KoreaScouter

If you're dealing with your feeder pack and you know you're getting these lads, as opposed to the "just looking" types who show up unannounced, I use the AOL SM conference, held in conjunction with the AOL Troop meeting visit, as partial fulfillment of the joining requirements. When I have my parents' meeting after crossover, while the SPL is with the Scouts, I show them the pamphlet, ask them to go over it with their sons within a week, and ask them to call or e-mail me when they've completed the exercises. We award the Scout badge at the next COH. It works well for us. You're right, the Scout badge isn't a rank, it's a badge that shows the Scout completed the joining requirements. That's how I answer when asked why there's no BOR for Scout... KS

What a timely thread. I just realized the other day that I rarely wear my watch any more. At work, I've got clocks all over the place, and when I'm tooling about, my cell phone has a clock on it. I always carry it in my backpack, but it's almost never on my wrist. I've had the same watch for about 6 years. It's a Wenger Swiss Army watch, analog, with one of those titanium-looking brushed metal bands. It has a date window, but I can barely see the darn thing, especially in low light situations, without my glasses on. It must have gotten smaller since I got it, 'cuz I could see it fine when I bought it. I bought little KS a pretty slick Timex outdoors watch with a built-in digital compass a couple months ago. It was on the clearance table at Sports Authority for just $28. It's quite accurate, although the setup took a little doing. KS

As someone who was born and mostly raised in Minnesota, I have to ask one question, very gently: what in the world is "chihuahua cheese"? I'm not sure I'm ready for the answer... KS

Don't get me wrong, I don't send Scouts home if they aren't wearing official socks. I've had Scouts come up to me before a meeting, apologizing because they changed on the way to the meeting from school, and forgot their belt. I understand, encourage him to remember it next time, and we press on. Are all my Scouts committed, "all the way in"? Heck, no. I've got one who's quit and rejoined at least four times since I've been here. Others who don't want leadership positions, and some who do but don't put the effort in. Some take sports seasons off, and some who show consistently for meetings, but not for outings, and vice versa. I'll re-register all those critters until they're 18, as long as they tell me they still want to belong. This is a marathon, not a sprint, after all. Some of those will eventually quit "dipping their toe in the water" and jump in with a cannonball. On the other hand, some will quit, and some will stay but not advance, develop fully as leaders, or get everything they can out of the program. Ultimately, that's their choice, not mine. I don't know if it's a matter of "letting them go" -- that term implies we have a choice in the matter. I don't force anyone out, but I can't force them in or force them to stay, either. I lay out the buffet, it's up to them to grab a plate and dig in. I don't know to what extent an uncommitted or partially committed Scout can pull others down. The lads are surrounded by that at school, sports, and elsewhere, and amid apathy in all those settings, motivated boys still excel. We're no different in my opinion. And, the great thing about Scouting is that you're only competing with yourself. Do Scoutmasters get the Troops they deserve? I'd say yes, if we pulled all the strings, made all the decisions, and controlled all the variables. Alas, we don't. I have to bite my tongue at the chaos and inefficiencies that are inherent in adolescent boys learning to lead and make decisions, planning and running their own program, with all the hiccups and bumps that come with being an adolescent boy. It may be like making sausage -- you don't want to watch it being made, but the end product's not bad. At any rate, how do you assess a Troop? Is it based on how many ribbons they win at a camporee? How many Eagles they produce? How much popcorn they sell? How many UC wooden nickels get handed out at uniform inspections? Or, is it based on an intangible we can't really determine unless/until we can look in on each lad when he's 25, and measure how his Scouting experience shaped him as a man? Thanks Eammon. That smell is my brain cells cooking... KS

Your CC's out of line. If the ASM is as experienced as she seems to be, she knows he's out line. Somebody had better rein him in or you stand a good chance of getting a lot of District/Council help you don't necessarily need in running your unit. KS

You have several separate issues, parallel but related. First, if "Joe" is displaying a negative pattern of behavior, that needs to be dealt with with the committee and the parent(s). On the election, that one's history. Try to create a more democratic environment for the next one, without any "company goons beating up union organizers". On "Joe's" POR, if his actions are having a negative effect or sending the wrong message to the rest of the Troop, you need to do something. It may be removal, it may be something else...you're in the best position to determine that. There's no place for that kind of intimidation in a Scout unit. This should be one place where they're not carrying that kind of burden around with them. KS

