kdhoogland

Thanks for all of the encouragement regarding our troop situation! To Mike Long: I was very glad to read your post...and to see that this situation can be turned around. I have found out that many of the leaders DO NOT have training. I have also found out that our council is having a training session in three weeks...and am encouraging them to attend. I do understand that the Scoutmaster is to be the advisor for the SPL. Unfortunately, this does not seem to be happening. My husband and I are quite willing to step forward and be leaders...this is why we have both taken training. The scoutmaster does seem to be more willing to accept our help. He DID take scoutmaster training at Philmont...so I am a bit confused as to why he is not following the program.

Yarrow said: "It seems inappropriate to use scouting as a school curriculum although I can understand the temptation." What is inappropriate about incorporating scouting in curriculum? I know many scouters/homeschoolers who have done this. My own family utilizes the many scouting resources in our homeschool. Each child has his/her math text, grammar book, and then we use scouting resources for the rest of our studies. Also, much of material that is taught in traditional schools can be applied to merit badges (in boy Scouts) and other achievements (within cub scouting). An example would be the studies of citizenship and government. "Does anyone remember Daniel E. Witte? Stunningly ambitious scout, bright, home schooled and extremely successful today. Earned all the merit badges." I have not heard of Daniel E. Witte...but he certainly sounds like a good role model for any scout. While I don't advocate a scout earning every merit badge, I applaud those who do.

"and since they boys (PLC) plan the program and schedule, its their fault if dates conflict in the first place." Our troop has only had ONE PLC in the last year. The boys are NOT planning the activities. The adults are. I had NO idea the boys were supposed to be doing PLC's until I attended Boy Scout Leader Training this past Spring. I have sat in on every committee meeting for the last 15 months (since our son joined this troop). There is never any input from the boys. When I question this, I am given confused stares. Short of switching troops, which my son does not want to do, how do we get our troop to do PLC's? The advice I was given at training was to start small...within a patrol. So that is what my husband (who is an Asst. Scoutmaster) and I have done. Since our SPL has NO idea how to lead, having never been taught, we are taking what was learned at training back to the scouts. The boys in my sons patrol are now planning their own patrol level activities. We have sought the help of the SPL and ASPL, even though they don't really know what they're supposed to do (they have never had any training). Over the last three months, the other patrols and the leaders have noticed the guys in my sons patrol having fun and earning ranks. Until the BOYS are actually running this troop, I don't see the BOYS having any influence on the schedule. Hopefully, this situation will continue to turn around. It is frustrating that this unit does not follow the program. If the boys have not been taught how to follow the program, through use of PLC's and such, then they are not really a boy led troop, right?

JMC--the adult Patrol Advisors are usually registered as an Asst. Scoutmaster or Committee member. Our troop has 52 scouts, with 8 patrols. The use of Patrol Advisors is prevalent in the troops in our District (as well as Council). It is NOT like that of a Den Leader...we don't plan activities for the boys, we give guidance (something that is especially helpful with new scouts). Each patrol does have at least one advisor. In the patrol my husband and I advise, the boys have been in the troop since Feb. of last year. We have been the ones providing things to the boys that they cannot: mainly transportation. The boys plan their activities, determining where they need to go (as far as the scouting program) and how they can best get there. The shoot around ideas as a patrol, and then they seek council from the SPL and other patrol leaders. The advisor is definitely not like a den leader...the advisor is there as an adult support, not as a planner. (It is a much easier job than a den leader!! And I have been a den leader...still am...in Cub Scouts for over 6 years!)

About 1/2 of the 50 boys in our troop are in sports. The other 1/2 are not. The one thing I resent about the kids so involved in sports: all of the troop activities are planned around THEIR sports activities. I do not think this is fair to the other 1/2 who are not in sports. I can see accomodating the sports playing scouts SOME of the time...but the troop schedule shound not always have to revolve around these particular scouts. I think some troop activities could be planned...and if it coincides with a sports event...the scout will have to choose. I do not think it is right to have the kids who are in sports making the troop schedule!

My husband and I are advisors for one patrol. We try to make sure they have a patrol meeting or outing once a month AWAY from the rest of the troop. This has really helped in making the patrol more cohesive. We have noticed a big difference in their teamwork on troop outings/meetings since we have pulled them together as a smaller group once a month or so.

