koolaidman

As a possible reason for the disparity between youth/parents and scouters: Scouters have the most at risk from a legal liability standpoint. If something bad were to happen at an outing, scouters are the first and biggest target. Even if BSA were to indemnify scouters, scouters are still drug through the mud.

Band Aid: Click on the Filter button under the subscribe button in the lower right hand corner. When "All time" is selected, I could only view topics sorted by Title or replies.

Back from meeting. Much to the adults surprise, the boy comes in with printed notes and directions for the boys for his game. (Silver Dollar Hunt from Troop Program Resources). He has one compass and has to ask around for quarters. We let those with phones break them out for the game only so they could use the compass apps. He had his partner and a buddy set up the "silver dollars" (quarters) outside while he explained the game to the patrol. Only one quarter was lost. We (adults) let them play their game, then gave pointers on walking a straight line after taking a bearing then we (adults) explained estimating the height of a tree since we knew none had experience with that before. The boys were able to learn multiple lessons (adults too) and all had a good time. SM was to talk with the PL to let him know its always a good idea for him to have an Ace up his sleeve. We were able to walk away feeling pretty good about the mini chaos that was our second boy-led meeting. I know the chaos is more in our adults heads than anywhere else. It was a good meeting. Thank you to everyone who chimed in. If anyone has additional comments they are still appreciated.

Thanks for the advice Venividi. It is a pseudo punishment but wouldn't have been presented that way. It would have been a cheerful demonstration of sewing on a patch. If they happened to complain about what they were doing, they'd have been sent to the PL...

forgot to add: We've showed them Troop Program Features. We have hard copies at our meeting site and told them where to get it online. We've walked the SPL how to run a PLC, how to fill out a meeting plan, etc. Have not advised them to have a secondary plan. We will advise the PL that he needs to advise his appointees/volunteers to have their own backup plans in case things go wrong (weather, materials etc), and will also advise PL to have his own plan in case others aren't able to come through.

Update for all concerned: PL blasted a text out to his patrol yesterday reminding those running the show that they need to be prepared. SM had an incidental meeting with the boy I'm concerned about yesterday and brought up tonight's meeting. We'll see how it goes. Not certain if we'll come to a fork in the road tonight, but if we do, we'll take it

We are indeed guilty of not properly training up the boys. Basically that is the only reason I would even think of having a backup plan in place.

moosetracker, the page count seems to be working with some new topics. I'm not ready to declare it fixed, but not sure if its still broken either.

Oh and a backup plan for when boys don't show up/get sick or do their jobs.

The troop is 10 boys in one patrol. We started with 6 in September. We expect 2 more at the end of May. The SPL/PL is using the meeting plan in the SM handbook and utilizing Troop Program Features and Troop Program Resources. Prior to now, we had adult leader led instruction, games, whatever during the meetings. Now with the meeting plan different boys lead different parts of meetings with activities the PLC determined. Boy A will have pre-meeting game/activity ready to go, Boy B&C will be color guard for flag ceremony, Boy D teaches the skill, Boy D runs the game etc.... The I'm concerned about is the patrol scribe, who has trouble remembering to write things down (despite reminders). He forgets to take attendance (despite reminders) and his mind wanders during the meetings. He's really the main reason we've realized we need to do better POR counseling and that it wouldn't be cool to tell him what a terrible job he's been doing if we haven't coached him properly. Overall picture: 3 Second Class, 3 Tenderfoot, 4 Scouts. We have an SPL/PL, APL, Scribe and QM. We have 2 ASMs

Additional info: I am ASM. Our oldest scout is 13, all the others are 10-12. Highest rank is Second Class. A neighboring troop provided an ILST class for them a couple of months ago. The original scouts we had did not have the skills as represented by their rank. The troop started up 5 months earlier than initially anticipated. There was quite a bit of chaos in ascertaining exactly what the boys accomplished as they never returned to their other troop after summer camp. Old troop held the advancement records for ransom (balances on scout account. Since I was the only neutral party I had to actually go exchange a check for the troopmaster records). I've been trained the entire time. SM just finished SMS, he's been IOLS since day one. We have one scout that will most likely make First Class before May is out. Another one is somewhat likely, yet another would really have to work to get there by May. We are almost starting from scratch. Sentinel: Your advice is about what I expected to hear. We acknowledge exactly where we are and where we are trying to be. We've been directing the boys most of the time and we're in process of handing over the reins. SM and I have agreed that patrol method and POR counseling needs to be our focus for the upcoming year. So at this juncture, with the meeting on Monday (I know timing is bad, but that really is a sunk cost now), it would be prudent for the SM to call the SPL/PL to see if he's checked up on the responsible boys to make sure they are ready for the meeting. We will do that. Assuming the SM has done the requisite check up during the week and regardless if the SPL does his, if no one is prepared for his section of the meeting how would you handle? How do you teach both the boys the lesson? The SPL has the responsibility to do the checking up and the boy has the responsibility for program content. What's the best way to make the SPL realize that he needs a backup plan without making him feel at fault AND make the boy realize his responsibility at the same time? During the meeting and the after meeting counsel?

