KoreaScouter

For a DO, I gotta go with lasagna -- easy to make, smells great cooking, very filling, and with carrot sticks and box oven rolls, you've got the complete package. KS

I understand the concept of "controlled failure", and up to a point, I think it has its place as a teaching tool. That said, I think that people in general are more enthusiastic and motivated by positive versus negative experiences, and Scouts are no exception. For example, if I watch the SPL about to forget to go to a leader's meeting at camp, I'll give him a gentle reminder versus let him miss the meeting and affect the Troop as a whole. Also, if by eavesdropping on patrol meetings at a Troop meeting, I see that they're planning foil meals but haven't put foil on their shopping list, I will steer the PL toward that oversight through directed questioning. Will they starve to death without the foil if you don't say anything? Of course not, but I don't think that's the point. It's incredibly easy to play and win "stump the dummy" or "gotcha" with them. But, consider the consequences -- they know that you knew they hadn't planned to get foil, and you didn't say anything before the fact. As a 12-year old PL, I'd resent that, even if I could borrow foil from someone else at camp or came up with some other workaround. We're trying to produce adults of high character; what behavior model do we want to imprint on them? If someone did that to me at work, he would definitely be off my Christmas card list! In my experience, there will be enough unforeseen events, broken lanterns, missing tent stakes, road detours, etc., that we DIDN'T know about beforehand -- they will test the junior leaders' judgment, resourcefulness, and decision making. I don't understand why we would let something go FUBAR when we knew it would ahead of time, had the time and resources to prevent it, but didn't because we wanted them to "learn from it". Well, I think they'll learn from it all right, but we may not get what we bargained for. I think proper planning (even if it requires adult intervention) and a good event resulting from it gives positive experiences and keeps 'em coming back. I also think it builds more positive relationships between the youths and adults. Shouldn't "...help other people at all times..." apply to us, too? Of course, I think they need to know that their decisions (individually and collectively) have consequences. I have three Scouts right now who would have been First Class Scouts already if they had attended our one-mile orienteering hike in November. They all decided to do something else that day, and now that's the only requirement they have left to complete before an SM conference. See, there's plenty of opportunities for these lessons to sink in without us withholding our experience and judgment to create them. KS

I've owned two Peak 1's for quite a while, one multifuel and one white gas-only. We're recent converts to canister stoves due to their ease of use and safety. Now, where I live currently, the canisters are cheap -- about $1.00 each after the Won-to-Dollar conversion. I was shocked during a recent visit to Hawaii, though, to see the canisters with a $4.49 price tag! Is that the standard going rate; where do you canister stove-types get your canisters? KS

Yak: I know there's a big emphasis on advancement in LDS troops (wish all the troops/leaders I've been associated with had an emphasis!), and I also have to tell you that I've seen corners cut, too. In my observations, these cases were anecdotal and personality-dependent rather than a church-based conspiracy, but existed nonetheless. I believe the potential for it is greater when the pressure's on...we see the human dynamic all the time, in all areas of endeavor. On the MB roundups/colleges, etc., I agree partially. If poorly organized or non-compliant with BSA policy, they're a joke. However, they can be well-done. We did a quality roundup last year, although it did take a tremendous amount of work. For some badges (chemistry and aviation are two that come to mind), having a group over a certain size provided the critical mass/leverage that got us access to real airplanes and chemistry labs...probably couldn't have gotten the same resources for just one or two. KS

We're in a unique (and I guess, great) situation; our CO pays our recharter fee, to include Boy's Life subscriptions for all. In return, our CO expects (and receives) our Scouts' participation in their patriotic and community service activities...win-win. KS