Paul: You said: "IF the boys are being counseled by registered MB counselors, doing all the work, and learning the material, don't worry about the other leaders. If your school district allows you to use the MB items in your curricula, good. Keep up the good work. " Yes, all the boys in the troop, regardless of where they attend school, only work with registered MB counselors. Regarding the school district here (in Illinois), it has NO involvement in my homeschool. In Illinois, and in several other states as well, homeschools are considered private schools. We are not required to have any school district approve our "curriculum". Congrats on being named Cub Leader of the Year...it is a great honor to earn that award. Both my husband and I have earned that several times as well. Like you, we have been den leaders for several years (hubby was also Cubmaster for four years...just stepped down to Asst. Cubmaster). I currently am a Webelos Leader. In our area, Chicago Area Council, I am helping to set up a position of homeschool liason...someone to help Council figure out what to do with homeschoolers who are in scouts...what their needs are (especially if there are learning disabilities that need to be addressed...we have several families in our local homeschool group who are now joining scout units, and they homeschool primarily to address the individual needs of the boy with learning problems). SOME of the requirements need to be modified for homeschoolers (off the top of my head, the Scholar badge for Webelos has to be adjusted a bit...the outline of a homeschool is pretty different from a public/private school in terms of who is "principal", "administrator", etc). You said: "The homeschoolers here GENERALLY meet with each other once a month. One of the mothers was very rude to the new den leader for daring to PHONE her to let her know about a scout activity - it took too much time away from her kids, and the only contact she wanted was via e-mail, which the new leader did not have! " Sounds like you have had some experience with homeschoolers...and learned what I have learned: there are rude parents everywhere...not just of public/private schooled kids, but also of homeschooled kids. I have not had any bad experiences with rude parents of homeschoolers in my Cub Pack because we are the ONLY family that homeschools in our Cub Pack. But you can bet I have had parents become rude and irritated when I have phoned for some reason or another. I know several folks in our Cub Pack that prefer to be notified by email, rather than a phone call. Regarding the Tigers learning to "socialize"...I think it is pretty rare for most homeschoolers to keep away from other families/kids, etc. I HAVE run into two families who pretty much keep to themselves...this is not something that I have ever chosen to do for my boys. I think it is important for kids to be out in the world...both with their families and with other kids. Most of the homeschoolers in the group I belong to (over 100 families), are of the same opinion. Can you tell me more about the District Curriculum Coordinating Council? Is this something to do with BSA? or is it a school thing? Thanks, Karen

"We now have female adult volunteers regularly elected to the OA. However, for a youth member of scouting to be elected to OA, they must have earned the rank of First Class." We have male adult leaders who are regularly elected to OA and were never scouts either.

"When you say that merit badges are used for their primary "curriculum", is this in regards to their home schooling???" Yes! And this topic was discussed at GREAT lenghth last September, at Philmont, during the conference "Scouting for the Homeschooled". The majority of the scouters/parents who attended are using scouting resources in their homeschools. "Either way, there are "checks and balances" in the Scouting advancement program. " As a trained leader, I make sure ALL the scouts which are in my patrol understand the protocol for merit badge work. Our scoutmaster allows the scouts to work on no more than three merit badges at one time. "It DOES sound like too many merit badges in too short of a period." In the case of my son, he has earned 16 merit badges in fifteen months. 3 were earned last year at summer camp. 3 others were earned in merit badge clinics which I set up for the ENTIRE troop to participate in. He has done 10 merit badges on his own over the last FIFTEEN months. I do not think this is excessive. "Are all of the merit badge counselors registered and approved for teaching each of these merit badges? " Yes they are...and all but 2 of the merit badges have been counseled by approved counselors OUTSIDE of troop leaders. "Scoutmaster Conferences and Boards of Reviews, are great places to discuss each Scout's advancement, and ensure that all appropriate policies (Troop, Council, and National) are being followed." I agree with you 100%. I also think these are intended to discuss each individual scout's advancement...and one scout should not be compared to another. "If merit badges are being used as part of the home schooling primary curriculum, I can see how other Scouts may see an unfair advantage when THEY have to work merit badge programs into their busy lives OUTSIDE of their school work, activities, and family responsibilities." While I cannot speak for other homeschoolers, I do know that my son has similar responsibilities and obligations to other youth who are in traditional schools. No, he is not in a traditional school for 6 hours a day, but he IS busy. His "school", outside of scouting work, takes about 2 hours each day (he uses a regular math text and a grammar book). He does community services three days a week. Everyone has the same 24 hours a day...he chooses to spend much of his free time on scouting activities. By his choice, he does not sit in front of a TV for hours each day. I don't think this is an unfair advantage. By the way, none of the other scouts have complained that he has earned too many merit badges...just some of the leaders. (and there are other scouts with a like number of merit badges...and they go to a traditional school). The problem I see is that most of the scouts are involved in TOO MANY activities. My son is involved in scouts and in a homemade-band with some of his friends. He isn't juggled baseball, soccer, wresting, and scouting at once.

Regarding Paul with 2 homeschooled Tigers having "some difficulty initially adapting to the social setting of multiple boys and parents, however it did not take them long to be active in the den." In general, the Tigers that have come through my Pack (I have been an active Cub Scout leader for 7 years, Boy Scout leader for almost 2), usually take a while to adapt to multiple boys and parents...that is a developmental issue, regardless of where the kids are educated. We have only been homeschooling for 2 1/2 years. Both of my older boys were in a public school when they started scouting. Just wondering...how much do you know about homeschoolers? In our area, there seems to be a prevailing attitude that homeschooling parents keep their kids in the home all day, away from other kids and adults. Not true here...we belong to an extensive group of homeschoolers...meeting with 10-50 other families several days a week (Tuesday is an "at home" day).

The reason why I was asking about other scouts who homeschool is this: my oldest son (he is 12, just finishing his First Class requirements) is one of four boys (out of 50) in our troop that homeschool. All four families utilize the scouting program. The problem we are running into is that some of the other leaders think these boys are doing "too many" merit badges. My son is working on his 16th (in a year and a half). Another boy just finished his 24th. We have tried explaining that the boys are doing Merit Badges as their primary "curriculum"...but one of the leaders is under the impression that the parents are pushing the boys. (The only merit badge we have made "mandatory" for our son is Family Life). I am wondering how other units handle this situation.

Is anyone here in a unit with scouts who are homeschooled? Our sons are all homeschooled (two in Cub Scouts and one in Boy Scouts).