Knot Head

We don't do open house at a school but rathr have an "open house" at the church where we meet during a regular meeting. We get the local weekly suburban paper to run an article (we write it & they run it) and also the elementary schools (2 near us) will stuff a flyer in each 5th grade boy's backpack if we provide them. The article & flyer announce we are having an open house. We do the things suggested above like have one patrol cook dutch oven items. Usually pizza, cobbler, brownies. Even the parents are surprised to see pizza from a dutch oven. Another patrol sets up a dome tent & backpack tent and explains the difference and when each is used. Here we show a back pack and the gear it can hold. We also make Ramen noddle at this station on a backpack stove. Believe it or not most kids have nver had Ramen noodles. We do this outside and if it rains (last year) we set the tents inside and heat water in the church kitchen and just show the backpack stove. Further down another patrol has pictures from campouts and tells them what we did during the last year. Last station is for showing lashings, knots, first aid. We open the meetng and then the SPL, ASPL and older scouts if we have more than 10or12 walk groups of 5 around station to station. While the boys walk around the SM, CC and activity chair meet with the parents and talk about our troop. I'm gonna borrow the "rulebook speech" if that is okay for the closing. That is awesome!

I guess I'm a stick in the mud. When I think scouting outdoor activity for a weekend or for summer camp I think canoes, kayaks, white water trips, snow skis, fishing, backpacking, camping, climbing, wilderness survival, etc. Yes we've done a troop water sports (water ski & wake board) merit badge activity but that is different IMHO than 10 guys going in 10 directions with a machine as loud as hades. I'd never want to go to a summer camp with jet skis (or go-carts) so I hope things like go-carts and jet skis don't catch on at summer camp.

We stress this at each campout and explain why. Whether it's skunks, racoons, mice (think food chain... snakes eat mice) you don't want to atract critters to your tent. Basically we try to explain why. This year I found a skittle wrapper in the common area at summer camp. At group the question was posed "who wants a skunks or copperheads in their tent tonight?" No raised hands. "Well, if you don't want a skunk or a copperhead in your tent you better eat the skittles at the trading post and not in your tent or common area."

We have a program similar to Buffalo Skipper's. Tie the 6 required knots in 2 minutes and you are a "knot head" and get a turk's head knot to wear as a slide. Tie all 6 blindfolded in under 2 minutes and you get into the "knot-a-hall-of-fame" (say it fast) aka "Da Hall". The troop record for doing all 6 knots blindfolded is 59.65 seconds. We also do "tournaments" on campouts set up like the NCAA tournament with brackets, seedings, etc. The guys really get into that.

Do you wear Class A when traveling to and from campouts? We do. We wear class A to and from all campouts, changing when we get there. On the way to the campout it has not ever been a big deal. However, the scouts have requested for some time now to wear class Bs - what they have been wearing all weekend anyway - for the ride home. Im interested what other troops do and your opinion on whether this should be decided by the the troop committee level or the PLC level. Also is there a BSA rule that requires the class A uniform on the route to and from a campout? Is this just a suggestion or tradition or a rule? Thanks in advance for the opinions. Kinda curious what other folks do.

We let older guys tent alone on rare occasions like an odd number on a backpacking trip. No one wants to squeeze 3 guys into a small 2 man backpacking tent. Also if we have an odd number at summer camp the SPL tents alone since only two can get in a summer camp tent. With dome tents (plop camping) it's never an issue. They can go three to a tent easily. Buddy system still applies if nature calls during the night.(This message has been edited by knot head)

This is an interesting topic. Our troop class Bs have our troop logo and number in giant font in electric orange color. When you wear that t-shirt EVERYONE knows you are a boy scout, especially when you invade a Burger King with 20+ people in the exact same shirt that scream BOY SCOUTS. What is interesting to me is that in our troop no boys complain about wearing the class B t-shirt and letting everyone see that they are a boy scout. I do get complaints from 13+ year olds that the Class A looks geeky on the road in a Burger King, but they wear it anyway because it is expected. They are not embarrassed about being identified as a boy scout indeed most display scout activity photos such as canoeing, climbing, backpacking, etc. on their face book page. But they do find the class A embarrassing to wear on the road because in their opinion it looks nerdy. That is just the way they think. They are fine with class B shirts but uncomfortable with Class A on the road, but they wear it anyway. They wear the Class A (socks, shirt, pants, and neckerchief) without complaint to all meetings during the school year and class Bs during summertime meetings. They wear Class A with MB sash to COH and BOR. The troop wears class A going to campouts and then class Bs for the drive home from campouts because we are usually kind of grubby on the way home. Maybe I am wrong but I dont think we would gain or lose any numbers if we changed our uniform policy to allow class B on the way to campouts, but the boys sure would like the policy change. So I guess to answer the thread title... for our troop at least...the uniform does not drive boys away. It is the activities that attract them, so lack of fun & interesting activities, would drive them away. (This message has been edited by knot head)

My scouts (and parents) would cheer wildly if they went to plain white socks. Going to khaki cargo shorts or blue jeans would also get a bit of a cheer. We are 100% uniform as a troop and make use of a clothing exchange system, but they do grumble alot about the socks being uncomfortable and the pants. They seem okay with the shirts.