I'm not sure I agree the primary purpose of den dues is to pay for supplies, advancements, etc. If that were the case, there are many more time-efficient and effective means of doing that. Rather, I agree with posters who see the primary purpose as instilling a sense of responsibility, thrift, and the value of money in a boy. If dues are collected in a lump sum as part of the check mom/dad writes at the beginning of the year, we've lost that opportunity. Ideally, the dues are earned by the Scout through household chores, his participation in Pack money earning projects, or for the older lads, a paper route or some other similar job. When I was a Cub Scouter, I thought the dues collection was a major pain in the neck, and saw the fits it gave our Pack treasurer. Now that I am a Boy Scouter, I can more fully appreciate how, by laying a foundation early, we can teach the lessons of thrift and financial responsibility to our Scouts. In that context, the amount is irrelevant. It could be $.25 a week to teach the values, unless the unit needs the money, then the amount should be whatever it needs to be to maintain the cash flow. KS

If it's tracking advancement, and you have a Palm OS handheld, you can download ScoutTrack for free; go to usscouts.org; they have a link. I'm not aware of any PC-based advancement trackers. Now, if it's animals and stuff, I have to defer to Le Voyageur; he's the man! KS

You gotta get in the dark with these things to really appreciate them...play with them in the store and all they'll generate is a "gee, that's cute...". An 18-wheeler, huh? Okay, but are they Scout-proof? KS

One of my ASMs brought one to Spring Camporee, and I was smitten! Push the weatherproof on/off button, and a warm flood of very white light spills from a mini-mag sized flashlight. It's a flood rather than a spot, so it's great for reading, searching for lost/dropped whatevers. The 3 LEDs are guaranteed for 100,000 hours, so you don't need to carry extras. It runs on N-cell photo batteries, and they just don't seem to wear out (maybe it's 'cuz the LEDs draw so little power). The light is unbelievably bright for its size -- the wavelength or spectrum or something is such that the light is so much more brilliant than that from a mini-mag or other flashlight. One of the best things is the price; right around $20 for the mini-mag size. Check these out if you haven't already... KS

DS; Thanks for the perspective; I am looking forward to this experience, and for much the same reason you look back on yours with such fondness. There's a little irony here, as I have always publicly expressed a preference to not be tapped out before my son, since I volunteered in Scouting in the first place to share the experience with him, not without him. Now, the shoe's on the other foot, at least temporarily. I was his first teacher, and there's still much he has to learn from me. However, I'm increasingly encountering areas where he's schooling me...this will be yet another, and one I'm perfectly content with. KS

Sager; If I can presume to speak for those who are suggesting an alternative program for those who don't qualify for BSA membership, I don't think their motive is as you characterize it. Rather than the "tip of the iceberg", I honestly believe their suggestions are intended to satisfy these youths' desires for an outdoor program, without the requirement to change BSA policy. I think that for many, if not a majority of us (Scouts/Scouters collectively, not just those who post on this forum -- we're into this to a greater degree than the average Joe/Jane), the gay policy is something they're rather ambivalent about. In other words, it doesn't bother them that there is one, and it won't bother them if there isn't one. Just my opinion, and probably depends on the unit and their CO. Again, I'm talking about the membership as a whole, not our little cracker barrel. Here's another example of a BSA policy that some would see as "out of step" with the mainstream. Most countries' Scouting programs are co-ed; ours isn't as a matter of policy (Venturing excepted of course). We've camped with co-ed Scout units, and five of our Scouts have World Jamboree experience. To us, co-ed Scouting is no big deal; we've already seen it, and after all, our lads go to school, play sports, etc., with girls every day -- it wouldn't be a huge leap of logic if they were in Scouts, too. Would any of them quit? I don't know, but I don't think so, based on my observations when we're at events with BSK units. If the gay ban were lifted tomorrow, would any of our Scouts quit? Our Scouters? Again, I don't know, but again, I don't think so. If a person quits any activity that includes people whose lifestyle, beliefs, behavior, is contrary to his own or he disagrees with on whatever grounds, that person will quickly become a hermit. I'm not advocating a change. Rather, I'm willing to live with the policies of the organization I joined voluntarily, including the "no go-kart" rule and other head-scratchers. And frankly, I think BSA's position is more "live and let live" than the activists' position is. KS

