knees!

Not long ago at a district Roundtable, our new district chairperson announced that there was to be a ban on making freezer bag omelettes/eggs...she was almost near hysterical in her pitch that "some Scout would be sickened and die" from eating eggs prepared in a freezer bag in boiling water...she claimed that BSA had put out this new policy as a result of the nalgene/bisephenol-A(?) problem. Any validity to this? I went through Woodbadge with this lady and she is easily wound up, so I tend to take the info regarding a "ban on freezerbag/ziploc egg cooking" as a knee-jerk reaction at best. Its one of the quicker and easily cleaned up breakfasts one can use when times at a premium...I'd hate to see the Scouts lose it if its really safe.

Our Troop has had 9 new scouts join our troop this past spring and the spring of 2007. We lost 2 scouts from the "Class of 2007"...and none yet from the class of 2008. We have them in patrols where they learned together how to lead and feed themselves...we suffer through the sports-induced losses of what ever sport is in season...but we let all our sports-scouts now we'll be here when the season is over...Scouting season doesnt close. Keep 2 patrols...12 is way too big to be effective...2 patrols will allow more opportunity for the members to advance...especially the requirements for 1st class cooking.

Back to the American history part of this thread...Anyone here see the similarities between the state of our nation in the years leading to the Great Depression and now? Can we expect the recession/depression soon? Probably...very likely accompanied by civil-unrest brought on by massive unemployment and homelessness as a result of the economic meltdown of Sept 2008...the newly elected president will have to resort to drastic measures to restore order...likely to include federalization of National Guard units. Troops would be posted to keep order at grocery stores and gas stations...restrictions on travel would follow to keep expenditures of fuel in line with Govt. efforts to conserve what will be a scarce commodity...gas rationing will be the law. Pop quiz...which WW2 US gas ration category were most Americans assigned? A,B or C? The coming depression will get much worse before it gets better...Most US citizens will be reduced to a lower standard of living, Hoovervilles will make a comeback as people who lost their homes will have no other option. Our enemies around the world will tout our troubles as the downfall of the American Empire...we will be struck again and repeatedly as we will be seen to be too preoccupied with internal troubles to have any resources for the areas we have recently been active in to date...The Dept.of Homeland Security will triple in size as a responce to the need for more police to keep civil order. We may find our nation heading toward a second civil war as a result of massive dis-satisfaction with the Govt. This is what our present enemies are praying to whatever diety they seek direction from...America imploding from with-in. We as Americans will likely survive the hard times we are entering, but it wont be easy at all...but we can take our cues from the past...FDRs brilliant leadership and social-economic measures put people back to work, and ultimately led to a work ethic that allowed us to sacrifice when such was needed to pull the US together and go to war and win. Theres no magic solution for what we face...the Govt. will not fix this situation with 700 billion...it will only stave off the inevitable...total economic collapse followed by??? The future is not yet clear.. we face many challenges...I pray we can overcome our differences and find our similarites...and the solutions that will lead us to being better Americans and having a better country to live in.

BW; I am promoting the patrols in my troop to have no less than one patrol activity per month. I have told the Troop Committee that I require a plan from the patrol and the planned activity cannot interfere with a scheduled troop activity. I am also having an adult be present for my NSP and 2nd year patrols. I have told the PLC that I will allow adult free overnight camping for the 3rd year and up patrol after seeing thier plan. I told my 2nd year scout patrol that adult free camping will be considered when all patrol members are First Class Scouts. We havent had a true adult free patrol activity..yet, but I am eagerly looking forward to it. One thing I have considered in getting a patrol overnighter free of adult pressence, is to have an adult present during the day and leave when suppers over.