If it's something you want to do, you'll do whatever you need to do in order to participate, including getting and wearing a uniform. Look around, there are plenty of examples everywhere. We need to quit apologizing for being a uniformed movement. Call it a commitment test if you want, but if you're getting a pushback on a uniform or a handbook, Scouting something they probably aren't serious about anyway. I've done recruiting in a variety of ways, in both Cubs and Boy Scouts. Many come to the roundup, or stop at your table, but all don't take the literature, or come back, or stick with it. That's fine; if this were easy, everyone would do it. I had two Scouts quit a couple months ago, both crossed-over Webelos who should have known better, who left because they didn't realize there was such an outdoor emphasis tied in with the advancement program. Huh? Where were you when your den completed their AOL requirements? Bottom line: I'd rather have 15 Scouts who are "all the way in" than 30 whose commitment is half-hearted at best. KS

When my branch of military service contemplates a uniform change, here's how it works. There's a uniform board that meets periodically and considers change proposals from the field; anyone can suggest a change. The board considers them all, throws out the crazy ones (i.e., flowered dress and feathered boa), and then those that constitute a major overhaul are field tested. Several hundred members are selected at random to test the new uniform for a specified period of time, as long as a year. Their comments are fed back to the uniform board, changes made if necessary, and the uniform hits the shelves and supply warehouses. It works okay, even if it takes a while. The key to the field test is the random selection of the members. The test subjects include new airmen and general officers. And, they're very candid with their feedback. Why wouldn't a similar method work with changes to the BSA uniform? KS

I normally wear a pair of Hi-Tec lightweight hikers here. I've gone as far as 20 on rolling terrain with a daypack, no problem. For serious walkabouts with a full pack, I go with my Danners. Fit, comfort, durability, support, all first rate. I have Matterhorns that keep me warmer, but they're too heavy for long distances. KS

Any of the self-inflatables from ThermaRest are a sure bet. I have a CampRest, 2 1/2" thick when inflated, that has kept me snuggly during winter camps in Korea. Stay away from imitations; I'm particularly unimpressed with Coleman's self-inflatables... KS

I use two; a Coleman multi-fuel that works okay, but the connections and pump-up is a little involved. The other is a butane canister stove I got in Korea. Works like a champ, and it's quick/easy to get going...no fuel bottle leaks, either. The fuel canisters were real cheap in Korea (about 75 cents), but they cost over four bucks here. KS

When I was a Cubmaster, I insisted my DLs use the program helps. Why mess with a plan that's worked for 75 years? Moreover, with different programs at each level, the best way to ensure that each level is age-appropriate, feeding into each other, and they sync up at pack meetings, is to use the program helps. The DLs and dens I saw that had the most difficulty were the ones who tried to get too creative. KS

It means just what the name implies; the boys run the Troop. That is, the SPL and ASPL direct the activities of the PLs, the PLs and APLs direct the activities of their patrols, and the appointed leaders do their jobs under the supervision of the ASPL and in concert with the adult leader they're intertwined with. I think it's important to note a couple things. First, this whole notion is best represented as a line, not a point. The "boys" who are responsible for this leadership form a team whose abilities to lead will move on a continuum from one meeting, one activity, one Troop election, to the next. As adults, we can't make the mistake of projecting the leadership skills of an older experienced SPL or PL on a younger, less experienced one. Or, assuming that because a particular meeting went well, that the next one automatically will because the same green bars will be there. A perceptive leader will know where his green bar leadership team is in their ability to plan and execute, and give them the amount of top-cover they need to succeed. Do I insist that they fly solo the night they're elected? Of course not; we conduct TJLT right after elections, and there's lots of coaching at the front end of their tenure. Do I expect that they get incrementally better as time goes on and move from dependence toward self-sufficiency? Sure, but I don't see it as equivalent to flipping a light switch, and I know that they may sometimes take a step forward and two back. Basically, I need to be more hands-on with a new PLC, less so as they get experience and confidence. Second, boy-led doesn't mean boy-led-into-the-ground. If my unit is failing, my DE or DC is not going to ask my SPL why -- they're going to ask me. I'll intervene in anything, in a second, if it crosses a certain threshhold, from a unit consequence standpoint. What's the threshhold? It's hard to say because it's so situational, and the lads are so resilient. That said, let me just say that I'll allow what some call "controlled failure" up to the point where that failure looks repetitive or has a negative impact on the delivery or enjoyment of the program for another Scout or Scouts. For example, if a patrol leader attends training, makes the PLCs, is trying hard, and is generally getting better, everybody will be very patient with him. However, if he's mailing it in or making the same mistakes over and over, and we're losing Scouts because of his action or inaction, it's time for a change. One thing I'll never do is stand by, watch a train wreck I know is coming, and do nothing to prevent it by proclaiming the boys are in charge. To me, that's nothing more than a uniformed version of "gotcha" or "stump the dummy". Leadership Development is a method, but only one of eight. I work very hard to keep them all in balance, so that I'm not overemphasizing one at the expense of any of the other seven. KS