Purelce; We're headed to Hawaii -- I guess it's my turn after four tours here! 92_SPL: If your Troop has an OA representative, I'd recommend asking him first up, what OA's all about. In fact, there's a short (15 minutes I guess) video tape that BSA has out there, which is an excellent introduction; we show to the Scouts before each OA election. If your OA rep doesn't have it or hasn't heard of it, check with your Chapter or Lodge Advisor. If you don't know who that is, your Council Service Center can give you contact info. There are of course some things about the ordeal and the other ceremonies that they won't tell you ahead of time. It's not a deliberate attempt to hide anything, but just intended to make the experience more meaningful by not removing the element of surprise. Best wishes to you! KS

I had a post in another thread about the lad in our neighborhood who's mom won't let him join because of the ban on gays. Made me wonder (and I have no idea if anyone in Irving ponders this): Are we losing more POTENTIAL Scouts because of the current policy, or will we lose more CURRENT Scouts if the policy changes? I have to admit, the debate on this thread has been pretty restrained compared to some others. I, for one, thought we'd have at least one "City of Brotherly Love" joke by now. KS

At District Spring Camporee, my son and I were both tapped out for OA. I felt honored, and was so proud of my son. I was a little nervous about the Ordeal timing, since we're moving soon and I was worried about a schedule conflict. Sure enough, the Ordeal is scheduled for the exact period when we're having furniture packed, moving into temporary digs, and cleaning our house. So, I'll send my son to Ordeal with two other Scouts from our Troop and one of my ASMs who also got tapped out, and I'll be doing a bag-drag. I'm happy for him, but sorry I'll miss my first opportunity. And, it's his first Scouting milestone that I'll miss. If it's any consolation, our OA advisor told me he'll give me the letter so I can go through Ordeal in our next Council, and pointed out that my son may be able to lead me through. That'd be neat... KS

I tend to side with the "...this is a no-brainer" crowd who would enforce the swimmer-test rule for all participants. I haven't been to the canoe base specifically, but I grew up in Minnesota and spent a considerable amount of time around Duluth and points north. Regardless of time of year, this isn't the pond at your local council camp. It's really out in the middle of nowhere, a long way from help if there's trouble, and the weather up there can do very unexpected things (as Captain McSorley from the SS Edmund Fitzgerald learned). Yarrow, I realize this isn't your troop, but I'm curious: why hasn't the lad passed his swimmer test? Has he passed the beginner's test? Without the swimmer's test, he's not a First Class Scout...should he even be going to Ely? We have a comparable situation here. We plan a "medium adventure" trip for a week every year to an island 60 miles off the coast. We stay at a military-run rec center, but there are no other US support facilities on the island. Because of the distance and lack of US facilities, we require each Scout who goes to be at least a Second Class Scout, and complete the Class 3 physical. It's publicized far enough in advance that there's plenty of time to get everything done, and we provide opportunity for the swim test, too, even though it means a road trip to an Army base with an indoor pool. We explain everything to the parents, and they understand (and appreciate) the minimum requirements we lay on. In that context, I don't understand why a parent would insist his/her child be placed in a dangerous situation without proper preparation. KS

I used to be a Buffalo... And, I can no longer bear to watch someone eat a buffalo burger without feeling creepy! KS

SH: Excellent! Thanks for sharing... KS

The thick plastc hotel laundry bags with drawstrings work pretty good, too. KS

Amen, Saltheart. Some of us have permanent backaches from spending so much time in a defensive crouch... KS

