kb6jra

Come to think of it, most of our recent years Camporees have been a bit...moist. I guess that's good since I'm in Southern California and we need all the moisture we can get. The Camporee we had this last time was scheduled to begin at 8:00 PM on Friday night with some night time activities. Unfortunately they held the event 35 miles from home with no other way to get to it except in total gridlock on the freeway system. Live and learn.

"Toad Choker"...LOL! I gotta use that one.

Best moment...well, I don't know if this classifies as best, but it's a good story anyway. I attended the 1977 NSJ at Moraine St. Park, PA. We re-named the place More Rain, since it rained, torrentially, for 5 of the 7 days we were there. I may be exagerating the days, but it was quite an experience to say the least. I had a fantastic time and will always remember this event as being a defining time in my life. I made friends that I will always remember and this is where my story starts. One of the members of our troop was at that time the JASM. This was the first time a Jambo troop was required to have a Jr. Asst. SM. this young man had to compete for the job against 4 other young adults, including the contingent SM's own son. He was given the job and as you might imagine, the SM was not a big fan. The JASM had one friend in the adult leadership, the 1st ASM. The SM and the 2nd ASM never talked to him and treated him badly (we boys never saw this, but he told me this a few years back). The 1st ASM treated him with respect and kindness, included him in all the communications and activities, and to this day they are very close friends. The young man that was the JASM is now our Council Commisioner, among other things, and is still the same person that went to the Jambo in 77. Last Wednesday night I attended a dinner to honor the current course director of our Wood Badge course, WE4-45-1-07. I'm not sure how other councils do this, but our council has a dinner to award the new Course Director (Scoutmaster) his 4th bead. They invite all previous course directors they know, regardless of council affiliation, to be guests. One of the 4 beaders that showed up was the 1st ASM of my Jambo troop. It was the first time I'd seen him since 1977. He had gray hair, but otherwise looked the same. I noticed him and introduced myself. We had a chance to chat for about 30 minutes, and it brought back so many wonderful memories for him and me. I hope to run into him again some day, he is truley a gem. Matt 1977 NSJ participant 2005 NSJ staff, Arts and Sciences Expo.

Good Deal Tom, I staffed my first adult event right after Wood Badge 4 years ago, it was one of my ticket items. I've been involved with training ever since. It's one of the things I consider to be my fun items. I've never had a bad time...ever. There are always a few kinks in the chain, but that's a part of team development and training that I take on as a challenge. When I grow up I want to be a Boy Scout Trainer... I would say that if you're ever asked to be a member of a Wood Badge staff, take it. You will have a similar experience, only ten fold. I just had my first Wood Badge weekend as a staff member and I'm thoroughly exhausted, in a good way. I know that I gave the participants every thing I had and then some. I can't wait for the second weekend. My wife thinks I'm nuts, she may be right come to think of it.

"...our role is to be there for the Scout and sadly if he or she does decide that they can no longer take the Scout Oath, they do need to quit. I'm happy to leave that decision to the Scout." Thank you Eamonn, this articulates what I was attempting to espouse earlier. Kinda boils it down for me. I work to instill a sense of ethics and a means to support and teach our scouts to become citizens of good character. By definition I cannot always be successful, sometimes I have to only a percentage of success. By stating that, it doesn't mean I have to like it that way, but I shouldn't consider what I do a failure either.

Well, since there would be a Plethora of staffers, how about one line at a time... Since I'm probably the newest staffer, just came back from my first weekend of WE4-45-1-07, I'll get 'er started. "I used to be a Staffer... Matt WE4-51-2-03 Bear WE4-45-1-07 Beaver Troop Guide

No offense intended, but what was asked for here was opinion. If an opinion is asked for with regards to the original topic, and an opinion is given, then there is no reason to point fingers, pin labels, tout that "my opinion is better than your opinion..." One thing we do definately teach the boys in Scouting is that every one is entitled to their opinion, and courtesy, friendliness, helpfulness, kindness, and cheerfulness all apply in allowing those opinions to be expressed openly and honestly.

Robert, my thoughts and prayers for you and your family at this time. It's been stated before, but a positive fighting attitude towards this disease will be beneficial to you and your family. Don't take it lying down! Your dedication to your son and to scouting is admirable. You need to make sure your son understands how you feel. He may be thinking that he's doing the right thing by being with you more instead of attending troop activities. That's the way I'd think anyway. Give him the green light to attend meetings and outings. Let him know how you feel about the program and how proud you are of him. Also as said before, take care of your self and your needs then slip back into the program in a way that fits your abilities at the time. Our CC had a stroke a year ago. Actuall two. He was sidelined until about a month ago and is taking on a less active roll in the committee. We're happy to have him back and happy to adjust to his needs. Every bit of help is needed and appreciated in my unit, and I'm sure your unit is no different. Take what responsibility you can when you can and give what you can give. Nobody can do more than that most assuridly. Good luck with your illnesses, listen to your doctors, be positive and Fight On!

