keschmahalen

Hello, Even with only seven responses, the most of them seem to agree that the elangomat is the best route to take. I agree with Le Voyageur that you should go with your interests. Barring any particular interests, go with elangomat. It gives you a unique chance to reexperiance your ordeal without being overwhelmed or nervous. And, when the ceremonies occur, you may have a deeper appreciation for what is being said. YIS, paul e. conley

Hello, JB, the "oldie but goodie" snipe hunt included leaving the young boys alone in the woods acting like fools and afraid of catching at least a "three" in order to become a member of the "club". Meanwhile the older more mature? boys and sometimes adults? were back safe at camp haveing the time of their life, enjoying their prank. Scouting has matured and such things are not allowed for reasons already stated. Like all things good and bad, they can get out of hand. If I may take the 'tap out' as an example. An honored tradition which was, on occasion, taken too far and thus banned as hazing. In another thread someone mentioned that their lodge still does it by using a feather. A wonderful example of keeping the spirit of the tradition without the hazing. I know that some will still argue that it shouldn't be because the tap out is considered hazing and has been banned. That is for another thread which I hope may be taken up in a proper venue beyond these forums. Packsaddle, that was a good one, thanks for trying to get us back on track, but I think BJ deserved an answer to what I believe was an honest question. YIS, paul e. conley

Hello, Could it be that the COR listed for the pack (for longer than anyone can remember) has passed on, left the church, or just moved away, and his name just carried on the charter because nobody knew, cared, or understood? You have noticed the error, and now you know what is proper. Go to that Scouter, show him the problem, and ask him if he would mind working in the same position for the pack as he is for the troop. If he agrees, point out the situation to the IH when it comes time to recharter to make sure he knows what is going on and that there is no problem from his point of view. ( I doubt that there would be, but if there is explain that they must provide a COR and only one. ) Laurie, from what I have seen of your posts, you have enough to do without worring about this unknown person. Besides the kids in the pack are waiting for you to get through with the paper work. Have a good time, YIS, paul e. conley

Hello, You spelled it correctly the second time and it is lodge #293. Sorry, I do not have a dupe to trade. I am from lodge 271 in Maine and if you are interested in one of our lodge flaps, send me a private message with your dupes list and I would be glad to trade with you. I checked John Conley Williams most recent catalogue and he did not have one listed either. That does not mean that he doesn't have it or couldn't find it for you: Trader@hottrader.com Also looked in the most recent issue of the International Scouting Collectors Association (ISCA) Journal and found two Trade - O - Rees (TOR's) coming up in your general area. In Virginia there is the 13th Annual Star City Scout Trade-O-Ree and Patch Show, Dec. 5 In Roanoke Va. Contact John Hannabass, 2915 Mt. Pleasant Blvd. Roanoke, Va. 24014. And the South Carolina TOR Jan 9-10 in Greenville, Sc. Contact Chris Jensen, cjensen@streamwood.net Chris is also an avid collector, seller, trader. Most important of all, contact the ISCA at their web site: http://www.ScoutTrader.org and become a member. It is well worth the price of admission for their quarterly journal alone. YIS, paul e. conley

Hello, I have been thinking of this for some time, and the recent thread on gifts for SM's finally prompted me to start my first thread. I was pinned so long ago that I can't remember giving my SM anything, (I hope I did). I do remember giving my father an eagle tie clasp and he always wore it! It hurts me that we couldn't find it after he died. I also gave my mother some kind of pin. When I got back into scouting as an adult, I was suprised at the gifts bestowed upon the eagle! I have attended few Eagle COH's. and I was wondering if this is common. I can understand a gift from somebody who was particulary close, but I got the feeling that I had been invited to a birthday party. Gift giving when invited to a party rubs me the wrong way. The only such party I gave for my son, he gave gifts to the guests instead, and when we had one this year for my (six yrs.) daughter, we went to great pains not to tell people it was her birthday. So my obvious question, who gives gifts to the Eagle recipient, and would it be proper to tell people not to bring gifts. If I am ever fortunate to see my son pinned, I would want him to invite a lot of people to share the moment, but I would hessitate if gifts were expected. Thanks in advance for your responses. YIS, paul e. conley

Welcome and remember, you are not a lowly ordeal member because that is the most important step in the order. There is no other such organisation that I know of which has its members selected by people who are not members! Keep up the spirit and Brotherhood should be an automatic step. YIS paul e. conley

