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It appears that since the last Troop Committee meeting that I no longer have the confidence of its members. Not sure exactly why, but that is what I got out of things. It seems that I have offended those members whose boys are part of the troop junior leadership and have also been the root of most of the problems in the troop concerning the lack of teamwork, unacceptable personal interaction between the boys in the troop, and thier refusal to accept any of the responsibility in thier junior leadership rolls in the troop. So, I have offered my resignation and it was accepted by the majority of the troop committee. Since I live in a small town, with only this one troop, and I do not wish to travel, I am also leaving scouting. There will come a time in the future when I will once again take up scouting, but until then I want to thank you all for your input and support and let you know that I appreciate each of you.

I agree with all, but oust the mother and suspend the boy. If he wishes to return, the let it be without mom, otherwise, he doesn't return. As far as the form letter, the first written can (and usually does in our troop) become the "form" for all subsequent letters of the same nature. None of us like to do things more than once.

ASM7, Thanks, I did get to the website. I brought up the idea at the TC meeting and they thought it was a great idea. The CC even said he knew a couple of ladies (and gentlemen) that would be willing to help us out with this. Rooster7, I also like your rewrite of the rules too. I have not had the time yet to put my imagination to it, but I think there are a lot of good ideas coming out of this.

It was suggested earlier that this could possibly be an eagle requirement, but that was all, no discussion. And I agree that ASM7's troop has a good approach, but I disagree that it could or should be considered strictly "military." Dinner parties and gatherings have been going on outside the military since who knows when and proper behavior and manners were expected of those participants just the same. The military just put it in writing and made this part of their program. I see nothing wrong with taking this program from the military and reworking it to fit our situation by removing the particularly military aspects from it. I don't think that a boy of any age would like to be looked down upon as the ill mannered heathen, in fact, with proper reinforcement from the adults (a pat on the back), I think the boy may even begin looking for the proper ettiquette to display in any given situation. Once again, we have pretty much isolated this discussion to meal time and that is fine, but please remember that there are other times and places where proper ettiquette needs to be used. Just spent a week in camp with 4 other troops. I don't mind the boys calling me by my first name. But I found it refreshing and I admired the boys who, when they knew my first name and that they could use it, still called me Mr. Germann. Their parents are doing a great job!

Bob White Glad to hear you are all well. What a vacation! Wow, 18 days. The last time I was off work that long, I was looking for a job! By the way, I may not have caught that if we hadn't discussed it a bit earlier in the thread. It just seems to me that if BSA thought it was important enough to create a merit badge for one thing (Family Life) that should be taught in the home (and obviously hasn't been), then maybe they should take a look at this one. I thnk we all agree that proper ettiquette is important, we all just have different ideas (and some darned good ones at that) about where it should be taught. ASM7's troop has a good program established, I hope he can help me out so I can get one started in my troop. I wish more of us had some type of established part of our program on this subject that we could share.

ASM7 Wonderful aproach. I will check out the website. Pretty much just the thing I was looking for. Thanks for your post! You wouldn't happen to have this ettiquette class written down where you could email it to me would you?(This message has been edited by scoutmaster424)

I see it, but I don't know if it makes it right. I have no idea what the BSA policy was on this issue at the time of those drawings and photos. According to todays insignia guide as Fscouter quotes, some of these are acceptible and some are not. I am not changing my position, but I think I will bring this up at the troop committee meeting tonight and see what they have to say about the issue.

Hey, Bob White, Does the Family Life Merit Badges expose the boy to a hobby, career or recreational activity? Seems to me it deals with life skills. Haven't seen you post lately, hope everything is well with you.(This message has been edited by scoutmaster424)

Yeah, but I guess you could put the boys in an environment where they would have fun, but the parent might have reservations about thier son being there. Even at a place like a Boy Scout Summer Camp. One of the complaints from a few parents on parents night was the rudeness of the lady at the front desk when they came in. One parent said that if she had let that first impression guide her, her son would have gone home with her. So it doesn't take much for people to think something is unsuatable for thier child.

Don't have a bible handy, but weren't the letters to Corinthia written after the time of Christ? And don't you have to know the author's definition of short? Way off the subject now!(This message has been edited by scoutmaster424)

I was told the reason for Family night is so the parents see the camp and to make them feel they want to send their son there next year. I think the best I've seen is the camp had family night on Friday. They were invited for dinner ($6 seemed steep for a piece of chicken or two andsome mashed potatoes and salad.), a tour of the camp and closing campfire. At closing campfire the troops paraded into the ampetheater(?) with the Troop being announced along with SM and SPL. Each troop that was performing skits, etc did their thing and the parents were there to see. If homesickness overtook the boys then, they could just pack up and go home with mom & dad (with the promise they would show up the next afternoon to help unload and stow the troop gear, of course). All they were going to do was sleep, pack up and leave the next morning anyway. If I had to vote for what night parents night should be and I couldn't pick none, then I'd pick Friday. Camp Friedlander had it on Wednesday, disruptive, fostered homesickness in the middle of the week,

Eagle74 - I can see why you are proud of the facility. It looks great and was run well for their first year. Do we know each other? Maybe I will see you at Peterloon!