Whew! Thought my turn would never get here. I used to be a BEAR, and a good 'ol BEAR too. But now I've finished BEARING, I don't know what to do. I'm growing old and feeble, and I can BEAR no more, So I'm going to work my ticket if I can! Back to Gilwell, Happy Land, I'm going to work my ticket if I can! C'mon Buffs Matt WE4-51-2-03

Wow, lot's of ideas and opinions...in fact too many to wade through in a single morning. Good question by the way, so many responses... My opinion. We as adult leaders are chared with giving our youth a solid foundation with which to make ethical and moral choices, based on the values that are espoused by the Scout Oath and Law, Motto, Slogan, Outdoor Code... When a scout deviates from these values, and I'd venture to say that 100% of scouts deviate from these values at some point in their lives, it's our "job" to help them see the errors of their ways and make amends...do the right thing. I don't think this changes when we're talking about hiding a bad report card from parents, telling a lie, fighting, swearing, etc. We're talking about human behavior and making mistakes. All human's make mistakes, it's a fact of life. "Let him that is without sin cast the first stone...". Good words to live by, eh? Some of the character traits we need to instill in our youth, right next to responsible parenting, abstenance, and the like, are forgiveness and understanding. I would not be in favor of the BSA making a policy with regards to fathering a child as a scout. I think they/we need to stand on the foundation we've laid over the last 100 years, the Scout Oath and Law. IMO the CO who "owns" the unit should make such restrictions. This is a good practice and makes sense. If a boy makes a mistake, fathering a child or whatever, that shouldn't preclude him from ever advancing in the future. Again, my opinion.

My troop is under 30 at the moment so all I have to offer is the info I got from a fellow Scoutmaster. We've got some very large units nearby, and I'm relativly good friends with most of the SM's in my district. One unit had at one time about 150 members, which meant about 80-90 active at any one time. The Scoutmaster was telling me that when a troop hits a certain number, 75 or so, you have to keep feeding it new blood or it will wither and die. His words, not mine. It seemed he spent more time recruiting than more important things, like program and training... My idea of a perfect troop is about 40. That's plenty IMO. With 50 boys you could have a healthy troop and a healthy Venturing Crew. That would be fun... Good luck

Hey, that's not Gilwell order...for the love of BEARS! I'll wait my turn...

lisabob, Our troop asks all boys to attend, our CO (Rotary club) reimburses $50 / boy upon successful completion. The new course is 5 "ticket" items, the old course had 12. The total cost in our council is $205, and 50 bux doesn't sound like much, but a $50 rebate is better than a sharp stick in the eye. That coupled with a summer camp bill of $365 this year, and another $150 for our high adventure trip makes for a very expensive summer.

In my own defense... The boy I had issues with "this time" had so over committed himself to epic proportions. He heard from someone who heard from someone who talked to a guidance councelor that competitive college applicants who show other interests besides academics are preffered over those that concentrate solely on grades. With this dangerous amount of info this young man not only tried out for every sport...I'm not kidding, every single sport, he signed up for at least 8 clubs on campus, most of which he had no business joining... It was just incredible. I also believe in a solid program to draw the kids back every week. It's not an easy job by any strech of the imagination, which is why we have a minimum performance expectation for those taking on key jobs within the unit, to ensure there is a solid program. I suppose in the end all of us would do almost anything to get them there and keep them there. I don't think it would be possible or realistic for National to define a performance standard as it pertains to attendance and participation, however IMO they should stipulate that to the individual units. Let's face it, if a boy joins a troop and cannot meet the standard set there, 99.9% of the time there is another troop just around the corner who's standards he can meet. Of course arguing that in my head brings up some other points as well, so I'll just quit while I'm behind...

dluders, You've gotten great advice and lots of very accurate and useful info. My only addition would be what I've experienced. I had a similar situation with a scout who burned bright for many years and dimmed quite a bit in the attendance department after about 1 year of being a Life Scout. He was very active, hyper active in fact up until that time. He then got busy with school and socializing. When he came back to work on Eagle, we had some issues, much like what you're going through. Our troop has a policy that wants to see roughly 70% participation in troop meetings, outings and activities. We call it the 80% rule, but it's closer to 70%. It's completely un-enforceable as it pertains to advancement, unless you are talking about the fulfillment of the Position of Responsibility and minimum requirements to fulfill those positions. You'll find that whole argument on another few hundred threads here without much searching. I decided to have a couple of SM Conferences with the young man and explained my concerns dealing with his obvious disconnect with the troop and lack of leadership. After our talk, he made every effort to re-enter the troop as a JASM, become active as much as he could, and promised to give me and the troop 6 honest months after his Eagle Board of Review. That was 18 months ago and he still stops by to help when his college schedule permits. If you're having issues with the Father, sorry to hear that, but you should be talking with the scout about these issues and not the parents. They may be committee members but the scout is the one you're mentoring. If he's only 15, he's got lots of good opportunities to give a hand in leading the troop in the future. Give him the opportunity to be that leader and give him a job he can get his teeth into. You may be surprised at what you latch on to. If the father wants to take exception to what you and his son agree to, have him take it up with the committee -- it's not your deal to stand toe to toe with a parent, you should have your committee on your side for these matters. Good luck and by the way, I wouldn't abandon any attendance policies to easily, I'd just explain your expectations to the boys in the troop and give them the opportunity to fulfill those expectations as best they can.