Tamegonit Arrowman Welcome to the order, keep up the spirit. YIS, paul e. conley

Hello, Mine is a double. For some reason the Webelos in our pack ended up without any scouts from our corresponding troop, nor the two deep leadership we had expected. When I told my DE, he told me which troops were ajoining our site, and I should try to hook up with one of them. The SM of the troop we camped with made a big thing when one of the Webelos said that his flashlight batteries had died! Burial, headstone, and all. When his ASM said he wouldn't mind turning the tables around, I told him to just play along. Then I asked the Webelos Scout if he wanted to bring his battries back to life. "Sure, how?" I called the rest of the Webelos to get their flashlights and asked the ASM to roundup his boys to do likewise. I told everybody to shine their flashlights on the grave, and if there was enough teamwork and faith then there was no telling what we could accomplish! Soon everybody was gathering around with their flashlights, trying to help out, and the young boy looked at me as if I were nuts. I adked him if he wanted his batteries to come back to life, and when he responded again, in the affirmative, I said "you just got to believe" Right on cue, as if it had been scripted, the SCOUTMASTER, said, "DO YOU BELIEVE!!" He took over from there as if we were at a revival meeting, until finally I turned to the poor incredulous boy. "Your the only one who can do it." What else could he do? But you should have seen the Scoutmaster's jaw drop when that flashlight worked.

Hello, I am on my way out, and have just seen this thread for the first time. So forgive me if everything I say is just repetitious, as I have only read your original query. River2K, you are very clear about your abillities and weaknesses. If I can trust them to be accurate, I would say that you could make a good SM. So go to the present SM and committee, and ask them to provide you with a couple of ASM's who will agree to be the support you need, and the three of you go and serve. YIS, paul

Hello, Singing has always been a favorite part of what I remember when I was a Scout. Even though I could never sing a scale when I had to. The program planner which comes out in a yearly format or in the Scouter magazine usually has one or two songs or participation story to use. Get the pack to learn one song a month and it soon becomes easier for us less gifted singers to "join in". When a Cub Scouter I usually got a volunteer to write the words of next month's song on a large flip sheet of lined paper. Check your parents info sheet for the proper person to select. Choose the one who has good penmenship, but also thinks BSA stands for Babby... They never have the time, but when you can show them how important this simple little task is (they have a month to do it), they may even find an "hour a week". I was not above having a backup song which was easily learned (repeat after me songs with actions are good examples), and if my new volunteer ( X ) didn't get the job done, I would help them. When it came time for the song I would invite X up to the front, explain that X volunteered to help with the pack's song this month (make sure X gets plenty of thanks and applause before continuing). First you are showing X (the Pack) the actions, Then when it comes time to repeat after you, X leads the Pack. By the way, failure is a great educator. I learned the importance of having a flip sheet of the song when i demolished America the Beautiful one pack meeting. If i remember correctly, we ended up trying to sing America the Star Spangled Banner.

Hello, It is part of the uniform. Wear it. Wear it with pride. Wear it correctly. I too care. paul

Hello, At least one of our council camps uses a cannon when we retrieve the colors, and it is quite dramatic. In the meantime, and probably for a long time to come I suspect that the council in question may have a more dramatic and meaningful affect by inserting a moment of silence (is that irony? a moment of silence during a silent ceremony?) in respect for the deceased youth. paul

Hello, While it may not be of immediate help to you, this winter you may want to make sure that if you have a member of the troop who is in the OA you steer him toward attending NOAC next summer. NOAC ( National OA Conference) is an amazing week of training, competition, and shows. The last time I attended as a participant they had a very informative LNT session. A youth who was helped to attend such an event would, I expect, come back excited and prepared to come back to his unit to help do just what you are looking for. I can't say enough about NOAC, yet I doubt that the average Scouter is aware of it. Although primarily geared toward the OA, if more leaders would get their youth involved (excited)their troop camping program should improve. Duh! That's the purpose of OA, BSA's service corps and promotion of camping (after their duty to troop, of course)

Laurie, Another note about merit badges and scouts. Have you noticed how we sort of expect the boy to mature as he follows the scouting trail? Tigers is a den of partners so the new Scout, among other things, may feel more secure among the adult leader before he enters a regular den. Then, as they move up to webelos, the den leader takes a more active role in signing off the Scout's advancement (as opposed to Akela). In Boy Scouts, it becomes more boy run __ your son teaching knots and getting help exploring the handbook is a prime, first hand example. The basic idea (one of them) behind merit badges is that he takes this one more step. Along with a buddy, your boy goes out into the community and finds a qualified councelor (maybe that police officer you mentioned). Your District Executive, Council Office, or District Advancement Committee can provide you with the list of approved, qualified merit badge councelors if the troop does not have the latest copy. If the boys complete all of their merit badges in the confines of a sponsored Scouting event (troop meeting, merit badge college, summer camp, or Jamboree) then an integral part of the merit badge program is missing. However, it happens a lot. It isn't bad, but is a part of what makes this whole program so great. YIS, paul

