Kahuna

I've read the same and likewise don't recall where. Wilder was not truly rich by the standards of the time, but he had some income from his father's business and his own art (although I don't think he ever made much from that - not that he wasn't a good artist). He pretty much lived and travelled on that income. I think he funded a lot of Scouting in Hawai'i in the early days and wouldn't be surprised if he funded some of Sea Scouting. I know he paid his own way to and from those East Coast meetings. I think I have mentioned before that one of the old-time professionals that I have information on was a Scout Executive who, when the depression hit funding in the 1930's, worked for essentially nothing and supported his family by coaching at Vanderbilt part of the time. Things were just way different back then.

As indicated above, he was present and spoke at the 2d Biennial Conference of Scout Executives, where he is listed at the end of the report as a member of the Executive Staff, National Headquarters. The distinction was not as fine in those days, since many councils were headed by commissioners, not professionals. However, he was a professional. I know he didn't receive a salary, or merely a nominal one if at all. He was the only Chief Sea Scout, which title he held until his death. BTW, I have included his information at findagrave.com. James Austin Wilder, Oahu Cemetary, Honolulu, Hawai'i.

Just a couple of observations about Supreme Court Justices. Liberal and conservative don't matter much, because many justices start out as more or less strict constructionists (that is, they believe the Constitution means what it says and shouldn't be interpreted according to the political beliefs of the Court), but as time goes on, they are influenced by the atmosphere inside the Beltway and start listening all the Great Ideas floating around. Another factor is intelligence. Many smart nominees have been "Borked," notoriously of course, Judge Bork, one of the smartest nominees ever, because they had too much of a track record and made some elements nervous. Therefore, it's much easier to get a less intelligent individual on the Court. A real shame. Of course, at the moment, politics has reared it's even uglier than usual head because the Democrats want to block the President from getting anything he wants, no matter what it is.

Thank you, I'm on it. May as well have them all!

Not to be contentious, but driving over the speed limit is a civil violation, like getting a parking ticket. You can't be put in jail for that. Definitely not all crimes are equal in the eyes of the law. Not all Scout Oath violations are the same either: a Scout is trustworthy, but if your wife asks if her butt is too big, are you going to tell her the absolute truth? :-)

Couple more items of interest: I have bought copies of Jack-knife Cookery and the Wilders of Waikiki for my library. Can't find a copy of Pine Tree Patrol, but that's a real golden oldie. The National Sea Scout Committee is working on some biographical info on Wilder and has contacted me about doing some fact-checking on the ground in Hawai'i. That will help me with accreditation in getting to some of the mustier archives. BTW, I just learned that the Horton who co-wrote the Sea Scout Manual with Wilder was the same Horton who was a co-founder of Alpha Phi Omega, the Scouting fraternity. I met him at a convention in 1962. Also discovered that the last photo of FDR walking was with Wilder at Bear Lake, NY, at Scouting function. I'm hoping to get a copy of the photo.

I agree we should all encourage everyone in Scouting to follow the Oath and Law, just as we should hope that all ministers will follow the Bible, the Dharma, or whatever, but it's unrealistic to expect that they will. I just try to keep my unit going on the straight and narrow and I don't mind calling attention to councils that are doing big time cheating. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, just don't let it get you down. The big picture is as good as it ever was and your unit is the only one that really counts. You can help a few hundred kids in one unit over the years and that will pay off for you.

While your distress symbol may be appropriate, I agree it probably won't convey the message to the average person. A much better avenue is the one I use: the pen is mightier than the sword. Write to your congressional reps, the President and the op-ed section of your paper. Also, key to remember is that the Supreme Court has not preempted state laws on this subject. That is to say your legislature can pass a law that makes it illegal in your state to do this. So write to all those guys, too. Several sites, such as NRA, have automatic email functions that will let you hit all your elected officials with one letter. Again, that's what I'm doing. Good luck!!!