Aloha! It sounds like you're just starting your Scouting career. Congratulations on completing your ticket, it's a great feeling isn't it? Why not have your beading at your Roundtable, you're really going to be supprised to see how many other adults that attend Roundtable are WB'ers. So what that you've only attended a few Roundtables...nobody's counting by the way, the only time you're going to count RT attendance is part of a few leadership awards. Your RT Commish will welcome you every time you attend, or at least they should. RT is a great place...or your Pack Meeting. Think of the admiration and wonder from the boys at the Pack Meeting. "Why is Mrs. Aloha getting such a great ceremony." Part of getting your beads is, In my opinion, promoting Wood Badge to new scouters and new adults. This really is a training that everyone could use, so why not flaunt it a bit. So, I typed that to say this, it's about time the boys in your pack know who you are. They may not exactly know what you do for them, but they'll figure out you're someone special all the same when you get your neckerchief, woggle and beads. Same goes for the RT attendees. I'd venture to say that there are few who attend every meeting, and a beading will really get the place jazzed up. Spread that WB Spirit to those around you. It's bound to catch on...

Well, if you're changing the guard, you do have that to look forward to. Be supportive and keep up your good works, it will all turn out for the better. Good luck

NYLT, as it's called now, has been done in my area since the 70's It was, and is still called, Buckskin NYLT. They use the new syllabus and there was a graduation commitment from last year. It pretty light as I remember there were 12 or 13 in the old course. This year our council will put on 2 full courses consecutively. One is full and the other is 2/3 full. That means two full staffs as well. I don't know why we have such a great turn out or staff commitment, but it's always been the culture of this council to revere those boys that have been through the program. Maybe it's the two presenations at RT each year. Maybe it's the abundant flyers or the missing info on the website...(speaking about my own council). Maybe you need to sell the Scoutmasters on the idea that their troops will run much better if they get their leaders trained right. I think that's why I insist my boys participate...I'm sending 4 boys this year at least, maybe 6. We've sent 9 before, that was a lot of work. Every boy in my unit 1st class and above, 13 yo or older attends. There's just no question. I solicit 1/2 scholarships for those finishing the course (little work to do afterwards) which gets mom and dad happy and involved. Sell the Scoutmaster, sell the program I say.(This message has been edited by kb6jra)

When I was CM, at one point we had a policy that you were paid up on your fees before your son got his patches. That worked as long as you had someone willing to be the bookeeper. I have that same policy in my troop, but my treasurer is not affraid to walk up to you and say you owe money. We have one family that refuses to give up the $$ and quite honestly if they're not willing to pay the $27 a year with boys life, then what's the point. Camperships are available but you have to meet me half way.

I'd put a bug in the ear of the new unit's CC that money talks with this guy. I've had this type of family in the unit and it never amounts to much more than unpaid bills in my experience. Don't front anything is my advice from this point forward. Good luck.

Lisabob, when boys joke with each other, that's one thing, but bullying can rear it's ugly head, and it appears to have done so in this case. The culture this is bringing to your unit is not acceptable and you need to get a handle on it. Scouting is a safe haven, no boy should feel abused in any way, shape or form when attending a scouting activity. While we are not a "feel good" organization, we do have certain expectations. If you have certain members that are behaving badly, they need a SM conference immediately to instruct them the behavior is not acceptable. Personally I'll have the first talk with the boys. If this don't take they get a second one and then have a word with mom and dad. It usually doesn't go any farther than that. The bullies we've had in our unit have learned it away from the troop...it came from home. The parents weren't abuse. They were not respectful to those around them. They would positively reinforce the wrong behavior "you sure showed him tonight son, he won't forget that punch in the arm soon". They denied every instance where the boys were acting inappropriately. Basically, they never got it, until one of them was asked to leave the troop, then they became victims. Don't let it go on. Nip it in the bud. Change the culture of the troop to one of Scout Spirit and Patrol cooperation. I feel very passionate about this subject because I've live through it. Now that the bullies are gone from our unit, we are so much better off. Good luck