Laurie, Laurie, I do not presume to answer for Bob. Usually he responds to posts quite promptly from what I've seen, but unless he sent you a private post, let me try to put some apprehension to rest. First I went back to his two previous posts which centered on advancement in rank as opposed to merit badges. Some people frown upon "merit badge" troops (a merit badge or two a month), and for lack of an exact phrase, the official policy is First Class in a year. The purpose for this is that boys tend to stay with Scouting more often when they advance to First Class within the first year or two. There is the exception, my son has been in scouting since the first grade. He is 15yrs. and just made first class this year. There are times when they need to be pushed, and I got tired of hearing him answer, "oh just a few more requirements". I would be happy to hear that your son attends the Jamboree, it is a wonderful experience, and he seems to be on the right track. I would hasten to agree with the post which commented on a Scoutcraft program for first year at summer camp. Toss in a simple merit badge or even two, ok, and I'd be betting that he'll be First Class before you know it. He is having fun, and that is the key.

Hello, I can't believe I've got three copies of the OA Handbook right near my computer desk, and the most recent issue I can find is the '98 revision. "The sash is worn at Order of the Arrow functions and special Scouting activities, when members need to be identified as Arrowmen rendering special services." The wording is the same in the '96 revision, but in the '92 revision it says, "...activities including courts of honor, and on occasions when..." I looked further, but could not find a more recent edition of the handbook, although I doubt that the wording has been changed again. However, I wonder why it was changed in the first place. If not for this thread I would never have looked and I doubt that I would have even noticed the change. I have always gone by what I knew, which was the more encompassing wording. I am going to miss the opportunity to wear the sash at a COH in the future. However, I will continue to wear it when an election team comes to our troop to hold an election or for any other OA activity. I will put it on when the team takes over, and take it off when they are finished, because during that portion of the troop meeting I will be attending an OA activity. YIS, paul

Hello, I recently had a discussion about addressing people. I was always raised to refer to an adult by their title: mr., mrs., father, ect. And I raised my children the same way, insisting that they show these people the proper respect due. Even, at times (or especially), if they said it wasn't necessary. In scouts it was Mr. and their last name. Those who prefered to be called by their first names were called uncle or aunt and their first name, thus giving proper respect and allowing some form of familiarity. I think that it is something which we give up too easily. I don't need a title, but I do believe that the youth need it. We try to teach them to respect others, this is a form of respect. It costs them nothing, but it helps to set a patern. I can still remember, twenty years after graduation, the first time I called my high school coach by his first name. I was schocked, I couldn't believe I had done it. I suddenly realised I had become a peer. Yet, out of respect, I have seldom called him by his first name since. paul

"Thanks, for the memories..." if you want more, try this link: http://home.maine.rr.com/jhall80/alumni/resource/index.htm

Hi, As a scout I was not always too observent. In fact, even to this day I discover things which happened around me as a youth actually had a purpose. I don't remember being taught, or told, about the scouters' knots. If I was, it was an opportunity lost. However, one of my first years on cub day camp staff, I remember we showed the cubs some knots, explained their significance, and who could earn them. KISS. The young cubs were taught about the ones they could earn, and it was helpfull if a Webelos Scout could explain one of those, or an Eagle Scout, another. Older cubs were reminded of what they, hopefully, were gunning for, and if any of them had earned their religious medal, they were recognised again. They were also reminded of the hard work their cub leaders did on a regular basis, and a few knots which they could proudly wear. This was a good opportunity to remind the boys to be on the lookout for these, to ask if that was the --'s knot, congradulations! And, by the way, thank you. By the time they were first year Webelos the knot they were working on was exploited for all it was worth, the others already mentioned, and a few more to add to the list. It still impresses me when I walk by a group of young scouts, an I hear one of them whisper to his companions, "Hey, he's wearing a --- knot."

Hello, I have started reading the posts recently. Spent many nights over the last two months going over the threads which interested me, trying to catch up. Frequently I found that a lot of folks took offense too easily, and often ended up appoligizing, because they read too much into a post or didn't read it correctly in the first place. Being new, I often wasn't sure who was calling who, what, but if it really mattered, it was usually in a jockular manner. I am not aware of the particular episodes which caused you to start this thread, and it is probably not any of my business. But I do know, from other threads, what your motivation is. You are one of a few level heads who write in the forum with regularity. I doubt that I agree with any of you all the time, but I have found that your posts are sound and you are a wealth of knowledge. You are like a boy who is elected into the OA. Like him your primary duty is to your council, but in this forum you are doing all of Scouting a world of good. Please stay with us, YIS, paul