What an appaling story. I talk to the scouts individually, by patrol and by group about this sort of thing in my most serious "I'm not kidding" voice. And I'm not kidding when I tell them I have no tolerance for hazing. And this goes way beyond hazing. I also have no tolerance for making fun of people with handicaps and/or disabilities in skits or just telling jokes - but that's another thread. I hope this never happens in my troop or to my troop. I'd be po'd on either side of the fence. Duct tape? What in hades were these guys thinking?

I second all the folks that say to buy backpacking lightwight stoves and lightweight gear to start. Our troop has the boys buy their own tents. That way they have a vested interest in taking care of their tent. Practice with a plop camping trip if you need to but then hit the trail to Kayak, Canoe and backpack. You can plop with lightwight gear but you can't backpack with big heavy gear. You can always accumulate the heavy gear later if you want to. Kids get tired of car camping after a year or two in our troop, but there are backpackers & canoe guys in the troop that camp until they age out. My $.02 EDIT: We do about 50/50 car camping & adventure camping. We have the old heavy gear and the light gear. The older scouts seem alot more interested and attendance is better when we canoe, backpack, kayak and go lightweight. If you are staring out you could use the lightweight stoves for both car & adventure camping, but you can't really take a big 'ol stove, cooler, dutch oven and big propane tank on a backpack trip. And don't underestimate the fun a 10-11 year old can have on a 4 mile in 4 mile out backpacking trip. They love it and feel like they are really "roughing it". It's like real scouting. Make them use a compas when you hit a fork in the trail to figure out which way to go. If they pick the wrong trail, let them walk it anyway, it's a good learning experience. They are a little more teachable after a detour like that. The old guys take a 10 mile route while the new guys go 4 miles and we camp together. Start small with a short backpack trip and gain experience. It's not that hard but is alot of fun.(This message has been edited by knot head)

We don't have daily "squirt gun" or "water gun" fights at summer camp anymore since the ban went into effect. We have replaced these with a daily recreational time where scouts run about to enhance their physical fitness. This is now known as "Cool Water Mist Time" or "CWMT" for short. Because of the heat at summer camp the scouts take turns applying a cool water mist upon each other during this time of running about in the heat of the day. This is done to cool each participants body, thereby reducing the chance of heat exhaustion. When a scout has a dose of the cool water mist applied to him for medicinal purposes by a fellow scout then it is his responsibility to pre-treat another scout (to recuce the odds of heat exhaustion) by applying the cool water mist back upon another scout. The water mist is applied with efficient containers labeled by the manufacturer as super soakers. These are perfect for this activity because the soakers can apply a lot of water in a hurry and do a great job of keeping our scouts cool during this important time of daily physical fitness enhancement. Sometimes the scouts resort to using buckets to apply water in mass quantities. We, as a troop do not ever play laser tag. We never did. We used to play "flashlight tag" but since that was banned we had to come up with a new game. We now play "flashlight relay". In flashlight relay one scout (the beamer) tracks all other scouts (the evaders) who are trying to avoid him. When the beamer successfully finds and shines his light on the evader then the evader becomes a new beamer. This continues until all evaders are turned into beamers. Since we want every scout to be a "winner" in this game no points are awarded and the entire troop wins when all scouts are turned from evaders into beamers. Each scout uses his own flashlight, or a borrowed one for this game. The scouts seem to enjoy this game just as much as the old flashlight tag. (This message has been edited by knot head)

