Kaji

Well, ok, technically not true. I have two of the old green ones from the late 1970s, but they're both thin and have short sleeves, something I've never liked in a uniform. What I DID get today, however, was an old long-sleeved shirt from about 1960 that's in great shape, and a set of pants that matched it. Since I happened to have the proper insignia to do up the shirt to match my current one appropriate to the era in which it came from (including Salem, W.VA. community and state strips and a felt troop number), I decided to go ahead and do so to see how it worked out. While the color looks a bit sickly when you look at it on its own, it's kind of grown on me once I've seen how it looks while being worn. Overall I'm starting to see why people like this one better than the current shirt, and am considering continuing to use it here and there, since under the BSA guidelines there's no rule saying I can't (that I'm aware of), so long as I wear the appropriate pants to go with it. Only thing I really missed from my other shirt is the epaulets, frankly.

http://www.mninter.net/~blkeagle/smallbig.htm 2nd to the last paragraph is what you'll find of interest, I think. Basically, assuming that the information is still accurate, you can give the supply shop your measurements and they'll have your uniform tailored to fit. No more having to buy a shirt that fits the shoulders but not the bust, or vice versa. Pants can be tailored likewise.

Amen on the sewing thing, man! My mom sewed all of two merit badges on for me when I became a boy scout and that was it, even sewed my scout badge on myself. Think the only other time after Cub Scouts that someone did any sewing for me was when my aunt switched my patches to my new shirt when I hit first class for me. My scoutmaster was always of the view that now that the boy's in Boy Scouts he should be learning to be self-sufficient, and sewing was just another way of becoming such...hehehe...

Up to six months after they turn 18 you can hold the board if everything else (workbook included) was done befor their 18th birthday. After 6 months, a petition needs to be placed with National to be able to hold the board, with an explanation for the delay (which to my understanding, unless you got called up for military duty right when you turned 18 or something like that, they'll generally turn down...). Amusing the things we found out when my little brother decided to literally finish his eagle in the 11th hour...

Reviving an old thread, I know, but I just thought I'd throw in my 2. From what I've seen, if you want an original handbook, it's going to run $5-600. Saw a mint condition original Eagle patch sell for $560 (standard background, so it'd be even more if it were one of the sea scouting variants...). Most expensive I'd seen prior to that $13,000 patch above was $1,600 for a Skipper's Key square knot (which was only made between 1942-1944). The Ranger Award knot is similarly rare, I've only ever heard of about 4 documented finds of it (one in a display case at a council office, which indicates it's a real knot to begin with). Original BSA ranks that were combined with the scribe and bugler patches (which also have silver variants to indicate patrol leaders) will also shoot into the $500 range on a regular basis. Every once in a while you get a fluke though. Don't feel like digging up the link at the moment, but right around Christmas someone stuck one of the current issue of Eagle medals up with the current patch and knot, a set which usually sells for $25 on eBay, and got $220 for it...In other words, make sure you know what you're buying first, in all cases. Sometimes it's better to wait. Picked up one of the mylar Eagle badges from 1985 for $17 because I decided not to outbid someone who had already laid down $35 for one the night before. Also helps to know how common things are on the market. All Eagle patches back to the second version are on the market on a regular basis, and you'll be hard pressed to go a week without finding a specific variant if for some reason it's not already on there. Seen two of the original go up as well. Only things I haven't seen come back out of what I've seen appear in the first place (as there's a lot that never shows up) have been the original rank insignia that's combined with the badges of office and the aforementioned Skipper's Key knot. What they say on eBay when you sign up is true, you just have to know how much you're willing to pay for it and stick to it.

http://www.sageventure.com/scoutingcentury/eagle/robbins3.htm I picked up a medal much like that one with its certificate at auction last fall. The metal parts are all in great shape, but something's got me wondering on the ribbon. As you can tell in the picture, the red is supposed to be on the left side when looking at the medal from the front. Looking at my own medal and the pictures of every other medal on the site, there has been no variation in that theme at any point. However, the 1934 Eagle medal I have has the BLUE stripe on the left. At first I wasn't sure if maybe someone had deliberately reversed the ribbon at some point, but the white stripe on the front of the medal has been pierced in a fashion indicating it once held a palm, and there are no similar holes on the reverse (which would normally be the front of the ribbon). Is this a minor error of some sort, or was there something going on at the time (perhaps associated with WWII?) that might have prompted someone to reverse the ribbon?