Hello, About twenty odd years ago,I finally came back full time to Scouting nearly two decades after I made Eagle. About the same time I married, started a family, and also became involved with the local track and field. I've always said this was because I owed what I am to three men. In the same order as the three affiliations I mentioned above: my former SM, my father, and my high school cross country coach. I tell you this so that you will know all there is to know about me, but all I know about you and your son is what I've read in this thread. Do not take any of what I am about to say personally. Just read it, reflect, and do what you think is right. Your son, not you, nor his SM, nor his troop will receive his Eagle. When he does, it will only be a "piece of paper", but it will stay with him for the rest of his life. After he receives it, don't teach him that he got what he was after, so now lets walk away. In an earlier post you mentioned making changes in the troop (not your words, my interpretation). That may be too rough a road, but if you choose it, good luck. Others, since your last post or two, have given you some other sound advice. Please reread them, reflect, and do what you think is best. Whatever you decide, remember, Scouts did not do this to you or your son. Certain individuals may have, but I am not going to go there. Before you do decide what you are going to do, have your own SMC with your son. Don't make it twenty minutes, make it a whole weekend, alone, doing what the two of you like to do together. And don't forget to ask him what scouts has done for him. YIS, paul

Hello, This is one of the best threads I've read. Makes me want to get off my duff and take my son back there. I can't imagine going to NYC, without at least considering a show. Unfortunately that is very expensive. It's been a long time since I've been there, and even standing on line gave me sticker shock. There are two (only two?) museums, which I don't think anybody has mentioned, and they be of some interest. I've been trying to find the exact names and locations, but without much luck. My memory doesn't seem to be the same these days. They say that is the second thing to go..., I can't remember the first thing. Anyway, there is a museum of tenement housing, and it seems the youth are really amased when the they see some of those everyday household immplements such as a washing machine and what's a ringer? And how did they get those (you called them 78's?) in the cd player? As I understand the museum is in an old tenement, and each floor is a different era. Also, there is a museum of radio/tv with just about every immaginable show on tape to be viewed or listened to. When I took my son there he was a cub, and I don't know how many times he replayed, Abbot and Costella's "whose on first". Just my two cents. Marty, have you ever been to Hadlock Field in Portland, Maine? Home of the Seadogs, and now a BoSox franchise. They even have a green monster! If you ever get up here, I'm always happy to show a fellow scouter around the real Portland. That goes for anyone, I just singled Marty out because of what he is doing with his son and the Seadogs' connection. YIS, paul

NWScouter gave a very succient rundown on O. A. elections. As somebody posted they are frequently run by the lodge/chapter in the early part of the year. This does not mean that you can't have a late election. When you talk to the lodge advisor, that should be one of your questions. I understand your feelings about the SM and his family. Even good people can do only so much. However, I would hope that they feel the same way toward you, and would not find it as hard to accept your suggestion to have an election as they did your offer to be an ASM. Before you ask him, though, make sure you can have one "at this late date". If the OA advisor says you will have to wait, plant the seed slowly, so that it will have time to grow, by the time the lodge is conducting their elections next winter. Somebody mentioned Roundtables. Frequently the chapters have their monthly meetings at the same time. This gives the youth transportation without creating an extra meeting for the adults. Or, if the youth are active in the chapter but the adults don't attend roundtable, it could help to spur them (the adults) to make use of a valuable tool. You might make use of the one youth member who is in the OA, and suggest that he be the troop's OA Unit Rep. This will the requirement of troop leadership for Star, Life, or Eagle. If the SM does not attend roundtables get him to attend at least one with you. Make sure it is the one when the lodge will be talking about what the OA is and how good it is. Make sure the lodge advisor knows that you plan to do this, and just happens to come by to say hello to you personally during the evening. At this time you could take the opportunity of introducing your SM of troop "ump-t-dump" to him. I am sure that before he takes his leave of two fellow scouters, he would casually say how he hopes to see you when you have your troop election. In the meantime, find out why those boys left the troop. If the answer is that they didn't like Sc ing, get them back, and in your son's patrol. By next year you will hopefully have more boys in the OA, and a year later, who knows, one of the SM's sons may be elected. Sorry, I tend to talk too much. Keep up the good work, YIS, paul

My son says that he is interested in trading csp's with you and any others who would like a Pine Tree Council CSP. He too is relatively new to this, and asked, if possible, could you e-mail a picture so he would know if he has one or not. As they say-- whatever! e-mail through me, paulec52@yahoo.com or send a csp c/o Paul E. Conley, box 8419, Portland, Me. 04104. For the Korea Scouter, he said he would like a Far East Council CSP. Thank You, PEC