kramr1

First let me thank all of you for your comments and support. I just wish I had that same support from our CM and CC. Lisabob-I think your first comment is correct. Our CC said that newsletter "hurt her feelings" and because of that she would remain. I really don't see what in there could hurt her feelings. Besides, she is a grown woman. She WILL get over it. It just seems to be a lousy excuse to keep a lousy leader. As for the violations of policy, I was not given a copy so I really have no idea what was there. I did see the heading (it said violations of policy by "Jane Doe"). There were at least 20 items on that first page alone. Why not do something after the second or third violation? I don't understand why they let this go on so long. And yes I am trained. I filled out the adult leader application last spring and was approved over the summer. I took the fast start training (a CD provided to me by our CM) and youth protection training right away. A couple of weeks ago I attended our councils "training extravaganza" and completed the new leader essentials and leader specific training and received my trained strip. Do you think it would be a good idea to have some parents of past and currents scouts talk with the CM about this issue? One parent after picking up her son took the newletter with her. She came back in the room a few minutes later and explained that she was pleased because "she is mean, not very patient and yells at the boys all the time". Other parents have made similar comments to me in the past. I really don't want to leave the pack. I have no problems with any other part of our scouting program. Just this leader. If I leave that will be one more boy she has driven away and more will probably leave also. What happens then? The pack will fold and the boys will end up being the one who lose out. By the way, the boys(including my son) have no idea what is going on. We have managed to keep it out of view.

Thank you all for your thoughts on this issue. However, I do disagree with Trevorum. I believe this IS a Cub Scouting issue. As leaders we are responsible to carry out a quality program directed by quality leaders. If we have neither then who suffers? The boys will. She has already demonstrated her inability to adhere to pack policy. I do not want to leave the pack either. Other than this particular leader we have what I think is a very good program. The other leaders in the pack do not even have any sons in Cub Scouts anymore. They are there because of the boys. I am NOT going to back down on this issue. This DL really needs to go. Our den is suffering because of her. If I cannot get the support of the CM and CC then I will have to take it to the district level and beyond if I need to. If I cut and run now what message will that send the boys? When the chips are down then quit?? Thats not a good scouting attitude! I will fight the good fight but not for me. For the boys. They deserve a good leader. Thanks again for your thoughts. More opinions would be appreciated!

I am a new den leader. I started 2 months ago. The reason I became den leader is because I was not happy with how our den leader was leading the den (we are now a bear den). After working with this den leader for 2 months I had enough. She would not communicate with me. She blocked my e-mail address and when I would call her on the phone she would hang up on me.She was bad mouthing me (among other things)to the other leaders and parents of the den. She was making me out to be a fool. She did not want my help and resented that I was there. As tiger cubs we started with 14 boys. We now have only 4 of those original 14 left. The parents of half of the boys who quit told me directly that they were leaveing because of her. One Mother even chewed her out in front of the entire den. I finally was frustrated enough to tell the cubmaster that I was resigning my position as den leader. He would not allow that. Instead, he set up a meeting with me, her, him, and a pack committee member. She did not show up. At this meeting I found out that the committee member (i think he is committee chair)wanted to get rid of her 2 years ago but our cubmaster talked him out of it because he had no one to replace her. Now the cubmaster has finally had enough of her and wanted her gone also.They had 2 pages worth of various violations of pack policy by her.The committee member told me point blank that she will either quit or be fired by our chartered organization rep. It was her choice. He then went on to say "we now have an opening for a bear den leader, are you interested?" I accepted under those terms. Because she did not show up they decided to wait until last nights meeting to "fire" her. Wanting to be proactive I started planning for last nights den meeting. One thing I did was create a newsletter for the parents. This newsletter stated my name and phone number and a plan for novembers den/pack activities. The parents did not get this until they picked up their sons at the end of the meeting. After the meeting our committee member pull me into a room and "kinda" tossed that newsletter in my direction and said "what the hell is this". No good evening, no how ya doing, just "what the hell is this". That really bothered me. He then went on to say that because I issued that newsletter that she would remain a leader of the den. He said I should have waited until she was officially removed from then den. I was floored. She was a bad leader that they wanted to get rid of. How could one benign newsletter change that fact? She was a bad leader before and will be a bad leader after the newsletter. What do I do? I cannot and will not work with her. Do I resign again? I really feel the boys are being short changed because of her. I don't want to just give up but after all that has happened I cannot work with her. Do I take my concerns to the district level, to the council level? Do I contact our rep? I really need some advice. I am frustrated and am at a loss. Please help!

Thank you all for your advice!(This message has been edited by kramr1)

Hello. We have a boy in our den who will be moving to a town about a half hour away. His parents would still like to bring him to our den meetings and stay in the pack. However there are some who say he can't do this and that he has to join the pack in his new town. Some of us disagree. Is there a hard and fast rule that says you must join the pack in your town or can you join any pack?

Thank you all for your advice.

Last night at the den meeting we made birdfeeders(bear achievement 5b). My co-den leader says that because the boys decorated the birdfeeder they will also get credit towards the art belt loop. I said no. We can give credit towards one or the other but not both. However she insists that she is right because "i've always done it that way". She has been den leader for a few years and this is my first year as den leader so she thinks I know nothing. So what is the answer? Does it count for both or just one? Thank You.

Hello to all. My son has been in cub scouts for a couple of years now. The entire time I was never satisified with the way things were being done by his den leader. Being a former scout myself i decided to become a leader and see if I can change things. I am now co-den leader with the den leader that I was not satisified with. Among the many things I disagree with is the fact that she gives credit for achievements/electives that are NOT completed by the boys. She says she does not want to hold anyone back and gives them credit whether they have done it or not. I say they either earn the awards/rank or they don't get it. Giving them something they did not earn is not going to teach them anything other than giving a half assed effort will get you by. She awarded the bowling belt loop to my son at a past pack meeting. After the meeting I let her know that my son has NOT completed the requirements for this her response was "oh well, i guess he gets a free one". That boiled my blood. I did talk with my son and let him know that I will hang on to it for him and when he does complete the requirements he can have it to wear. How do I handle this? She is already doing the same things again this year. I had a conservation with the cubmaster but he didn't do anything about it. Being a new leader I don't really know what to do next. Anyone have any advice for me???