MB counselors are not registered as unit Scouters (unless they're already unit Scouters). It's a code "47" for position. The separate MB Counselor form is important because it tells District/Council which MBs the prospective counselor wants to counsel. If they're processing the application through you or someone else in your unit, be sure to make a copy of both so you can start making referrals after they're approved and you don't have to wait until the updated MB Counselor listing comes out. If a prospective MB counselor IS already a unit level Scouter, they still need to fill out the MB Counselor form, to get them into the MB counselor data base at District/Council. I recommend YP and MB counselor training. There's several versions; I use one that includes unit responsibilities, Scout responsibilities, and counselor responsibilities. I also go over the requirements book, MB pamphlets, and blue card in some detail. Takes a couple hours. KS

Okay, we're getting derailed here, but you guys threw the switch. If you want a real chuckle, do a google search on "the man song" and listen to it. You'll cry from laughing... KS

FOG's characterization of the two leaders in his unit employs two types of logical fallacies in one example. The first is simply error in the argument, which is illustrated when you break it down. "These two guys went to WB. They are bad. Therefore, WB is bad". The second is in confusing correlation with causation. The fact that two events are somehow linked in time or space does not mean that one causes the other. "I watched American Idol. It began to rain. Therefore, American Idol causes rain." SR540's right, garbage in, garbage out. I've always found it amusing that people who will, by and large, seek out opportunities to get better at what they do, resist opportunities to do so when it comes to Scouting. KS

Ask the SM why they do it that way. Chances are, he's not hard over one way or the other...it's "just how we've always done it". In my current Troop, all youth leaders were elected prior to my arrival. I asked why, and got "...I dunno, that's how we've always done it". Youth didn't know any different. We follow the book now. I'm curious to learn what he says... KS

1). Don't read Playboy at all, or any other so-called "adult magazines". (I know that wasn't a literal question, but thought I'd better answer it anyway, lest I leave something to the imagination). 2). I don't know enough about FOG to determine if he's an "all right guy". Nor do I set the entry credentials to allow someone on the forums -- that's ScouterTerry's job. That's not a copout, it's just a statement of fact. 3). I know that youth also access the forum. My son uses the Internet, and I monitor his use. If I didn't think he should use this or any other site, I wouldn't permit him to. Parents set that standard for their kids. 4). If I heard some things from Scouts that I've read from FOG, I may have a word with them. FOG's an adult, and is entitled by age to do things youth are not permitted to do, especially while we're trying to mold their character. One may argue that FOG is sometimes a bad example. If that's what you think, use him as such. I had a DE once who had no bedside manner at all, and the shortest fuse I ever saw on a human. He's not going to change, and I'm not going to walk. What do you do? Take him with a grain of salt, and look for the good. It's no secret that FOG and BW don't exchange Christmas cards. BW's dealing with it in a way that suits him. I hope we're not suggesting that only people we always agree with should be allowed to stay... KS PS: Purel; Camp Pupukea slots are filling up fast; I'm maxed out and hoping I don't get any Johnny-come-latelies...

Just like a stool can't stand on one leg, Scouting can't survive at any level if only the units are healthy, or only the District staffs are running smoothly, or only the council is squared away. All three have to be in some sort of equilibrium. If any one of the three isn't, the other two have to compensate somehow. I see this issue in my District, a recent breakout that's still going through growing pains. We have plenty of leaders at the unit level, but most don't understand Scouting above the unit level -- several reasons. They're not all trained up, we haven't historically been big participants in District-level activities (with some exceptions), and many haven't been at it long enough to have been solicited to help at the District level. To the typical unit-level volunteer, Scouting functions above the unit level are akin to the College of Cardinals. I think the best source of District-level volunteers is from the ranks of experienced unit-level volunteers. People who consider you a traitor or spy are showing their ignorance, and underscore the point I'm making in my last paragraph. They have to be educated and converted first, so they make the connection between dedicated volunteers wearing silver shoulder loops, and the quality of the unit level programs. Then, they'll have a more mature viewpoint. What a great topic. I'm on the road this week, and when I turned over my "SM box" to my fill-in before I left, we had a conversation just like this. In fact, I plan to do another year+ as SM, then move to the UC ranks... KS

I try to consider the forum members as Scouters in a circle around a campfire, albeit a virtual one. I've had grouchy contrarians in every unit I've been with, and sometimes they've driven me nuts, but I wouldn't run any of them out of town on a rail. Whether or not we agree with his points or his style in presenting them, he keeps coming back here because he wants to participate. I prefer to occasionally shake my head over someone's post than to banish them. My opinion only. KS

He's not really stealing it; he's just converting it into carbon dioxide...