From what I understand from having read around here, the Chartered Organization can make any call it wants about membership requirements, as long as they're no more liberal than the BSA standards (e.g. if a church decided all members of its units had to be Catholic, they'd all have to be Catholic). Personally, I would have sided with the adult leadership up until the weapon came on the scene. Whether or not to expel from the troop over it is subject for debate, but I would definitely say that he deserves far more than the standard first-offense treatment, he needs to be taught that pulling a weapon on his companion is WRONG, regardless of the circumstances. Being a case of bullying, it's not very likely that his life was being threatened, after all...

I've seen a lot of advocacy for them here, but speaking as a patch collector one thing rather concerns me about it. While I can certainly understand people using velcro and the like for quick changes when wearing multiple hats, the applying of such to things like rank insignia and merit badges on the other hand seems a bit worrisome. I remember picking up a merit badge sash as part of a lot where the boy had sewn on about the first 11 merit badges, then used a double-sided sticky substance to stick on the rest, of which I located about 8, 3 of which were off the sash (and considering that it was from someone who made Eagle in the mid to late 70s, indicates that a few were missing altogether, as the requisite number at the time was 24). Additionally, said no-sew solution to the merit badge sash effectively destroyed the sash and discolored a number of the other patches in the lot as well. Other alternatives such as hot glue basically mean that the patch is going to be destroyed when it's removed from its present location. While I understand that most people don't like sewing patches all that much, if there's any interest at all in passing them on to posterity it would seem that sewing is the best way to go. Besides, I've yet to see a more effective way to keep patches attached than with a good sewing job, personally.

Hey there! Lucked out and found a pair for $16 with shipping on eBay, came in just the other day. Need to put the hem back in them, but otherwise they turned out to be a good fit. Thanks for the advice!

Whether or not Eagle MBs should be taught at a fair I leave up for debate, but I do like them for the way they make merit badges available for those who are interested in badges, but have a hard time finding a counselor to work with them on. I wouldn't have been able to do Cinematography or Genealogy if I hadn't done them there at a merit badge fair. There's also always the more middle of the road approach in devoting the entire day to doing a single badge as well. I earned Geology when the USGS was holding an exhibition. Took the whole day to finish the requirements, and we still had to bring some prepwork with us (e.g. a catalogued rock collection). I earned my Radio merit badge at a district spring camporee that just happened to coincide with the Jamboree On The Air that year because I stayed the entire day and worked with one of the gentlemen who was helping put it on at that location who happened to also be a MB counselor for it.

> Does this mean that some troops elect Historian, Bugler, Quartermaster, etc? In my troop growing up we held elections for all boy positions every year in September, with the exception of Den Chief. Only had two Den Chiefs from the troop while I was a Boy Scout, and the only requirements for that was that you had to be at least 2nd class and have a Den that was willing to take you, the SM would pretty much auto-approve at that point unless he had some gross objection. One thing that DID result from having all the positions elected was that in my troop we had a dynasty of sorts where one boy became quartermaster, then as he moved on to other things his younger brother held onto the position for about 5 years before passing it on to a third younger sibling (combined they held it for about 11 years or so). Kind of started my own by holding Scribe for 4 years and then handing the torch off to my little brother for the remaining three before the troop folded (the last 6-12 months or so it was basically staying open so that I could turn 18 in the troop I started with). While I don't necessarily see the problem with this (the boys who held said positions were continually reelected because they got the job done and did it well, after all), what's the take on it from some of the other leaders here?

> - The Counselor concerned won't sign off on this Scout's work. > At that time the MBC asked him to show him the materials he had written for section 8 which the MBC had approved and signed-off on 5 months ago. The card was signed, at least according to the first post. Therefore the signature is binding, no?

