Kahuna

Joined Boy Scouts in 1954. I know the world is a different place and some of the things we did in Scouting are just not possible anymore, but still I don't see much real change for the better. Patrol camping: We used to hike or ride bikes, without adults, miles away from civilization to camp for a few days. Summer camp: Camp today is unrecognizable from what is was in the Fifties and Sixties. The only merit badges we could earn there were outdoor ones. No computer MB, Cit in the Nation, World, etc. Why not do that at home and have fun at camp. OA: Goes right back to summer camp. OA was started as a summer camp program. Firecrafters and Mic-O-Say were, too. Every camp had some kind of honor program in the early days. When I was a Scout and camp staffer, all the important OA stuff took place at summer camp. The boys were tapped out, took the Ordeal that night and next day, then came back to their troop decked out with their arrow. Can't do that now. It would take too much time away from merit badges. Advancement: Nobody ever encouraged us to become Eagle. It was something you wanted and you figured out how to do it. My parents were in favor of it, and would support me in doing what it took, but if I hadn't done it myself, I wouldn't have made it. I was 17. There weren't a lot of 13 year old Eagles. Advancement happened, as SSScout says, almost automatically because of troop activities. You had to go out and hunt up MB counselors if you wanted Citizenship or Law MB. That's part of what the program was designed for. Youth protection: Again, wasn't a problem, I guess because of community values in leader selection. We went on a lot of campouts with one adult leader. It's different today, but we have really overcomplicated the issue with G2SS, separate bathrooms and such. Does anybody know of a molestation taking place in a camp shower? I guess it has happened, Sandusky is an example from elsewhere, but Scouts and leaders wouldn't ignore it if it happened. I don't know, this one is complicated, but the current solution does not encourage trust of the leaders. Other stuff: Way too much to hash over here.

Camps have their rules. Troop leaders have their rules. I have often told Scouts to disregard certain camp rules for specific reasons (to make sure they understand they are not being told to disregard the camp rules, period). This has led to many interesting discussions with camp directors over the years, but I was never thrown out of a camp. Might be different in the 21st Century version of Scouting.

>>Then what do they work for?

"has the BSA lost sight of it's original vision and purpose?" I think so. Although the purpose of Scouting has always been to use camping and the other program features to attract boys so that their character can be built and their physical abilities be improved, in which case it doesn't matter what the program actually is as long as it accomplishes those goals. I would argue that the BSA has really taken its' eye off the ball, though. The outdoors, camping and hiking have always been the mainstays and they worked pretty well in the past. All you have to do is look at a troop of Scouts and observe the number of overweight boys and leaders to see we are not accomplishing those objectives. How many boys and leaders will not be able to go to the Summit next year because of their BMI?

Don't forget to wear your Eagle lapel pin today, if you are an Eagle Scout. http://tinyurl.com/bsf4xtq

I've 90% ID'd the man on the front row, second from left, as Harold F. Pote, Director of Personnel and later Region 10 Executive. The man between Pote and Goodman could be Arthur Schuck, later Chief Scout Executive. Man on the far left standing might be Dr. George Fisher, Deputy Chief Scout Executive. Fisher did hold the Silver Buffalo in 1932. One of the other men may be E.W. Beckman. According to William Murray, in The History of the BSA, those six men were members of the Coordinating Committee. I'm not sure and definitely can't ID the other man.

I have a January, 1932 picture of members of the National Staff, labeled Coordination Committee and Secretary, Home Office, BSA. I know that James E. West is the center standing figure and that E. Urner Goodman is seated at far right. I recognize the man to the left of Goodman, but can't name him. I think one of the men may be Dr. George Fisher, Deputy to West, but can't be sure. Any IDs will be greatly appreciated. http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m530/Kahuna46/natlstaff0001.jpg

G2SS would expand exponentially. Bigger than a New York phone book.

Words of "wisdom" from old-timers usually begin with: "It all started to go downhill when . . . " So, I'll spare you that. When I was a Scout and camp staffer, back in the '50s and '60s, OA was a regular part of Scout camp. Tap outs were followed immediately with the Ordeal. The candidates were led back to their campsites, in silence, and packed up what they were allowed for their night in woods. Next day, they were seen around camp, wearing their wooden arrows around their necks, doing work that the camp director had determined, usually something that could be seen for a while, not cleaning or other chores. Then, they went back to their campsite, showered and put on their uniforms, still silent, and went off to a "secret" campfire circle where the ceremonies took place. After a cracker barrel, they returned to camp, proudly wearing a brand new white sash with a red arrow. The mystique was very powerful and every kid wanted to be in OA. Sometime in the seventies, somebody decided that this was interfering with camp program (read merit badge classes), took staff away from their duties and thus banished the Ordeal from summer camp. No more mystique, except perhaps the tap-out or calling-out ceremony campfire itself. Now, it's true that some lodges did very little in the off season, but others did. The point is, everyone could see the OA in action at summer camp. Today, they do their service largely in their own weekends and nobody sees the results. The only thing non-members see is the lodge flap and members wearing their sashes to courts of honor and other places where we never did. Coincidentally, OA enthusiasm has been on the decline. Or maybe not coincidentally.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ . . .

My thoughts: Here they go again.

"Invidious" I'm gonna see if I can get that one on Netflix.

Great suggestion.

Wearing the sash over the belt was a tradition in councils where I've been over a long period of time. I'm not sure when the prohibition came along, but I don't see any problem with wearing the sash over the belt. Show offy? Yeah, but the Scout uniform is designed to show off the insignia of awards the kids have earned. Can it be overdone? Yes, but usually that's the adults.

Okay, you got me with "yellow cards" in boot camp. As a retired USAF guy, I had to look that up. False. See Snopes. http://www.snopes.com/military/stresscards.asp

The professionals and the council higher-ups don't give a rat's patootie about Sea Scouts because it doesn't bring in the money or the membership and it never will. Cub Scouts is easy membership numbers for them. Sea Scouting for adults is like a mild derangement syndrome. That's why I love it. Everybody is doing it because they really love it and are willing to spend the time and money to do it. And it really is expensive.

Kudu: You certainly have my permission. I like the way you have taken the points and turned them into inquiry subjects. Please keep us posted on how they are received and what kind of responses you get. Side note: Sorry I did not post "Spoilers" at the top of my post. Didn't even think about it.

I guess I have to weigh in on this thread, since I have rather strong feelings about Enders Game. As a sci-fi fan since my early teens, I loved the book and am eagerly awaiting the movie. I thought Asa Butterfield will be great as Ender and I really don't know the other youth actors, but I'm sure Card made sure they're a good match. However, I cannot imagine the book as a guide to youth leadership (or for adult leadership of youth). I'm not sure what the Marines are using it to develop, but that's an entirely different matter. I should also mention that Master and Commander, books and movie, are excellent youth leadership training materials and would certainly use them if I were a Boy Scout unit leader or trainer. On the other hand, I would not want my son or the neighborhood boys, for that matter, in a troop guided by the principles of Enders Game. - Enders is science fiction. It takes place in a future time and under circumstances not imaginable in any Scout setting. - The story is not about leadership; it is about selection and survival of the fittest. The adults do not lead: they manage and create situations in which boys will rise to the level required or die. The boys are pre-selected for the type of leadership abilities required by a specific set of circumstances. They are then left to their own devices, even allowed to kill each other in the quest. - Ender is not an example for youth leadership in Scouting. He is perfect for his situation and turns out to be the "chosen one," but he is not even told that the battle against the Buggers is the real thing. In short, he is picked for certain abilities, thrown into a meat grinder and manipulated to succeed. Nowhere in the novel is there an example of adult leadership, other than to set up the grueling and exploitative games the kids must play. - Finally, the ending is absolutely devastating to Ender. His discovery on the alien planet and the revelations that come with it would completely destroy most young people. A fine book. A great story for youth or adults. A moral lesson for adults (that most boys would not grasp). But a leadership tool for Scouts? No, not under any circumstances. In fact, if anything, it would be something I would discuss with boys who have read it to make sure they really got the point that what was done to Ender was evil. A necessary evil, they believed, but evil none the less. Strong letter to follow.

Not JUST SR-7 any more. It's all over Florida now. They are presenting them at regattas regularly. Our council has approved it for units here. We have a set of instructions on how to get it and who approves it, etc.

Thanks Eagle92. I notice they refer to it as an "award," but it's supposed to be a service order like OA. I'm still a bit confused. I'm so far inclined to support it and I guess it will get refined as it goes along. OA started in the same way, of course. One council adopted it and then more.

This seems to be an OA type of entity intended to be of service in Sea Scouting, since boys can't wear OA flaps and girls can't be OA. It offers a rather classy insignia http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.356692921025698.96690.353763341318656&type=3. Some councils have adopted this and approved it for Sea Scout wear in the council. I have heard it is being presented as an "award" at some regional regattas. If any SS people are familiar with Golden Dragon, what do you know about it and what is your take on it as a benefit to Sea Scouting? I'm not with the uniform police, just curious as to whether this is something I should promote in my contacts with Skippers.

I think he stands more than a chance. It's probably going to be a close election, but Obama will not attract the starry-eyed folk who turned out in droves in '08. True believers on both sides will be out in force. It will depend on what the independents do. IMHO, if you don't want another four years of even worse troubles in this country, Romney is the only sensible candidate. Is he lovable? No. Is he qualified to be president? Yes. Would he help get us out the Obama morass? Probably.

"I'm unaware of an age limit for staff" I don't think the BSA has one, but this old body does.

I'm supposed to be staffing the Sea Scouting booth.

Visiting at this jamboree will be limited to a small area not inside the jambo site. If you want to visit someone, you make arrangements for them to meet you there. You will not be allowed into the jamboree itself. There is also a fee for visitors. I'm not happy with what I'm hearing about this one. I'll be too old for the next one. I hope it works out, but I don't want to be a guinea pig (at a high price).