Our troop is less than a year old. We've been meeting since September. The boys have been advancing slowly as they start to figure out the they are responsible for their advancement and not the adults. We are finally transitioning to boy led meetings. The first one we had scheduled was a two weeks ago. The SPL/PL was not prepared, however our SM had to do a summer camp presentation so we did that instead. The SPL/PL was prepared for the last meeting we had, and things went pretty well. For our next meeting, I am 80% confident the boy who is supposed to do the activity/skills introduction will not be prepared. I don't want to "reward" a scout being unprepared for his meeting by having ad-hoc games or an engaging adult-led backup plan, however I don't really want the other scouts to have an unproductive meeting either. So my "plan B" is "uniform maintenance". If the boy leader is unprepared, then everyone will sit down and learn to sew on a patch and how to make a small sewing kit for camping. I think it kills two birds: 1. There should be no excuse for missing patches on uniforms. 2. It should be unpleasant enough for the boys to see that we won't have a fun program if they don't prepare. I'd like to hear what you guys think, as I feel a little guilty of violating the patrol method in even thinking of a plan B, but the boys are still new to taking on the responsibilities of boy-led. What do you think?

Guy lines are mentioned in the instructions. Those would certainly help in keeping it from tipping over.

Those big trips are not uncommon in my area. We are a small sized new troop, so I hope we will be dealing with those kind of requests later rather than sooner. If a big trip request does come up, I do plan on asking "What activities do they have there, that we can't do closer?" A good lesson in being thrifty. HA is one thing, but driving from SE TX to Colorado for a normal summer camp seems a bit much.

I like this approach as nothing teaches thrifty like taking cash out of your pocket and handing it to someone else.

It was in my youth. Post scouts. Decided to slice a pear while it was still on the tree. With a sheath knife. Maybe if proper banning were in place while I was a scout it wouldn't have happened? (tongue firmly in cheek).

I'm not looking for expertise. I noticed in the fishing mbc guide, there were some helpful notes on what to expect when working with scouts. I was hoping there would be helpful notes for other merit badges. They could be helpful in recruiting mbc's for our troop.

Still holding out hope that someone has stumbled on it

Thank you for your story. We are currently considering stove options and it is good to hear about how easily things can go wrong. We've all done "stupid" acts before, but only the truly stupid folks don't learn from them... Me? I'll never try to stab a pear while holding it with the other hand again.... I'm glad no one got hurt.

If he is paid up, registered and doesn't keep anyone else from attending, let him go. I've had issues with some cubs not participating in the past. I finally decided I didn't care about the times they were not there, as long as they had fun the times they were there.

I was googling items related to merit badge counselors and came across a Counselor Guide Fishing Merit Badge at: http://www.scouting.org/filestore/Outdoor%20Program/pdf/FishingCounselorGuide.kc.pdf Does anyone know how to navigate to this counselor guide without google, starting at http://www.scouting.org? Secondary question, does BSA have a similar counselor guide for other merit badges? It would be nice if there was just one place you could go to on scouting.org to browse online publications.

Page 6 of the 2013 requirements books: "The rank requirements in this book are official as of January 1, 2013. If a Scout has started work toward a rank before that date using requirements that were current before January 1, 2013, he may complete that rank using the old requirements. Any progress toward a rank that is begun after January 1, 2012, must use the requirements as they are presented in this Boy Scout Requirement book." For the Eagle required merit badges it is different though. On the inside cover of the 2013 Requirement Book: "Starting Jan. 1, 2014, Cooking merit badge will Be Rquired for Eagle Effective Jan. 1, 2014, the Cooking merit badge will be required to botain the Eagle Scout rank. Regardless of when a Scout earned the Life rank or began working toward Eagle, unless he fulfills all the rank requirements--with the exception of his board of review--before Jan. 1, 2014, he must earn the Cooking merit badge to become an Eagle Scout." So you'd have to review each scouts sign off history to be technically correct for ranks.

It's on the Sam Houston Area Council website, which is the only reason I consider it valid.

Per Page 39 of the guide to Awards and Insignia (33066) section 2 found at http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Media/InsigniaGuide.aspx : Totin’ Chip, cloth, No. 8597; Boy Scout; worn as a temporary patch on right pocket; not to be worn on pocket flap. Firem’n Chit, cloth, No. 8599; Boy Scout, worn as a temporary patch on right pocket; not to be worn on pocket flap.

For additional clarity of the IRS/scout account issue, I stumbled across this the other day: http://www.samhoustonbsa.org/my_files/unit_scout_accounts_-_national.pdf It is an undated memo from national stating that allocation of fundraising proceeds to scout accounts based on units sold, or hours worked may be reportable income to the scout and may call into question the NFP status of the CO, Council and BSA. Please don't take my word for it and read it yourself. It's not technical and it's only one page. Bottom line recommendation from BSA if you wish to continue scout accounts (taken directly from the memo): Units who wish to continue to offer “boy account†type plans need to develop fund distribution plans that include criteria other than the sale of items. These might include: • Participation • Leadership • Scout spirit • Advancement