Holy Hannah Beavah, you're killin me! You're doing more thread spinning than a daddy long legs. ) And for the love of God everyone else, keep your posts below 1000 words (hello kettle, this is the pot, you're black!) I guess it's because we're all so full of...scouting that we can't hold back, hmm? I started using the rotating PL in the NSP this last year. I had 12 new boys, tried splitting them into two smaller patrols, didn't work, put them back together, works better. Asked them to elect a PL, asked PL to appoint a successor, rotated on a monthly basis. Every one of them got a chance to experience the job for a month. That coupled with providing a TG and ASM/PA seems to have gone well. Now that they're in their second year, they're doing well with the program (based on past history) and understand how to BE a patrol.

Unit Leader elections SPL - elected to 6 month term. Must meet minimum troop requirements with reguards to rank, pre requisite POR, and training. Must be approved by SM ASPL - Appointed by SPL with advise/consent of SM. Must meet minimum troop requirements with reguards to rank, pre-requisite POR, and training. PL - elected to 6 month term. Must meet minimum troop requirements with reguards to rank, pre-requisite POR, and training. Must be approved by SM and SPL APL- appointed by PL. Must meet minimum troop requirements with reguards to rank and training. We have our elections coming up in 2 weeks. We have 6 month terms to allow for all youth to experience the joys of leadership. Most are very happy to pass the torch, we make them do their jobs (ha!) The SM typically askes the current SPL to read the requirements for the JOB of SPL, ASPL, PL and APL. He assures that everyone understands how the election/appointment is done. At that time, the SM is asked to make any recommendations (the fix is in). If there are youth that need to serve in a specific POR, such as SPL (we want every prospective Eagle to have served as SPL for a term) the SM's recommendation carries a huge amount of weight. If there are multiple eligible youth, they are polled verbally if they would accept the position and perform the duties. Yes = enter election, No = decline to enter election. If there's a youth that doesn't quite get the program and needs some help with his leadership skills, he's not recommended (has happened). If he's voted into office anyway, he's asked to take the roll of ASPL for the term with another more qualified youth, and follow him into office the next time with the recommendation of the SM. Troop POR's (Scribe, quartermaster, grubmaster, etc) are appointed for the 6 mo term by the SPL, with concurrance of ASPL and advise/consent of SM. Patrol POR's (same as above at patrol level) are appointed by PL for 6 mo term with concurrance of APL, and advise /consent of SPL and SM. the weeks following the elections we try and have a training workshop to instruct the new leaders how the troop should run. We use adults and youth leaders to run the workshop.

Beavah and AJ, I think you're absolutely right about the personal relationships. I treat nearly all my boys as my own. I attend their sports events if I have time, I ask about their pets, know their parents and siblings...I worm into their families. It's not only a great social thing for me, but it produces great results as it pertains to behavior, teamwork, advancement...all those scout things we love so well. Notice I state "I treat nearly all my boys as my own." Some boys are not so approachable, and some are so jaded by previous interactions with adults that they are skittish. I've got a new ASM that needed a SM Conference so I could tell him that you draw more bees with honey than with vinegar. The boys hated him until that conversation, now they think he's pretty cool and will do whatever he asks.

IMHO, reaching out to youth other than through scouting is an individual effort. My personal belief is that I can make a difference in my boys in my troop. I can also make a difference to youth in other ways. Here's what I personally do to make a difference. Beyond Scouting, I help recognize youth volunteers as part of an award program put on by our local US Congressman. Several of us community folks gather each year for two or three afternoons and interview High School aged kids/young adults with an eye to recognizing their volunteer efforts. It's nice to say that most of the young men interviewed are Eagle Scouts, or close to earning Eagle, and that most of the young ladies are Gold Awardees in Girl Scouts. I also help staff our local Rotary District's RYLA (Rotary Youth Leadership Awards), a weekend leadership and team building camp for 16-17 yo young adults. It's a great weekend and well worth the investment of MY time. I just did this for the first time this year and am using some of the techniques with our boys in ethical decisions and diversity. Great stuff. Yes this gets me into some hot water with the wife, so I pay through the nose to do this "other stuff", but it's well worth the price of admission for me. As far as reaching out with Scouting, this is what I see working. Eagle projects in the public eye are great advertisements for the program of course. Representing our local Scouting in flag ceremonies, parades, honor guards, etc. we can reach out to un-tapped youth in our communities. We also guarner support of Scouting with this positive re-inforcement in those public activities we participate in, helping associate Scouting with those Timeless Values we love to talk about. Quite frankly this also help the dollars keep rolling into our local councils by positive PR. There are always costs with any community service, it just depends on how well suited you are to "pay" for it.