Well, how old are they, first off? No parent myself, but it seems that under the age of 13 or so it's best to keep an eye on them, even if it's just to make sure they're not handing out too much information. I remember when I was about 12 or so I got hit up by a rather creepy guy on AIM because I had my name for an SN and my city and age in my profile. These days I don't worry so much about it, as I know how to protect myself, but at that age it's a different matter. That aside, it's not too hard to land on some unsavory stuff by accident if you don't know what you're doing (and even easier if you do). If I recall correctly, doesn't the main account on AOL have the option/ability to check other accounts? As to things like LiveJournal, that's just the reality of the situation, really. You can try creating an account of your own and asking them to put you on their list so you can at least see some of the hidden postings, but it's possible to filter within your friends group so only certain people within the group can't see things. If all else fails, a scout is trustworthy. Have a family discussion, lay down some ground rules and come to an agreement on what is reasonable and what isn't. That way the kids understand what your concerns are, and you at least give the impression of being concerned about what their thoughts are in the matter (which makes them that much more likely to comply).

I was always taught that the hard and fast rule in the BSA regarding signing things off is that once it's signed, it's permanently signed, and shame on the person who signed it if the boy didn't actually do the work, logic being that it's not fair to the boy to say he's completed something and then revoke it for circumstances that were beyond his control in the first place. Granted, it's not fair to just let him off without doing the work, but it's the lesser of two evils.

I collect most anything BSA I can get my hands on, myself. Haven't had access to much in the way of CSPs or lodge flaps (only have them for the ones I've been registered in - NCAC and Allohak Council in WV. May be getting a DS one soon, though), occasionally get a community or state strip, though. Mostly I work on the rank and position insignia, currently have a nigh complete collection stretching back to when they stopped making the scouts fold the patches to sew them on (about 1954 or so?). I started my collection by talking to my troop's awards chairman when I was an SPL back in the day and offered to buy out her stock of 1970s and 80s insignia that she had, got pretty much a complete set for about $1/patch. eBay is also a good resource for picking up trading stock if you are just starting out. Even if you buy patches when you're on your own time though, it's still best to observe the rule that no money be exchanged when at a formal trading function. If it's a price guide you're interested in, I have an Excel spreadsheet that I keep that I'd be willing to pass on to give you an idea of the current value of things (compiled it about two to three weeks ago). Send an e-mail if interested.

hehehe...I remember when I was a Wolf, all the guys in my den and I attended the same elementary school, so den meetings were basically just held in the school library right after class ended every Tuesday. Likewise, I remember proudly wearing the uniform all day on those days, too. hehehe...

I've never heard of a unit not wearing them, personally. As others have stated, they've always been a signature part of the uniform, and in the eyes of many are about as essential as the shirt. I know that in my old district growing up (Prince William in NCAC, now Occoquan district) about every unit had a custom-designed neckerchief that they used. My unit presented its neckerchief at Tenderfoot as a way to get the boys motivated (they were naturally allowed to wear the standard red/gold one until then, so it hardly constitutes hazing the way, say, withholding epaulets might).

Virginia and West Virginia also have coral snakes and water moccasins to deal with. Those in the same family as well, or would either require special treatment as per the end of the post?

By the time I was going through scouting the BSA had long disavowed the "suck and spit" method, but cutting Xs over the bite marks and using suction cups to try to suck out the venom (if such resources are available) WAS the method they were teaching. Looking over the Webelos handbook last week, it said that that method is nothing but a wive's tale, and that now you should basically just not do anything and call 911 ASAP (as though that's any good when you're 4 miles out on a hike!). It makes some mention of a brand name snakebite kit, but says nothing on its use, just that it CAN be used. What methods are people teaching these days?