You've had some good input and I can't add much to it, but I will offer these comments: The Patrol Method is the CORE of everything. All the other parts of the program revolve around it. If you don't make it work, you are wasting your time (well, not altogether, but you get my drift). The best way to improve the patrol method in your troop is a hard one, but quite effective. Find a summer camp where the boys must prepare at least 2 meals a day in their campsite and live by patrols. I've done this twice in my Scouting career and both times it made a patrol method troop out of one which was not. It will be the most miserable week of your life, unless you went to Paris Island for boot camp, but it WILL pay off. The patrol method requires great discipline on the part of the adults. Takes a fine hand to stay out of patrol affairs until murder or mayhem is about to take place. But in the end, it pays off and you can truly be an armchair Scoutmaster (again, not really, but it's closer than you think). Good luck!

I'm just curious. Some good advice was given here re contacting the SE ASAP and then preventing more trouble while awaiting their intervention. Has anyone actually had a YP protection issue like this where you contacted the SE? If so, what did they do? I know how they handled these years ago, but thank God have not had any incidents in many years that required professional assistance.

I haven't read the opinion, but I know it was 5-4. Even O'conner didn't go for it. I just don't see our property rights protection under the 5th Amendment and the Constitution in general can permit government to take private land for purely monetary reasons: eg, they can earn more in tax revenues. Pathetic. Favors the rich over the poor, the influential over the everyday guy and gives the government more power that it doesn't frapping need. We have probably two SC vacancies coming up this summer. I hope the President has some people lined up who can find their fannies with both hands. God knows we need 'em. I'm disgusted!

I dunno. I have never seen a CO that really gave a flip as long as the unit wasn't causing them trouble or bad PR. The only COR I ever had that had a scouting background never did anything positive for us and tried to steal troop equipment for the church that sponsored us. I've heard other Scouters tell the same story. That's how I came to the conclusion that it's just better to keep good relations with them, stay out of their way and use a separate 501©(3) corporation that I can control to own the equipment. You pretty much have to do that with boats, anyway, so I just take everything in the name of that corporation and lease it to the unit for $1.00. You only go to the COR if you need someone to go to bat on the Executive Board for you. And, since the corporation can only convey the equipment to another 501©(3), people who donate funds or goods are protected against the possibility that I would run off with it.

I was thinking when I saw the news on TV: "Thank God I won't have to fight my way thru the flag-burning hordes everytime I walk the streets." I really think we have bigger issues in this country for the legislatures to worry about than flag burning. I have served under that flag during wartime, wear it on my uniform and proudly fly it at my home, but for some nutjob protester to burn it means absolutely nothing, IMHO. We should be amending the Constitution for only dire situations and not for problems that aren't problems. If it gets thru the Senate, it will probably be ratified and the same politicians who are out there calling each other names will be breaking their arms patting themselves on the back.

I noticed the same thing. The boy was afraid of strangers because of all the warnings he'd been given. But what can you do? You have to train them to be wary of strangers, but at the same time let them know there are certain exceptions. It's a problem since kids do not make fine distinctions.

I'm going to side with Juris. Loosey-goosey is the way Scouting started. It's the reason it has been successful. You can say it's not the BSA program if you want, but in my experience, it's the way most good troops function. My troops never got anything out of the camporees and we generally had plenty of Eagle projects going on to get them out for community service. I have no use for a committee that's going to tell me what to do, unless they have more experience than I do (and I have even more than Juris). They can certainly fire me and that's their call. So can the COR. What's not BSA (assuming you are following G2SS and I didn't see any red flags there) about boys camping, earning ranks, making Eagle and being leaders in a boy-run troop? Do you not make suggestions to your PLC? Do you not pick a candidate for SPL? The only reservation I can make in all this is to say that Juris' plan is not for newbies. But I would also say being an SM is not for newbies. Training? You bet! Everybody should should get as much as they possibly can. But if I'm the SM, the most important training they can have will come from me. Nobody in Dallas or Council HQ knows more about my troop than I do. I know this isn't a popular view here, but just look at the good troops with lots of kids in your area and tell me they aren't doing pretty much what Juris says. It's also interesting that Juris says something I don't see much, which is get to know your boys and have them like you. I can visit a troop and tell in 10 minutes whether the kids like their leaders or not. If they do, it's usually a good troop. If they like you, they'll follow you anywhere and not let you down. Juris claims 30 years experience and 90 boys. It's hard to argue against success.

With a little work, you can achieve both, but given a choice of only one, I will go with manner every time. The impression of perfect uniform can be wrecked completely by bad behavior.