We use Rubbermaid action packers instead of a cardboard box. We store no food in these and haul them in the troop trailer or sometimes pickup truck depending on the campout. http://www.rei.com/product/634288 They contain: dutch oven coleman stove large pot & lid smaller pot & lid coffee pot for boiling water (to pour over oatmeal) etc. basic set of cooking utensils scrub brushes to clean up plastic coffee cups for beverage (but they usually all use their water bottles) One larger scout can carry this or two young scouts. It is not too heavy. Each box is color coded so the dutch oven with the red handle goes with the red box. etc. Each campout a patrol is assigned a color. Usually for example the wolf patrol is always red, eagles are blue, etc. Of course when we are backpacking or on a canoe trip we do not use these. We pull out the pots we need for backpacking and use BP stoves instead. Some older patrols use their backpack stoves all the time (their personal gear made from soda cans) since they prefer those. They prefer the fast prearation & fast cleanup of backpacking type food. Their total prep to clean up time for a meal is about 20-30 minutes which gives them more time for play. I don't see any of these guys growing up to be a chef. ;-) (This message has been edited by knot head)

A little off topic but last year at summer camp a troop from another state went on and on at the first morning's leader meeting about being "boy led". The next day the SM from that troop noted that there were scouts in the mess hall wearing hats/caps during the meals. Bear in minds this "mess hall" was an open air pavilion. His comment was "I would never let my scouts wear their hat in the mess hall." The camp director said there really was no "policy" about this and we could decide there was a "no hat" rule for that week if we wanted to. When I suggested the SPL's decide what policy to follow when they met after lunch the guy went ballistic. I guess to him wearing a lid during a meal at summer camp was an egregious violation of etiquette. Moral to the story... boy led is often in the eye of the beholder. Out troop is far from perfect but at least we are trying to be aware of opportunities to let the guys decide. Funny thing was for that week I hat to wear a hat in accordance with the states health laws to serve chow, but had to take my hat off when I sat down to eat the chow.

Our troop policy is that electronic devices like games, IPODS and phones are not allowed on campouts. Scouts can have it in the car/truck but when we reach our destination it stays locked in the leader's vehicle. You need permission to get it out of the car and use it on a campout. I've never in 3 years had a scout ask to use a cell phone locked in the car. While we ride my rules are scouts can text people UNLESS I can hear the keys click. If they cannot silent text then texting is out. Sometimes a kid will bring their Ipod in my truck, but usually the kids just talk among themselves on the ride. Bottom line, they can use the ipod or text in the car unless it starts to bug me. My truck, my rules. Phones are allowed at eagle projects, meetings etc. but have to be on silent and can't be used by boys unless it is an emergency or permission is given. It is kinda handy to see a scout dial a parent to ask if X date is good for him to go camping when appropriate, and ask Mom to bring a check when she comes to pick him up. Usually they just use them to call mom to come get them if we finish up early on a service project. If I ever did see one on a camopout (edit: being used inappropriately) I'd probably just lock it up until the campout was over. If it we were backpacking I'd just stow it until we got back to the parking lot. I suspect guys have them but as long as I don't see them or hear them use them then I'm okay.( With respect to homesick kids borrowing phones calling home and mom coming to get them... So far this has not happened in our troop - at least that I know of. I'd explain why I thought taking Jimmy home was a bad idea and then let mom do her thing. If he never comes back that's her choice. I talk about this at length before summer camp to make sure all parents and I are on the same page. Each year we have homesick guys but so far they have all made it thru summer camp. All but one of them stayed in the troop. The lone exception was returned home safely but we never saw him again.

We are trying to plan an event to allow scouts to qualify for the water sports merit badge. Can anyone who has done this tell me how you complied with the following phrase: "All supervisors must complete... rescue training for the type of watercraft to be used in the activity". We will be using ski boats and instruction provided by very good skiers from a local water ski club. Is there a coast guard or BSA "rescue training" for water ski boats. I have an email to our DE and will ask at the next roundtable but do you all have any ideas? Here is the full quote for context from Safety Afloat: ============== http://www.scouting.org/HealthandSafety/GSS/gss02.aspx Safety Afloat 1. Qualified Supervision " All activity afloat must be supervised by a mature and conscientious adult age 21 or older who understands and knowingly accepts responsibility for the well-being and safety of the children in his or her care, who is experienced and qualified in the particular watercraft skills and equipment involved in the activity, and who is committed to compliance with the nine points of BSA Safety Afloat. One such supervisor is required for each 10 people, with a minimum of two adults for any one group. At least one supervisor must be age 21 or older, and the remaining supervisors must be age 18 or older. All supervisors must complete BSA Safety Afloat and Safe Swim Defense training and rescue training for the type of watercraft to be used in the activity, and at least one must be trained in CPR. It is strongly recommended that all units have at least one adult or older youth member currently trained as a BSA Lifeguard to assist in the planning and conducting of all activity afloat"

If the guy is a jerk there is little you can do about it. I am a huge fan of earlplugs and the 6am wakeup call to keep people from staying up late. I wear earplugs and put one of those wrap around head bands you use to keep your ears warm in winter to keep them in place. If they need to wake me up they'll just have to shake the tent.