Acco40 Don't know that I can disagree with what you said nor do I think I want to. As I recall, the MCJROTC wear their hats everywhere. I've never seen them in church. Except to say that I was brought up that men uncover in church and women do not (except in a synagogue and I have no experience there). I admit, I don't have all the answers to this one. But I think as time permits, I will persue it a bit further. I have yet to hear from the Lt. Col. in charge of the MCJROTC at the High School.

acco40, I like it when you play this way! Since being in an arena such as this would pose a unique set of circumstances, I would first have to consult Emily Post (but let's not go there). And since you are presenting me the scenario of the hats being requested worn, I would first have to ask the promoter his opinion (but that shouldn't matter). And since the color guard would more than likely start out in the tunnel (indoors), and I would want to do it "by the book," My first thought would be to have them not wear their hats. But I have seen this at a hockey game in the Firstar Center (now the US Bank Arena) and they did wear their hats and it was definitely indoors. The regulation in the isignia guide says that hats can be worn. A lot of these posts (as my own) say no way. I have also seen the local ROTC color guard at indoor events, but for the life of me, I can't remember if they had their hats on or off. But after looking at a picture of the stadium, i would have to say yes to indoors and no to hats. I would have to have a compelling reason to change my opinion. But let's face it, This is a good scenario, but I won't hold my breath waiting for anything like it to happen to us. I do need to brush up on my color guard ettiquette (there is that word again) and then write a few exceptions to the rule. Like how to handle things when the color guard enters a building (or leaves). It makes my head hurt just to think about all the possibilities. I think I will have to refer to my sources (military and non) and get back with you on this. This is very interesting!

Left for Summer Camp at Camp Friedlander last Sunday (one hour from home). Everyone fine, busy fisrts day at camp. Weather was hot and humid (heat ndex over 100 for 2 1/2 days). At about 2AM Monday morning, I had a scout (15 years old and the oldest in the troop) crying that he couldn't sleep and his stomach hurt. I told him I would take him to the medical lodge, wake up the medics, and have him checked out. He refused. I told him to just go back to his tent and try to go to sleep that with the heat and humidity everyone was having trouble sleeping. He did. His tentmate told me he cryed for about another hour. The next morning he was up, went to breakfast, merit badge sessions, etc. and told me that he was fine. At 9PM on Monday, he was back for the same reason. I spoke to the other leaders in the camp and we agreed that I should call his mother. So I did. She went on and on about how his asthma is so bad along with his "other" lung problems that she was worried how he would handle the high heat and humidity because he can't breath well when that happens. She also asked if his stomach was hurting. She told me she had his medicine at home and said he should probably come home. I asked why we didn't have it and why it wasn't on his medical form. She didn't know why. Shen spoke with him and he packed up to leave. As he did so, I retrieved my copy of his medical form and all it said was that he had asthma and should have an emergency inhailer with him and that he has upset stomachs with no mention of medication. When the medic asked about the inhailer at the Sunday evening med check, he said he didn't use it anymore. He showed no signs of having trouble breathing and definitly was in no distress. And the medics had plenty of over the counter remidies for upset stomachs. So what it boiled down to was that he was homesick and spoiled to boot. His mother said she would bring him back the next day after the front came through that would cool things down a bit. They didn't show up. She also told the other leaders wife (that came for family night) that she was bringing him for family night and leaving him there. They didn't show up. This incident opened the flood gates. I had another boy ask if I had anyone go home from camp early because of homesickness. I said not yet, but give it an hour. I also reminded him that he couldn't go home because he gave his dad such a huge amount of lip service that he wouldn't be homesick and that he needed the vacation from dad. He agreed taht he should stickit out and got extra busy, the other scouts in camp jumped in to help too. Then the next day, a third boy wanted to call his mother. He wanted to ask her to come to parents night (she told him she wasn't when we left). Then my son said he wanted to go home (he lives with his mother), but he knew he couldn't do that. By Wednesday, the fifth wanted to go home too. That left my girlfriend's son. I was proud of him. Not once did he show any sign of homesockness, not even when he found out I was speaking to his mother on the cell phone (he did ask me to ask her to bring more underwear when she came for parents night, then ran off). Adn he only cryed for about 10 seconds when she left on family night. I didn't have any of these problems last year with these boys, but we were 3 1/2 hours away. I think we will choose camps at least 2 hours away from now on.