I've finished "The Wilders of Waikiki" by Kimo Wilder's daughter. He was a very interesting man to say the least. He lived a somewhat Bohemian lifestyle, although he was always considered respectable. He certainly contributed a great deal to Scouting, both in the U.S. and Hawai'i (HI was still a Territory in his time). He was, however, somewhat overweight and had a tendency to excess. His high blood pressure, brought on by his final Scouting trip, the 1930 Jamboree in England, gave him his first stroke. He pretty much recovered, but then, after a visit from a local Scout official (not identified as to professional or volunteer), he was so angry that it brought on another stroke. Most of us have probably come close to the same experience at one time or another! At any rate, he lived about 4 years, became blind near the end (he was an artist, remember), died and was given a big funeral with Boy Scout and Sea Scout honor guards. Much of his work - he did portraits - was destroyed after his death, but some is still around in Honolulu. I now have to track down and see how much of it I can find. Fascinating man and I am more determined than ever to get him memorialized in Hawai'i. Some of his descendants still live there and I will be trying to track them down.

Sorry, as apparently the only Buddhist in the group, I was asleep at the switch. The link posted earlier, giving the comparisons between Buddhism and Christianity was pretty apt, I think. I would mention that Buddha was a teacher and Jesus was a teacher. Buddhists revere teachers of dharma (how to be Buddhist), but don't worship them as gods. Christians, of course, believe Jesus to be the son of and a part of God. There are many statues of Buddha around, mostly in Asia, but they are there simply as a reminder to us to meditate and aspire to achieve enlightment. We certainly believe in a supreme being, although there are some differences within Buddhism (as there are Christianity) about the exact nature and workings of that being. I would also mention - going way back in the discussion here to what happened to British Scouting in the 1960's - that it was at that time that Lady B-P pretty much denounced those changes and parted ways with the SA. If you were at the 1969 Jamboree you heard her criticisms. She ended up leaving quite a lot B-P material to the BSA that otherwise would have gone to the British Association.

I think most troops are not able to offer big-time experiences, especially for the older boys. It's one reason Venturing, including Sea Scouting, is popular with the older ones. Many Scoutmasters are reluctant to see older boys get involved in these because they see it as a loss to the troop. Usually, the boys will multiple register and stay with the troop, too. It definitely is true that most troops lack imagination. Our troop was in a relatively affluent area, but we still got kids out to raise money for the big activities. We always went to summer camp in the mountains and once we even went from Florida to summer camp at Owassippe. We also put together a European trip, most of which was in England and Scotland. We made contact with British leaders and set up home hospitality or hostels, so we made it as cheap as possible. I am always seeing mainland Scout groups in Hawai'i, for summer camp and spring break jaunts. Most leaders just think: "there's no way," and that's the end of it. Where there's a will there's a way.

Again, indeed! I'm only 39, was SM when I was 8 or 9. :-)

What a wasted opportunity to show off scouting to the public. Somebody let those boys down by not teaching the proper attitude of pride, respect and courteousness. A real shame. My thoughts, exactly!!

How 'bout Jeffrey Deaver? He wrote The Bone Collector and a bunch of other good murder mysteries. I read everything he writes.

Indeed!

FB: Sorry for the delay in responding, but I've been travelling. Your info pretty much supports everything I know about Sea Scouting history. Only differs slightly in that Kimo Wilder was an old buddy of FDR, who was Secretary of the Navy around WWI. I know the FDR also played a role in starting Sea Scouting in the U.S. Sooner or later I'll piece it all together. Thanks!

Not really a Boy Scout wedding, but, being in Florida at the moment, I had the opportunity to go to the wedding of one of "my" former Scouts, now age 30 (how time flies). Two other former Scouts from the troop were in the wedding and yet another in attendance. It was a real trip to see those guys after probably ten years. The groom and one other were Eagle Scouts. Father of the groom was a troop leader, also an Eagle Scout. I rode over with another former Scoutmaster. Needless to say, a lot of reminiscing went on. He married a really beautiful girl, too. He was always a good kid, but you never know how they will turn out. It's always a good feeling to know that they actually remember you fondly after all those years. There is a brighter side to all this stuff, guys, if you hang in there!