If I can take the liberty to substitute the word "unknown" for "secret", it'll continue to be unknown until you go, then it will be known. I don't think that's a deliberate plot on the part of BSA National to keep the masses of unwashed volunteers from enlightenment. Rather, I believe it's just an oversight...but, an oversight consistent with what I see as a reluctance (unintended, probably) on the part of BSA National to "push" information to the vols at the unit level. It becomes personality dependent; if you've been around for a while, if you ask the right questions, if your DE is a "lean forward" type, etc., the resources are available. If not, then "you don't know what you don't know". WB as a case in point; there's a fact sheet on it, that's outdated, on the BSA National site. A deliberate attempt to misinform us? Of course not, just somebody not paying attention. Now, if somebody in your District is making a game out of it, that's another matter... KS

Well, I'm an Air Force guy, and I remember the first time we were authorized to carry umbrellas in uniform, in the late '70s. I was a young law enforcement patrolman, on the scene of a rather nasty traffic accident; it was raining of course. My shift sergeant, who had just helped us get the last victim out and on his way to the hospital, asked me if there was anything else he could do to help. I asked him if he would divert traffic at the next intersection; he disappeared and I went back to my measurements. A few minutes later, I looked toward the intersection and saw, to my horror, my shift sergeant, in full uniform, armed, with a whistle in one hand and an umbrella in the other, directing traffic. It was unbelievably ridiculous looking. While authorized, there are unwritten umbrella taboos in many units. With gore-tex or other good rain gear, you don't need one, and not carrying an umbrella keeps both hands free. I certainly wouldn't beat up on a Scout who wanted to carry an umbrella...I'd just wait the 15 minutes or so for him to figure out for himself that they aren't practical for most of our activities.... KS

Ed; Our condolences; keep the faith... KS

From the "Department of Redundancy Department": As I and others have said, we'll only achieve full and complete uniforming (if that's a goal, and it oughta be since it's one of our methods) when uniforms are both mandatory and affordable. Not one or the other, but both. We seem to live in constant fear that if we require a full uniform, Scouts will quit. I don't think they will, but even if a few do, then so be it. If you hadn't lost them over a pair of pants today, it'll be over something else tomorrow. If a lad wants to be in band, baseball, or ROTC, he wears the uniform, no matter how uncomfortable, expensive, or dorky. Yet, we collectively acquiesce to parents'/Scouts' uniform "pushbacks", then grouse to each other about it. And, setting an example alone doesn't cut it. I'm a full-uniform guy, and so is my son, right down to the socks. Our troop is about 50% full-uniform, though, and I know Scouts in the Troop who have full uniforms but are still "waist-up". We encourage full uniforming with monthly inspections, patrol flag streamers, and a coupon each month for the individual Scout with the most uniform inspection points. Regardless, we've leveled off at less than 50%. As long as National encourages and does not require, we will not look like a BSA training video. I'd like to have a fully-uniformed Troop, but without a BSA hammer, it's only wishful thinking. "If you always do what you always did, you will always get what you always got." KS

We're looking at a similar situation here, except in this case, the father's playing both ends against the middle with our district and the former district in the U.S. To our credit, we're holding the lad to requirements (which it doesn't appear he'll be able to complete before his 18th BD IMO). It looks as if Dad is whipping things through his former district. We're not sure of course, because he's understandably evasive about it, and don't know how much we can or should do about it. Sad thing is, the Scout's a good kid/athlete/honor student, just lost interest in Scouting while a Life; it's his dad who's pushing him (he's an Eagle, as are the other boys in the family). Really leaves a bad taste in the mouth... KS

Well, my circle of friends just decreased by one. I've just been notified that a friend and former co-worker of mine was killed in Iraq on May 19th. An Army officer with a wonderful personality (no, they're not mutually exclusive), and a dedicated family man, he made going up to Seoul a real pleasure...and when you're in the antiterrorism business like we both were and I still am, there isn't much pleasure to be had. This is no easier now than it was the first time 26 years ago. Please remember Dominic "Rocky" Baragona and his family in your thoughts and prayers -- and please don't take for granted the special people in your lives; they can be gone so suddenly. thanks, KS