I feel you pain, man. I've been filling in for the 1st year Webelos Den Leader for my pack here and there, and we've been trying to get them working on Readyman. To say it's a chore getting them to pay attention is an understatement. They seem to get into it when I have them doing activities, but they can't remember the verbal information at all half the time. Case in point: I taught the boys how to tie splints one week. The next week we were trying some cases to see how well their judgement worked, and to teach them to look for other problems that might exist as well (especially since requirements such as being able to treat hurry cases usually can be strung together: Someone who's stopped breathing may have had their heart stop as well, so teach them to check for a pulse, while they're checking for air and treat as appropriate). Well, one such case I created for the boys was them running across the street and one of them breaks his leg because he hit a pothole while he was running across. The boy's solution? Drop everything and splint it. You see someone with a broken leg, what do you do? Splint it and carry him. Is there an effective way to teach them that in some cases there is more to treat than is obvious at first glance, and that sometimes it's better to just get a person out of the immediate danger before treating things? Or am I just overloading the boys here (they're Webelos, after all)? One of the boys I already know would be prone to try to do this stuff if the opportunity arose, so I'm trying to make sure that if they're going to do it, they at least do it properly and don't just do one part which may or may not put the victim at further risk based on the boy's ability level...

I missed 3 pins while a Webelos scout (Athlete and Forester because I didn't have time to finish their requirements, Aquanaut because I couldn't swim well enough). Sure, it leads to some wistful thinking now and then, but I never let it bog down the rest of my experience. Out of 6 boys in my den (3 of whom (myself included) had been together since Tigers), one transferred out, and one of my denmates from the beginning stayed in about 6 months to a year. One never even joined because he didn't want to have to camp without his parents. I stayed on the whole 7 years. In the end, it's not so much what they achieve in Cub Scouting that determines whether they will continue into/be successful in Boy Scouting, though it may prove to be a strong motivator. It's how you prepare them for the evolution in how the program is structured (which is the whole reason for the Webelos program in the first place). The instant a den leader starts making the meetings a chore is when you start to lose the boys.

I favor using baseball pages as well. Any time you apply an adhesive to something you run the risk of discoloring and physically degrading it. From the perspective of validity of the records, however, I've never heard of any problems stemming from laminating the cards (once the badge is finished, of course).

A scout is trustworthy. I wouldn't even ask about the criminal proceedings and simply ask him if he feels he has met the scout spirit requirement, and then have him explain to me why. Taking him at his word, I'd sign the requirements off and then see about a waiver from National to postpone the board until his case has been heard before a court of law. After he has been convicted/exonerated, let the board convene and take this into account as they see fit. If he's guilty, and has not made sufficient effort to make amends for it, the board will be able to justly deny him. If he's innocent, it gives him a fair chance. It would truly be a shame to deny someone something they've truly earned on the basis that we didn't want to create a bad image for ourselves. Just because he was at the scene of a crime doesn't automatically make him guilty. A good friend of my little brother's that I knew from my church's youth group when I was in high school was convicted on "possession of a bomb." What was the real story? He and a group of friends were in possession of some black powder (one member of the group was legally allowed to have it, and thus nobody was breaking the law). One person saw the police and worried, which caused the rest of the group to run, abandoning said powder. Thus a 16-year-old was caught alone with the substance, and they tried him on that basis. What was he guilty of? Following a police officer's orders, and nothing more. Had the rest of the group stayed, nobody would have gotten in trouble at all. As I said, a conditional approval with a postponement of the board would be the best way to go.

Back in the day I used to have a complete uniform, and wore it proudly to every scouting event I went to. Then I turned 18, school and work picked up, and it got packed away. These days I don't know where my old uniform pants and belt have escaped to (or if said pants still fit, for that matter), and being a student I don't have the extra money on hand to throw $50 into a new pair of pants. I do, however, have a blue suit that matches the Cub Scout epaulets I'm wearing rather well. I was wondering what people thought about using that as an alternative until I can get a real pair of uniform pants again, or if I should just wait and continue using jeans until such time.

Or they can just forgo a camp patch and wear it instead as something that stands out. I can recall seeing hundreds of boys with C&O Canal trail patches in my time, I was the only one I ever saw wearing the World Conservation award (a bit surprising, really, since the only thing required for it that you don't do for Eagle already as it is is Soil and Water Conservation...).