Most parents and many volunteers have no idea how BSA is organized above the unit level. My first roundtable as a new leader, everybody was a commissioner of something-or-other -- they were all interchangeable to me and I had no idea who was supposed to do what. People don't know what they don't know. When I was a new Cubmaster, my two biggest sources of help and advice were my assistant Cubmaster and my UC. Wish I had one now (the UC, not the assistant Cubmaster). KS

MeanPC: Welcome to the forums -- lots of great people on here, and they're not afraid to tell you what they think! We've beat this horse to a pulp more times than I can count, but I think it may still be moving, so... You're absolutely right, that camo isn't part of the Cub Scout uniform; it's not part of the Boy Scout uniform, or the Venturing uniform, either. And, when those critters grow up and do join the military, they're in for a rude awakening if they think they can mix/match their uniform items like many of our Scout units allow them to. I've heard and read all the arguments about it, and I firmly believe that to the camo apologists, it's not really about fit, durability, or comfort -- plenty of commercial products from REI, Columbia, and others do all those things for the same or less $$ than surplus or catalog military camo. What it's really about is wanting to wear/carry military stuff outdoors. Nothing wrong with that if that's what you like, but let's call it what it is rather than throw red herrings out there. Last time I checked, we have eight methods, and the uniform is one of them. It's not a buffet where you can take the dessert and leave the vegetables, it's a blue plate special. Unfortunately, BSA doesn't give us a hammer like a little league sports coach has to underscore the uniform method. Do I send Scouts home if they're not wearing official socks? Of course not. But, I do make a huge fuss over those who make the effort to wear it properly, make sure wooden nickels are handed out at uniform inspections, preach to the PLC about how wearing the proper uniform reinforces their position and authority, and so on. My son's a Life Scout, wears the complete uniform, right down to service stars. Doesn't complain about it, for several reasons. One, I do the same thing, every week. Two, it's what he's always done. Three, whether it's homework, his grass-cutting business, household chores, or anything else in his life, I try to make sure he knows and applies "what right looks like". The proper uniform at a Scout activity is what right looks like. It may not be what right FEELS like, but that's another matter. Do I think the uniform's perfect? Would I change it if given a chance? No, and yes. But, it doesn't matter, because you wear the uniform you have, warts and all. Complaining it should be more comfortable is like complaining that salt should be less salty. It is what it is. I had a brand new Scout last night, recruited "off the street" without CS experience by another lad in our Troop, tell me that he can't get a uniform because his mom doesn't have the money. We chatted for another couple minutes, then I eased into the "what other activities do you like?" question. Of course, he answered with the usual: soccer, basketball, martial arts, paintball. None of it free, and all requiring some distinctive clothing/equipment in order to "play", and mom more than willing to fork over the $$. Sigh. KS

I used to be ambivalent about by-laws, and every unit I've been with as an adult had them when I got there, tweaked them here and there, and had them when I left. I say I was ambivalent because I was very new at this, and the by-laws seemed to fill in gaps in my training and experience. My opinion has evolved somewhat. I don't see the by-laws question as a false dilemma (you either have them or you don't). Rather, I look at the value of by-laws in terms of what they're accomplishing for your unit. Essentially, I don't think by-laws are neccessary to program delivery -- there's plenty of BSA guidance out there already if our unit leaders are trained on it and follow it. However, if there's a place for by-laws, I think it's on the committee side, where committees can range in size from three to however many adults you can cram in a room, and responsibilities divided accordingly. Also, I find that in general, committee members are more often "draftees" rather than volunteers, and less experienced than the SM and ASMs. Most of the "what if" questions posters use to argue in favor of by-laws point to committee issues; finance, equipment accountability, paperwork, procedural stuff. Sure, there's program ties with all that stuff, since everything we're doing should be related to the program or it's a self-licking ice cream cone. But, they're essentially committee issues -- if you need by-laws to keep all that straight, Mr. committee chairman, go ahead and write by-laws. But, I don't need by-laws to tell me as an SM that SPL candidates need JLTC first, or other program planning and delivery details. My current Troop has by-laws (currently under major revision by the committee). They actually said that PL candidates had to be First Class Scouts. When we had our first Troop elections after I came on board, we had a problem due to some patrol imbalances. My advice to the newly-elected SPL? Have the Scouts elect the boy who they think will do the best job; it doesn't matter what his rank is. After he got over his initial shock, that's what they did. One of the Scouts elected PL was a Tenderfoot, and although his picture probably won't be on the cover of the next PL Handbook, he worked his tail off and did okay. And, the earth didn't open and swallow me up, either. KS

SPL's 15 1/2, and a retread. Our ASPL's 14, and just did a term as a PL (darn good one, too). Our PLs (excluding NSP, they rotate every month) range from 11 1/2 to 14. Three PLs are retreads, the other two are rookies. KS