The White Mountaisn are a very dangerous place to hike if you are unprepared. I would not hike the Presidential range alone, but that's just me. Having a buddy is a source of heat and can help keep your spirits high, so there are positivies to having a buddy with you if lost. I'll only solo on high traffic trails, just my personal preference. I'm glad this one turned out good as dozens have died in the Presidential range over the years.

This may be a big deal, or it may just be the WH, Congress & the WHO see this crisis as a way to get more money from us suckers. As the White House Chief of Staff likes to say... "never let a good crisis go to waste". In their world nothing like a little news hype to get a bill through Congress to direct a few billion for their constituencies and the WHO.

I don't like it.

We seem to hit this problem each year with 1 or 2 guys. I provide lots of information about summer camp and show them the prior years daily schedule. I also tell them that the boys in our troop that have gone on to make eagle have all gone to summer camp their first three years - some four or five years. I tell them if they do not go they will be behind the rest of their patrol in terms of merit badges and advancement. I offer to let them sign up as an adult leader and stay for some or all of summer camp. Some actually do this and have a good time. I have yet to NOT convince one to let their kid go, but it may happen eventually. We have a blast at summer camp, it is only 190 miles away and the boys are so positive about how much fun it is that we usually don't have too much trouble with this. Also we camp 3 times after cross over before summer camp (March, April, May) and this probably helps alot. Homesickness... we always have trouble with that every year. Sometimes you can guess who it will be, othertimes you get a surprise. (This message has been edited by knot head)

There are good ideas in this thread. Having a scout sharpen the troops tools if he breaks the rules is a great idea. I also like the annual refresher test just like we do for the swimming test. Even guys with the swimming MB take the swim test each year, so why not blade safety too? That is a great idea and I plan to ask if we can do this each year. We already have an annual "first aid month" where we play games and have scenarios at the meeting during this month to teach/review first aid. We also do a "water safety fortnight" each May, so why not add a review of knife safety to the list.

I wish they would ditch the totin' card and move requirement 2c from 2nd class to TF: "On one campout, demonstrate proper care, sharpening, and use of the knife, saw, and ax, and describe when they should be used." We do this on the first campout after crossover. Then just say if you are a tenderfoot you can carry a knife but not before. If a scout is using his knike improperly we warn him once and then take it away for a time. The cards get wet, lost, forgotten and we frankly just don't worry about the cards. We will take a knife away for violations. Multiple offense and you have to repeat the safety course. Sometimes the knife is lost for an hour if they violate a blood circle, longer if the offense deserves it although it has been years since we had a major knife offense. That boy was kicked out of the troop for throwing an open knife at a tent when a scout was inside the tent. No second chance. Gone in 60 seconds.(This message has been edited by knot head)

This is a good answer and I agree. >>In another situation, I may try to make a point with a Scout, but I would still continue the board. "You've done really well tonight and we're passing you with flying colors, but you know we can't officially sign off on your badge until we're able to review the requirements in your handbook. We'll put things on hold until next week. Bring us your handbook and it will only take a minute or two to finish the board of review."

Kudu... you hit the nail on the head with your post in this thread. Our scouts love to backpack, fish, snow ski, canoe, climb, white water raft, pioneer, wilderness survival. Every year they put a campout built around those activities on the calendar. They have a blast. They complain about any the MB's that are "schoolwork" that they have to do. I like your comment: "In a perfect Scouting association, Scouts would fail to achieve Eagle Scout because they hate camping." Daddy_O said ... >>>IMO the "leadership requirements" of which you write are missplaced, and not a good idea. Not every kid is a leader. Many never will be. It's like saying your kid is a scholar. It sounds good, we all want it for our boys, but there is a talent component that you either got it or you don't. To place a non-leader in a leadership position so as to earn them an advancement really weakens the group. This is true in all occupations. Boys follow a natural leader, not a kid who is appointed a leader.

We typically have a fire on Friday night where we just siat and talk a little. Saturday night is up to a patrol and usually we have skits, songs and "bad joke time". But what these guys love is scary stories. The "Iron Claw" gets told one way or another pretty much every campout. We have one large dad with a deep voice who is a good story teller. He will read or just tell a story. He is really good and kind of the highlight of the night. Last time we had a trivia game by patrol and they enjoyed that. We also have an above ground fire pit that we use when car camping.(This message has been edited by knot head)